Privilege and Responsibility

[PseudoSABR]

 

Sorry I'm not moved by the Kyle Korver missive. It might have struck a chord with you because you come from white privlege. I don't so it's not my cross to bear.

I grew up in trailers and rented homes, and attended a half dozen public schools as my parents sought employment moving from state to state. My parents never graduated college and were a secretary and a carpenter; they weren't able to "buy" a home (meaning take out a mortgage) until I was in high school, and to their regret, could not help me pay for college. They didn't provide me with wealth, but they did teach me empathy, to which I am eternally grateful.   

 

Yet, I still had privilege because I was a white male, grew up with two parents who had sense of work ethic which they could pass on, and had parents savvy enough to rent homes in good school districts. (And because I worked my ass off, I'm uber privileged now with a several degrees, including law, still haven't lost the empathy though).  

 

You know what they say about assumptions. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sorry I'm not moved by the Kyle Korver missive. It might have struck a chord with you because you come from white privlege. I don't so it's not my cross to bear.

 

I get the sense you don't know what white privilege is.  (Understandable...it's not well argued)  You also, clearly, have no idea what kind of world young black men grow up in.  If you want to be educated, you can ask, but you're going to have to come in humble.

[biggentleben]

 

I get the sense you don't know what white privilege is.  (Understandable...it's not well argued)  You also, clearly, have no idea what kind of world young black men grow up in.  If you want to be educated, you can ask, but you're going to have to come in humble.

 

I was not ready the first time I met with a Native elder, and he attempted to talk with me about the life young men of his tribe experienced. It's something that truly for someone who has not experienced it is as foreign as walking through life backwards. I've had some amazing mentors in the Sioux tribe who have poured into me as I've reached out in preparation to raise five children with Native heritage. They've been very patient with me, taking the time to let me truly understand the whole of where they come from. Until you get THERE, you really cannot understand.

 

I can honestly and openly say that no matter how many poverty-driven African-American teammates I had in college or friends who explained their background, I've never truly understood them in the same way, and I can truly say that I could not fully understand or express the black experience, and I'd have no standing to do such, but I also feel that so many of those dictating what SHOULD be the black experience have never, ever taken the time to get to that point of truly knowing where they come from. Just having gotten that experience with another race/culture, I know it's not something one can just aspire to through press clippings, friends, or even just listening about it.

[ewen21]

 

I get the sense you don't know what white privilege is.  (Understandable...it's not well argued)  You also, clearly, have no idea what kind of world young black men grow up in.  If you want to be educated, you can ask, but you're going to have to come in humble.

Fair enough, but I actually did teach as a NY state certfied teacher (have been for almost 2 years) in an inner city public school that was about 80% African American.  I worked in two residential treatment facilites in upstate NY where most of the staff and students were African American (for several years).  I also lived in Mt. Vernon, NY (just outside of the Bronx for several years when I went to grad school (mostly blacks lived in my apartment and I took public transportation).  I hate having to put my "credentials" out there, but you are wrong to assume that I haven't ever been close to it.  I was for nearly a decade of my life.

 

All that said, the Korver article loses me when he talks about "quiet racism"

"Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time."

 

Sorry, but I feel that way and that would make me racist according to him.  This idea that anyone who doesn't agree 100% with what he wrote is part of the problem is troubling to me.  There are plenty of things in there to debate and he wants to simply shut it down.

 

I am damn tired of race being front and center.  We got it with Covington and it was a whole lot of smoke.  Smollett put in out there and that was complete BS.  The black dude in Kansas putting up racist graffiti, etc....etc....etc...

Then you hear about the NFL players kneeling because there are "bodies in the streets" from cops killing so many black people.  The numbers simply don't bear it out and about 2X more blacks were killed by blacks in Chicago along than how many blacks were killed by cops.  Michael Bennett went front and center and was able to pretty much lie about what went down in Vegas and when the video came out he lost no credibility.  He is still that NFL SJW.  I want to have empathy and tend to have empathy in most circumstances until I smell BS.  This fluff piece by Korver is all talk and it portrays blacks as victims.  This kind of victimology isn't going help them.  Nor will it help to be one to just sit, listen and nod our heads when we listen to one side of the issue.  There are many sides to the issue and I think that Korver's piece is more self-serving that it is poignant.  It is damn hard to watch a sports talk show program without race being heavily injected into the discussion (which is why I never watch)

 

 

You can buy it lock stock and barrel if you want, but I see problems with the Korver piece

 

[ewen21]

 

White *people* have exploited and sold black people down the road historically. Party hasn’t played much of a role, barring a few twitches of decency now and again (from both parties, mind you).

