Logan trailer

[Brock Beauchamp]

I just... I... wow.

 

I can't even. Just wow.

 

Talk about hitting all the right notes and playing up audience investment in a character whose time is near an end.

 

Best comic book movie trailer ever.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbug3zTm3Ws

[Craig Arko]

I'm ready. Old Man Logan is a great story arc.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm ready. Old Man Logan is a great story arc.

I thought the idea was a lot better than its implementation. Old Man Logan was a great idea if told through the lens of a small, heartfelt story about Logan's journey.

 

Instead, the story blew up into a massive "let's kill everybody and rain death upon the world" throwdown.

 

In short, it turned into an absurdly violent superhero story and kinda forgot it was supposed to be about Logan.

[Craig Arko]

Guess we'll have to wait and see what they do with it. I'm sure there will be plenty of twists.

[TheLeviathan]

Seems like a mix of Old Man Logan and some of the early stories with Kitty Pryde. I dig it.

 

We know Wolverine will be back with a new actor sometime so this is a good way to see Hugh off. He has been amazing in the role.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Seems like a mix of Old Man Logan and some of the early stories with Kitty Pryde. I dig it.

We know Wolverine will be back with a new actor sometime so this is a good way to see Hugh off. He has been amazing in the role.

Yeah, agreed. I think it's a play on the Shadowcat/Jubilee dynamic through the 80s and 90s and it's a good dynamic to play with in the film.

 

And I suspect that little girl is X-23, though possibly without all the clone mumbo-jumbo nonsense.

[nicksaviking]

Without knowing too much about the source material; that trailer is flat out awesome. Johnny Cash's version of Hurt was perfect for it and if you had never seen an X-Men movie, you would have no clue it was about super heroes.

 

It looked like if Cormic McCarthy's The Road had a baby with Midnight Run. Which is a compliment obviously.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yeah, agreed. I think it's a play on the Shadowcat/Jubilee dynamic through the 80s and 90s and it's a good dynamic to play with in the film.

 

And I suspect that little girl is X-23, though possibly without all the clone mumbo-jumbo nonsense.

 

I thought X-23 as well.  An interesting, if poorly used character in the source material.

 

Also interesting that the Reavers didn't have their mechanical component, which I think I like.  I'm still interested to see what role Sinister has.  Perhaps that's where the cloning comes in?  Or, as he's apt to do, splice genes to create a weapon for his own use?

 

I like the idea, but planting Sinister into some future world as an adversary could prove problematic if the movies continue.  (Though, as a diehard X-fan, I'd kind of like to see them really and truly rebooted.  Even though I love Fassbender's take on Magneto apart from the last movie which I've chosen to strike from my memory)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

(Though, as a diehard X-fan, I'd kind of like to see them really and truly rebooted.  Even though I love Fassbender's take on Magneto apart from the last movie which I've chosen to strike from my memory)

Wiping Magneto from one's memory in the third film of an X-Men trilogy seems to be a recurring theme.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Wiping Magneto from one's memory in the third film of an X-Men trilogy seems to be a recurring theme.

 

A trend we badly need eliminated.  You could do 10 movies around Magneto and never get stale.  The fact that this franchise has managed to botch most of them is baffling to me.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

A trend we badly need eliminated.  You could do 10 movies around Magneto and never get stale.  The fact that this franchise has managed to botch most of them is baffling to me.

Yeah, no kidding.

 

Magneto was so good in First Class and Days of Future Past. Then Singer lost focus of the character. When he joined Apocalypse in the third film, I literally exclaimed "Oh, **** YOU!" at my television screen. It was a complete betrayal of the character, both who he was before and who was to become in later films.

 

Magneto does not want to bring about the end of the world. It's questionable that Magneto is even interested in ruling the world. He wants mutant dominance... and not even dominance in many cases. He's most often pursuing mutant security, probably an enclave, a safe haven. He doesn't participate in the wholesale murder of other mutants because he respects all other mutants. He's trying to further the mutant cause and bring all mutants to his side, not kill those who disagree. It's what makes the Xavier/Magneto relationship so great.

 

And the notion that he'd participate in a world-ending event, essentially genocide, out of which he was borne, is ludicrous. Magneto is an enduring, interesting character because he's not a paper-thin villain. He's not a bad guy. He's a complex, rich character with very specific goals. Sometimes those goals are noble. In many cases, maybe even most cases, they are noble goals. It's the means he uses to achieve those goals that are villainous.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Also interesting that the Reavers didn't have their mechanical component, which I think I like.  I'm still interested to see what role Sinister has.  Perhaps that's where the cloning comes in?  Or, as he's apt to do, splice genes to create a weapon for his own use?

I also like the non-mechanical Reavers (which I assume are the militant bad guys). This story should be small, local, and grounded. Put the punch in the emotional baggage, not sci-fi wizardry.

