Article: Painted Into A Corner (Infield Crunch)

[The Wise One]

 

BMI should never be used for anything ever. It's the RBI of health statistics, measuring a result but not tracking the cause.

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106268439

 BMI is based  on proportions of height  and weight. The number itself for an athlete is useless in terms of body fat.  On the other hand  two people of different heights and weights with the same number as bmi are going to be built proportionately close to  the same . Despite the flaws of the usage of bmi, the number can be used as a comparison tool .  Any argument  one uses to say Sano shouldn't be in the outfield on size thus should have been used on Bryant. They were not. Sorry the word BMI is like a red flag waved in front of a bull

Edited August 10, 2016 by The Wise One

[jimmer]

 

 BMI is based  on proportions of height  and weight. The number itself for an athlete is useless in terms of body fat.  On the other hand  two people of different heights and weights with the same number as bmi are going to be built proportionately close to  the same . Despite the flaws of the usage of bmi, the number can be used as a comparison tool .  Any argument  one uses to say Sano shouldn't be in the outfield on size thus should have been used on Bryant. They were not. Sorry the word BMI is like a red flag waved in front of a bull

Bryant is an inch taller and 35-40 pounds lighter than Sano. Bryant is the same height as Jason Heyward (who plays a mean OF), but actually 10 pounds lighter.  Bryant was also not thrown out there and told OF is now your permanent home for the season.

Edited August 10, 2016 by jimmer

[Blackjack]

 

Or we could do Molitor's plan which is apparently to play him at DH everyday and see if that makes him a better DH.

Molitor is stuck with the roster he's been given. He knows that Sano needs to play but who knows what kind of instructions management has given him regarding Plouffe and playing a lot before the Aug. deadline....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

 BMI is based  on proportions of height  and weight. The number itself for an athlete is useless in terms of body fat.  On the other hand  two people of different heights and weights with the same number as bmi are going to be built proportionately close to  the same . Despite the flaws of the usage of bmi, the number can be used as a comparison tool .  Any argument  one uses to say Sano shouldn't be in the outfield on size thus should have been used on Bryant. They were not. Sorry the word BMI is like a red flag waved in front of a bull

But that's not true at all. Justin Morneau and I are approximately the same height and weight. Therefore, we have the same BMI.

 

I look nothing like Justin Morneau.

 

Another good example is one of my best friends and me in high school. We were the exact same size. Height, waist size, everything. We wore the same size in everything. I weighed 20 lbs. more than him, sometimes as much as 25 lbs more. My bones were denser or I had hidden muscle packed in somewhere unknown (we were both rail skinny). But we had wildly different BMI.

 

Read the article I posted. BMI was created by a mathematician, not a physician. It was meant to measure body type in the aggregate, not on an individual basis.

 

BMI is garbage "science". The word "science" shouldn't even appear alongside BMI.

[alarp33]

 

But that's not true at all. Justin Morneau and I are approximately the same height and weight. Therefore, we have the same BMI.

 

I look nothing like Justin Morneau.

 

Another good example is one of my best friends and me in high school. We were the exact same size. Height, waist size, everything. We wore the same size in everything. I weighed 20 lbs. more than him, sometimes as much as 25 lbs more. My bones were denser or I had hidden muscle packed in somewhere unknown (we were both rail skinny). But we had wildly different BMI.

 

Read the article I posted. BMI was created by a mathematician, not a physician. It was meant to measure body type in the aggregate, not on an individual basis.

 

BMI is garbage "science". The word "science" shouldn't even appear alongside BMI.

 

Try looking up some Football players to really show how stupid BMI is.  

 

Anthony Barr

 

Height: 6 feet, 5 inches

Weight: 255 pounds

Your BMI is 30.2, indicating your weight is in the Obese category for adults of your height.

 

http://prod.images.vikings.clubs.nflcdn.com/image-web/NFL/CDA/data/deployed/prod/VIKINGS/assets/images/imported/MIN/photos/clubimages/2014/09-September/tempatl-focus-093014-1-ck093014--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg?width=960&height=720

[nokomismod]

 

'Sano in right as a mistake.Schwaber is built along the same lines as Sano. Shorter, but about the same BMI.Can't find where people thought Epstien and Maddon were idiots. The all Star Bryant does not always play 3b, he gets to play OF   Jeezo, those Cubs must sure be idiots.'

 

 

Sano is only 35, 40 pounds heavier than Schwarber (BMI doesn't matter, that's 35-40 more pounds to get moving out there.  Has there been a heavier OF given a starting OF job.  Pretty sure there hasn't) and Sano, unlike Schwarber, had no time in the minors as an OF.

 

With the exception of those things, their situations are exactly alike....

 

Tons of fans said the idea of putting Sano out in the OF was ridiculous right from the start, and he ended up being horrible out there.  For those people who want to continue to think it was a well conceived idea from the Twins braintrust, that's on them. It's kind of like faith.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but has Sano ever been any better at 3B than he was in his brief time in the OF? I will say he has made a few nice plays at Third, but he has had a whole bunch of ugly plays at both positions.

[Cody Christie]

I would leave Park at AAA until he shows he can hit on a consistent basis. Move Plouffe this winter if he has any value. Use Polanco and Sano at third base with Vargas and Mauer at first base. All of these players could get DH time in that scenario. 

 

I could see Dozier being traded as well. He could bring back more value than Plouffe and it would free up second base for Polanco. 