But today, only one party is saying “black lives matter”. Say what you want about historical awfulness but I care more about today than 25 years ago.

Black Live Matter supported a false narrative.  Read Eric Holder's report of what went down in Ferguson.  All "Black Lives Matter" did was attempt to inflame the issue and that riot was the catalyst for a lot of racial unrest.  This idea that Michael Brown was some innocent victim is insane.  Black witnesses turned that story around and the ballistics proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he attacked Wilson.

 

By the way ALL LIVES MATTER, not just black lives.

[PseudoSABR]

 

All that said, the Korver article loses me when he talks about "quiet racism"

"Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time."

 

Sorry, but I feel that way and that would make me racist according to him.

I think you're having trouble conceiving of racism beyond outright hatred. For instance, believing that all black young men keep it real, which in turn means they'll do whatever they want, is a racist belief. 

 

It also sounds like you don't believe oppression or racism can be systemic (or latent); this is the heart Kover's piece, that Black people can't opt out of controversies, like what we people, we have privilege they are denied.  Whether you want to call them victims or disenfranchised or whatever doesn't matter, but the phenomenon exists, and data backs it up. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

 

Black Live Matter supported a false narrative.  Read Eric Holder's report of what went down in Ferguson.  All "Black Lives Matter" did was attempt to inflame the issue and that riot was the catalyst for a lot of racial unrest.  This idea that Michael Brown was some innocent victim is insane.  Black witnesses turned that story around and the ballistics proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he attacked Wilson.

 

By the way ALL LIVES MATTER, not just black lives.

The point of Black Lives matter was never to suggest that other lives matter less (which is why all lives matter as slogan is stupid af), rather that Black lives matter too, or that Black lives matter just as much. 

 

(And the Black Lives Matter movement extends far beyond the events of Ferguson).

[TheLeviathan]

 

 This fluff piece by Korver is all talk and it portrays blacks as victims.  

 

They were victims.  For several centuries directly and indirectly for another century after that.  (At the very least)  That's what Black Lives Matter means - we need to pay attention to the unique set of wrongs done to this group of people and the lasting ramifications and ongoing trials that puts them through.  

 

What white privilege is, is the recognition that there are challenges and obstacles you don't have to face simply by being white.  It's not something you have to apologize for, just recognize.  As Korver said, it's not about feeling guilty, it's about feeling responsible about helping to make it better.  You can't be part of that unless you are willing to recognize that the long list of exceptions you made are irrelevant in the vast array of unfairness black people have to navigate every day.  

 

Yes, we shouldn't be celebrating victimhood.  But we can't expect people still being victimized to be able to fix it themselves.  If they could....they likely wouldn't be victims at all.  Black men and women need our help to rise above the wrongs of the past.  I'd suggest to you that step one of that for you is to recognize your help is needed for a very real problem.  One that the kind of minimization you and so many others engage in makes worse.

[ewen21]

I don't believe there is system racism. That is correct

[ewen21]

Aside from treating everyone the same way upon meeting them there isn't much more I'm going to do. I'm not about to act differently because I'm in the presence of a black person. This seems to be what's being suggested here and I believe that kind of thinking patronizing and totally misguided.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Aside from treating everyone the same way upon meeting them there isn't much more I'm going to do. I'm not about to act differently because I'm in the presence of a black person. This seems to be what's being suggested here and I believe that kind of thinking patronizing and totally misguided.

 

It seems like you're drawing a conclusion about what "is" (systemic racism) based upon your willingness to help.  That is fallacious thinking.  

 

And here's the thing...no one is asking you to "act" differently.  Just to help make the world a better, fairer place.

[ewen21]

SABR, what does Black Lives Matter suggest if candidate for felt compelled to apologize formally for saying "all lives matter"??

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2015/07/18/politics/martin-omalley-all-lives-matter/index.html

The reasoning was the context made it seem offensive. I think some people are dying to be offended

[ewen21]

Explain to me your best example of systemic racism

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

By the way ALL LIVES MATTER, not just black lives.

Yet not a single goddamned person on the planet bothered to say "All Lives Matter" until someone had the audacity to say "Black Lives Matter".

 

So, no, your claim "All Lives Matter" rings pretty hollow to me.

[ewen21]

I don't know people. Seems as if Korver wrote 100% truth and gospel to everyone here, but me. There several points he made worst questioning/challenging

 

Seems like that's not wanted. Sorry if I upset anyone

[ewen21]

Brock, I cited a statement made by Martin O'Malley. A democratic candidate for president in the last election. He felt the need to apologize for saying "all lives matter" when BLM was shouting over him while was speaking. HE had to apologize. I find that troubling. What could be more fair and rational than "all lives matter"

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Explain to me your best example of systemic racism

Dude, you're joking, right?