 

You mentioned Sinister. I have neither seen nor heard his name mentioned in reference to this movie. Did I miss something? I admit I haven't paid much attention to the lead-up to this trailer, as I was so disgusted by Apocalypse and never cared for Wolverine that much in the first place. I think Jackson is a fantastic Logan, I've just never been that into the character (probably because everyone else my age worshipped at the alter of Wolverine as a child).

[TheLeviathan]

 

I also like the non-mechanical Reavers (which I assume are the militant bad guys). This story should be small, local, and grounded. Put the punch in the emotional baggage, not sci-fi wizardry.

 

You mentioned Sinister. I have neither seen nor heard his name mentioned in reference to this movie. Did I miss something? I admit I haven't paid much attention to the lead-up to this trailer, as I was so disgusted by Apocalypse and never cared for Wolverine that much in the first place. I think Jackson is a fantastic Logan, I've just never been that into the character (probably because everyone else my age worshipped at the alter of Wolverine as a child).

 

Essex was name dropped in Xmen:Apocalypse and there are rumors that Richard E. Grant is playing the role.  It'd make a lot of sense if he is behind X-23.  Sinister is also known for employing desposable goons to do his dirty work. 

 

I had the same rebellious take on Wolverine.  He was the "it" guy, so i steered toward Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Rogue.  

 

As for Magneto, I thought it should always break down something like this:

 

1) Magneto appears on the scene, frustrated with mutant oppression, and does something like they did in Xmen First Class

2) He forms his brotherhood and there is mutant civil war.  

3) He tries to form his own civilizations like he did with Asteroid M, Genosha, and the Savage Land.

4) He starts to recruit others and maybe gets manipulated ala Cortez in Fatal Attractions.

5) Xmen Apocalypse - Xavier dies and we see the inner hero in Magneto

6) Magneto joins the X-men and pushes them towards darker decisions 

 

I could probably go on, the source material is rich and very poorly tapped into at this point.  Hell, i didn't even go down the road of him ripping the metal off Logan's bones or his love affair with Rogue or his children.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I had the same rebellious take on Wolverine.  He was the "it" guy, so i steered toward Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Rogue. 

Hilarious. Identical three favorite X-Men, though Nightcrawler was my preferred X-Man. I bought about 50 issues of Excalibur just because he was in it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

As for Magneto, I thought it should always break down something like this:

 

1) Magneto appears on the scene, frustrated with mutant oppression, and does something like they did in Xmen First Class

2) He forms his brotherhood and there is mutant civil war.  

3) He tries to form his own civilizations like he did with Asteroid M, Genosha, and the Savage Land.

4) He starts to recruit others and maybe gets manipulated ala Cortez in Fatal Attractions.

5) Xmen Apocalypse - Xavier dies and we see the inner hero in Magneto

6) Magneto joins the X-men and pushes them towards darker decisions

Yep. Logical character progression that generally follows the comic book character arc (the better arcs, anyway).

[TheLeviathan]

 

Hilarious. Identical three favorite X-Men, though Nightcrawler was my preferred X-Man. I bought about 50 issues of Excalibur just because he was in it.

 

I actually got my son a custom made Baby Bamf doll, so I'm right there with you.

[nicksaviking]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RealHughJackman/status/819883222138023941

 

Jackman tweeted a synopsis of the film. This totally sounds like El Dorado/Rio Bravo, that sounds great to me. Set on the Texas/Mexican border, this is going to be a modern day western.

[TheLeviathan]

The Xmen franchise is due a film that doesn't suck.  (Deadpool doesn't count, he's basically his own brand)

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The Xmen franchise is due a film that doesn't suck.  (Deadpool doesn't count, he's basically his own brand)

I quite liked First Class and Days of Future Past but Apocalypse was a friggin' mess.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I quite liked First Class and Days of Future Past but Apocalypse was a friggin' mess.

 

I thoroughly disliked First Class and was ok with DoFP.  

 

Without Fassbender I'd put both of those movies in the "bleh" pile personally.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Interesting. I *really* liked First Class while I liked DoFP.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Interesting. I *really* liked First Class while I liked DoFP.

 

Why out of curiosity?

 

I thought Shaw and his crew made a really terrible foil and dragged the movie down.

[jimmer]

 

Interesting. I *really* liked First Class while I liked DoFP.

I'm not even a big X-Men guy, but I liked First Class quite a bit.  

[TheLeviathan]

I think part of my issue is I hate the Mystiquifying of the X-universe because of casting choices.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not sure why they focused so heavily on Mystique but overall, I've liked the casting choices for the character (though I'm not in love with the character).

 

As for Shaw in First Class, he was easily the weakest part of the film (well, January Jones was technically the weakest but she's part of his crew).

 

Really, I liked the film because of the Magneto/Xavier dynamic. I thought it was better than even the Stewart/McKellen dynamic, which is really saying something. McAvoy and Fassbender absolutely killed it in that film.

 

What I liked about First Class is that it went right into the X-Universe's wheelhouse by making it not about an enemy so much as the human interaction and ideologies of the characters. The actual enemy was an afterthought to me and I was okay with that. The more the movie drilled in on McAvoy and Fassbender, the more I liked it.