[The Wise One]

But that's not true at all. Justin Morneau and I are approximately the same height and weight. Therefore, we have the same BMI.

 

I look nothing like Justin Morneau.

 

Another good example is one of my best friends and me in high school. We were the exact same size. Height, waist size, everything. We wore the same size in everything. I weighed 20 lbs. more than him, sometimes as much as 25 lbs more. My bones were denser or I had hidden muscle packed in somewhere unknown (we were both rail skinny). But we had wildly different BMI.

 

Read the article I posted. BMI was created by a mathematician, not a physician. It was meant to measure body type in the aggregate, not on an individual basis.

 

BMI is garbage "science". The word "science" shouldn't even appear alongside BMI.

 

 

In the end Bryant, a big man could play in the outfield with no problem. Adam Dunn played outfield. He did so as well as he fielded any other position on the field, without injuring himself. Carlos Lee was bigger than Sano. He managed. Jason Werth is a pretty big OF, There was absolutely no reason for Sano not to be able to play in the outfield other than the limitation of Sano being Sano. Sano has over 400 games played at 3b as a professional How long does it take to learn a position? Plouffe after 200 games was a good defender.

Sano to right was about getting Sano less chance to touch a baseball in a game. After 4 years Sano is no closer to being competent at 3b than when he started playing. They are now having a "problem" at corner infield because Sano managed to somehow be a worse OF than 3b.

Edited August 11, 2016 by The Wise One

[jimmer]

Ok, well, Jason Werth and Bryant are both an inch taller and 35-40 pounds lighter than Sano, and Bryant wasn't thrown out there and told you're an OF now (or for a whole season) like was the plan for Sano. See Bryant is actually a very good fielding 3B (unlike Sano), so only when other IF need to get some time in (because the Cubs are actually loaded with legitimate positional talent) does he go to OF.

 

And when names like Carlos Less and Dunn (who, BTW, played OF in the minors exclusively unlike Sano who never played it) are pulled out as examples of successful fielding in the OF, well, you just got to wonder how far you're willing to go to try...

Edited August 11, 2016 by jimmer

[ewen21]

 

On the surface, the move for Park wasn't a bad one. On the surface

 

It was a bad move on the surface. I hated it instantly for a few reasons:

 

1. Kennys Vargas was not a terrible as the Twins made him out to be last year.  He had a down sophomore year, but he is everything Park because he'd already proven himself to an extent.  Park had NOTHING as far a track record went.

 

2. The Twins acted as if they HAD TO have him so they went out of their way to bid for him and waste time, energy and resources on getting this guy when all of it could have been better spent addressing other issues, i.e pitching or a stop gap FA outfielder

 

3. They already made that idiotic decision to move Sano to the outfield.  That caused Kepler to get crowded out and then created a scenario where if Sano were to fail in the outfield (more likely than not) we'd have Park stealing his DH spot.

 

The Park move was so unnecessary and I don't think the guy will ever amount to anything.  Hated the deal from Jump Street and a lot of other Twins fans did as well so I don;t want to hear about "hindsight is 20/20"

[ewen21]

 

Ok, well, Jason Werth and Bryant are both an inch taller and 35-40 pounds lighter than Sano, and Bryant wasn't thrown out there and told you're an OF now (or for a whole season) like was the plan for Sano. See Bryant is actually a very good fielding 3B (unlike Sano), so only when other IF need to get some time in (because the Cubs are actually loaded with legitimate positional talent) does he go to OF.

 

And when names like Carlos Less and Dunn (who, BTW, played OF in the minors exclusively unlike Sano who never played it) are pulled out as examples of successful fielding in the OF, well, you just got to wonder how far you're willing to go to try...

Bryant has as much to do with Sano as what the weather in Istanbul has to do with the price of eggs.  Reusse ran that up the pole and I have no idea why.  To cover for his buddy Terry Ryan?

[TheTruth]

 

The logjam at first.

 

Towards the future, I was actually looking as Kepler being a first baseman (he was playing there a bit in AA ball). And people talk about Sano, possibly. But see Sano moving towards DH.

 

In the distant minors, we have Diaz. But before that, we have Bargas, who will have to be carried on the 40-man next year and then arbitration eligible in 2018. We have Park, on the ropes until 2019 with an option. Of course, joltin' Joe is there for two more seasons and not going anywheres. At least, if we had cycled Arcia into the mix (instead of Park) we had a fourth outfielder to play the corners.

 

A bigger question is the capability of any of these guys coming off the bench, Thome -style, to give you the big hit. Plus getting the pitching in order so you can carry a "slugger only" on the bench.

 

Yes, we do have Walker, who can go up and down for the next couple of years/. We have Palka, who might be a first baseman, and can also cycle into a role come 2018 or beyond if we wish to wait that long.

 

Vargas they tried to send abroad (still keeping him as a Twin for another year or two, I believe). That didn't happen. They might be able to move Park back to Asia. But even with any success, I'm not sure if the market for a Park or a Vargas is any better than an overpaid Mauer...which is really the albatross (although he does get on-base.).

 

The new general manager has to figure out the direction to go.

I'm sure Boston would help the Twins out and take Vargas off their hands. He could replace another ex Twin who is retiring. Full time DH spot wide open for him.

 

I am not really a betting man, but in this situation I would bet a good chunk of cash that Vargas would succeed big time in Boston.