 

Not 25 posts ago, you typed this:

 

"You should be aware that Clinton's violent crime bill in 1994 helped to target blacks and is a big reason for the mass incarceration of them."

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

What could be more fair and rational than "all lives matter"

When it's used as a response to quiet "Black Lives Matter", which was literally the purpose of the creation of the phrase "All Lives Matter".

 

Context is important. Not a single person said "All Lives Matter" until it could be used as a rebuttal for uppity black people who had the audacity to say they matter, too.

[ewen21]

And SABR, your boy Bernie got shouted down by BLM in Seartle. I guess they thought he was your typical white liberal feed blacks a line.

 

Good for them!

[ewen21]

Why should they be quieted? He had the mic he paid for the space to speak. Anyone can scream whatever when a presidential candidate speaks? What about all the people who came to hear what he had to say?

 

BLM gets a pass, right

Whatever.

 

Later guys

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Why should they be quieted? He had the mic he paid for the space to speak. Anyone can scream whatever when a presidential candidate speaks? What about all the people who came to hear what he had to say?

BLM gets a pass, right
Whatever.

Later guys

You should try arguing honestly some time. 

 

Because you're screaming about a point no one has defended, yet didn't respond to me turning your own Clinton statement against you regarding systemic racism.

 

But hey, fake righteous indignation sure is easier than defending opposing points you made all by yourself.

[ewen21]

now you endorse my larger point that the Democratic Party has done more damage to African Americans they most here can begin to comprehend

 

And Brock, BLM wasn't simply speaking their mind. The upstaged political rallies, shouted down candidates and disrupted traffic. If they had a different approach your characterization would be better. You completely ignore the pertinent details regarding their methods and disrespectful conduct

[ewen21]

Sorry but I can't post from my phone at a pub. Let's continue this tomorrow

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

now you endorse my larger point that the Democratic Party has done more damage to African Americans they most here can begin to comprehend

No, I'm not endorsing your point, I'm showing the hypocrisy of "systemic racism doesn't exist" and "Democrats instituted systemic racism in the 90s" coming from the mouth of the same person within a 24 hour period.

 

Besides, it's irrelevant to me. I effing HATE Bill Clinton. Always have, probably always will. 

 

You're more interested in making this a partisan argument because that's easy for you to get around. Well, guess what? Some of us have little use for the Democratic Party as a whole. Levi and I fall under that umbrella. Pseudo hates corporate Democrats more than any of us, probably.

 

So attacking individual Democrats none of us have much interest in defending isn't a useful point because you're just trying to deflect the conversation into partisan nonsense and it's not even recent partisan nonsense because you're digging back two and a half decades to get there.

[ewen21]

Clinton conceived that plan with a racist agenda. You know for sure it was planned out specifically to encarcerate blacks? I abhor Clinton and I don't believe it for a second.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Clinton conceived that plan with a racist agenda. You know for sure it was planned out specifically to encarcerate blacks? I abhor Clinton and I don't believe it for a second.

You literally used the word "target" in your post. If you don't want me to misunderstand your point, use the correct words to voice that point.

[ewen21]

I think it's necessary for all speaking on it to define "systemic racism"

[ewen21]

I'll get back to you tomorrow, Brock.

 

I promise. I'm out and I'm having a beer watching ballgame. You're just gonna need to wait.

 

Good day sir

[PseudoSABR]

 

They were victims.  For several centuries directly and indirectly for another century after that.  (At the very least)  That's what Black Lives Matter means - we need to pay attention to the unique set of wrongs done to this group of people and the lasting ramifications and ongoing trials that puts them through.  

 

What white privilege is, is the recognition that there are challenges and obstacles you don't have to face simply by being white.  It's not something you have to apologize for, just recognize.  As Korver said, it's not about feeling guilty, it's about feeling responsible about helping to make it better.  You can't be part of that unless you are willing to recognize that the long list of exceptions you made are irrelevant in the vast array of unfairness black people have to navigate every day.  

 

Yes, we shouldn't be celebrating victimhood.  But we can't expect people still being victimized to be able to fix it themselves.  If they could....they likely wouldn't be victims at all.  Black men and women need our help to rise above the wrongs of the past.  I'd suggest to you that step one of that for you is to recognize your help is needed for a very real problem.  One that the kind of minimization you and so many others engage in makes worse.

Well said, Levi.

[Mr. Brooks]

Explain to me your best example of systemic racism

The fact that African Americans are far more likely to both be arrested for, and incarcerated for (and for longer sentences) than whites are for the same crimes.

 

What else would you call that, if not systemic racism?