[TheLeviathan]

I like Jennifer Lawrence as an actress, she's wonderful.  However, her profile was raised exponentially after she took the role and I think they over-centralized that character in the last three movies as a result.  I'm not real comfortable with that.

 

As for your larger point I can see that.  I also love the McAvoy/Fassbender dynamic.  They truly have nailed the characters.  And for me, that's in part because McKellen was never Magneto to me.  Yes, he had an air about him and there were elements of the character he did well, but he lacked something.  I have always seen Magneto as a modernized warrior king.  His people slighted and abused, he rose up from his own grief and vowed never to be subjugated again.  He should have the air of royalty by force of personality, but he also needs to be evidently a man not to @%*^ with.  McKellen's Magneto gave me the first half of that, never the second half.  Fassbender gave me both.

 

Still, for me, that relationship (as good as it was and as crucial as that dynamic is) doesn't replace a rather flimsy plot, terrible supporting characters, and some miscast roles.  I was, however, encouraged by it as a new start for the franchise.  DoFP carried that on, but then the whole thing fell apart IMO.  That soured me as well.  (Along with the ever escalating centralization of Mystique and her being shoe-horned into the Prof X/Mags dynamic)

 

I've always been, first and foremost, an X-men fan and a comic book fan second.  They've always been the most fascinating comic universe to discuss the complexities of humanity for me, even above Batman which I would place second.  At times the movies have soared to reach those group dynamics and the problems of difference, but they've struggled to do it with any consistency.  And they've often failed miserably.

 

I feel like a restart with a better focus on that dynamic would be so much better served.  Rather than trying to just play the hits (Apocalypse!  Now Sinister!  Who wants some Sentinels!), tell the X-men story.  It's a damn good one.

 

Oh, and if you're going to just play the hits, shoe-horn a movie in which they kick the ever loving hell out of the Inhumans.  Because screw Marvel.  Remember who put your movie universe on the map.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I agree that trying to play the hits is a mistake, though I do love me some Sentinels.

 

But, other than Magneto, I've always found X-Men villains lacking... And that worked because the main characters were so intriguing.

 

It would be hard for me to care less about the likes of Sinister and Apocalypse.

 

But if they had the courage to tell a good Morlocks story - which ties directly into the themes that make X-Men so good - I'd be all on board. I mean, the more you think about that film, the more it's screaming to be made because everything just slots into place so nicely.

 

While it's easy to crap on George Lucas, his idea of "give the fans something they don't know they want" is something I wish more creatives would keep in mind. George tried - and failed - to do that with the prequels but hey, at least he tried.

[Brock Beauchamp]

While I'm on that thought, Doctor Strange was a good movie... But how much better could it have been if Marvel said "to hell with it" and made a proper Doctor Strange movie with a focus on "strange"?

 

The scene against Dormammu was brilliant but left me with the feeling "why wasn't the rest of the movie like that?" Having a non-fight climax was a fantastic decision but put on display just how "normal" the rest of the movie felt in comparison.

 

I feel Marvel kinda missed the boat with Strange. They could have shattered the "superhero movie" mold by making something truly weird and terrifying.

 

After all, that's what Doctor Strange is all about. Instead, we get Vanilla Strange from the SFX crew that brought you Inception.

[TheLeviathan]

The Morlocks are a good story and you can roll Sinister into that if you choose.  Other than Batman most of the great comic stories have to do with the internal struggles more than the enemy IMO.  Magneto being a notable exception.

 

The Sentinels were used ok, other than the goofy Mystique thing they did about adaptation.  Which didn't make any damn sense.  But as a threat they are hugely effective.  I just wish they had gone the Mastermold route, though I acknowledge it would be delicate to not come off as a Terminator rip off.  

 

I think we've talked about this before, but I'd plot my X-men movies something like this:

 

1 - Something like first class, heavy on X/Mags, but with the actual recruits mattering.  They can't just be C-listers.  Their role in the dynamic does matter, they need to be characters that endure the whole movie chain.

2 - Mags realizes he needs his own group of followers, mutant civil war

3 - Magneto loses but rallies many to his cause, sets up his own turf as a sort of Israel parallel.  His rise results in the push back from the humans to design the Sentinel program and you go DoFP.

4 - Mutant civilization starts to form into classes, Sinister from the shadows tries to exterminate the Morlocks, the X-men are there to stop him.  Magneto feels badly about his inability to step in

5 - Age of Apocalypse is a possibility here, Magneto sees the error of his ways in an alternate world where X dies to save him and the world goes to hell

6 - News of this shatters Magneto's world view, he opts to join the X-men as their leader as Prof X goes with Lilandra

7 - Phoenix Saga, the Xmen (with Mags) fight for each other against the most powerful force in the universe.  Magneto realizes that cooperation and love is perhaps not the worst idea or whatever other sappy ending.

 

I'm spitballing, but I think that hits the X-men's highest highs in a natural progression.

[TheLeviathan]

I haven't seen Strange yet unfortunately, looking forward to it.