Throw in Prospects

[clone52]

 

Ugh. 

 

Throwing in a prospect would work against the Twins' desired ends for a number of reasons:

 

First, to a pennant-chasing team, that extra lower-grade prospect is virtually meaningless.  At best, it would serve to outweigh extra added cost of the contract (which *sigh* Twins).    

 

Second, if the trading-team had a better prospect it was willing to part with, it would seek a better pitcher than we have to offer.  Santana is a good asset, despite the word around hear, but he's not the game changer you give up a piece of the future (and that's what we seek in return, right?).

 

Third, these are prospects, we shouldn't give up our 'prospect' in addition to a valued tradeable asset, to obtain another 'prospect' whom is more highly regarded.  That's the strategy Delmon Young trades are made of. 

 

There are areas in the Twins minor league system that are just too full of prospects.  Take OF for example, do you see major league experience coming for Adam Brett Walker, Daniel Palka or Travis Harrison coming soon?  Why would you say any of those guys are off limits in a trade.

 

They might also have players that need to be put on the 40 man roster in the next year or 2, but know that they won't be able to put them on the 40 man roster.  Why not make them available in trades if you already know you might risk losing them for nothing in a Rule 5 draft.

 

Even starting pitching is kind of a dept in the minor league system.  Do you see major league spots for all of these guys in the next 3-4 years:  Berrios, Duffey, Rogers, Dean, Stewart, Jay, Gonsalves, Slegers, Eades, Thorpe, Jorge.  

[drivlikejehu]

Guys like Walker and Harrison have essentially no value, so using them as trade throw-ins won't impact the Twins' return. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Guys like Walker and Harrison have essentially no value, so using them as trade throw-ins won't impact the Twins' return. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying they couldn't be.  You tend to want to keep these guys however. If Harrison or Walker can be packaged with Santana and cash to get a high quality SP prospect like Glasnow or Giolotto, by all means do it.  I doubt anyone is really saying otherwise.  I also highly doubt that the Pirates or Nationals would do that, but desperation in seeking a title can make someone do desperate things.

 

If you start packaging those guys for major leaguers with a couple of years until FA... well then I think you're doing it wrong

[drivlikejehu]

 

I don't think anyone is saying they couldn't be.  You tend to want to keep these guys however. If Harrison or Walker can be packaged with Santana and cash to get a high quality SP prospect like Glasnow or Giolotto, by all means do it.  I doubt anyone is really saying otherwise.  I also highly doubt that the Pirates or Nationals would do that, but desperation in seeking a title can make someone do desperate things.

 

If you start packaging those guys for major leaguers with a couple of years until FA... well then I think you're doing it wrong

 

This doesn't seem like you were responding to my post? The point is that Walker and Harrison are not desired by other teams, so they just aren't a relevant part of the trade-related discussion. 

[The Wise One]

 

From the day of the trade...


http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2013/07/02/cubs-trade-feldman-clevenger-to-orioles-for-arrieta-strop-and-bonus-money/

The Twins could look for a similar guy at 27 that was once a top prospect 3-4 years ago followed by no success over numerous opportunities. They can hope that a change of scenery will help. Maybe their scouts see something that the Twins coaching staff can fix.

What will be the reaction if the return is a 27 year with a 7.23 ERA before being sent to the minors even if he was the number 67 prospect 4 years ago?

The Twins picked up the 2012 number 76 prospect for free this year and were criticized.

The Twins were criticized here for letting go of a late blooming RA Dickey.  Jose Bautista started hitting late and defies the ageing curve,  Joe Nathan did not start pitching until a late age,  Randy Johnson was mediocre for a long time. With many of these players, whatever their ceiling remains despite what the experts say. Sometimes it takes longer for a player.

 The guy who is 26 and former prospect always had a good eye for the strike zone considering his BB%. A talent you can build from. So far it has worked.  The initial urgency probably can't be maintained, but sensing a last chance can be a helpful thing.  Dozier did not become good until he was the 26.  Had he not worked out then, he might have had to start a coaching career. Maybe sensing the last chance kicks something into working.

[The Wise One]

 

This doesn't seem like you were responding to my post? The point is that Walker and Harrison are not desired by other teams, so they just aren't a relevant part of the trade-related discussion. 

Proof of no value please. Midseason grade says you are half wrong. In combination Walker would bring something.

8) Adam Brett Walker, OF, Grade B-/C+: Hitting .235/.308/.463 with 16 homers, 31 walks, 130 strikeouts in 285 at-bats (not a typo); still shows 70-grade power with some walks but a frighteningly high strikeout rate.

[Rosterman]

The Twins MAY have promising strength in the outfield, shortstop and bullpen. They WON'T be able to protect ALL these guys going forth, and better to move them IF they don't look like being immediate additions to the 40-man this year (or next) to get a better prospect (albeit at an even lower level) from another team is a given. Otherwise, you lose. Or look closely at guys like, say, WImmers, who is increasing his stock and needs to be protected or allowed to walk. 

 

The Twins are still hiding a lot of prospects from the Rule 5 by not advancing too many guys to Rochester...yet. They have to consider how many Kernels and Miracle players need to jump towards AA or be lost in the minor league portion of a draft...and be prepared to play them.

 

But it all boils down to salary. And also the possibility that the Twins might just cut loose a player (like Plouffe). A team would have to be hurting to pay anything for Suzuki, with his free agency on the horizon. There are better pitchers available at a lot less cost than, say, Nolasco or Santana. Teams might find Kyle Gibson to be a better goto for a trade because of his promise and cost.

 

Of course, so much will happen to the Twins in August, where they can just let guys walk if they want to lose the salary, or, in the case of Plouffe, let him become another team's worry and if you really want him, go back after him. But if the twins do want, say, Plouffe...they would be talking a $30+ million 3-year contract with him right now.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

This doesn't seem like you were responding to my post? The point is that Walker and Harrison are not desired by other teams, so they just aren't a relevant part of the trade-related discussion. 

 

Then I misread the post   I'd agree that these are definitely lesser tier prospects.  But I still wouldn't trade them unless I'm getting a pretty high tier prospect in return..

 

BTW, I'd note that I highly doubt there's a team out there who would trade a top shelf pitching prospect that we need for a major league asset and guys like ABW/Harrison, so I guess we agree on that.  

[clone52]

 

The Twins MAY have promising strength in the outfield, shortstop and bullpen. They WON'T be able to protect ALL these guys going forth, and better to move them IF they don't look like being immediate additions to the 40-man this year (or next) to get a better prospect (albeit at an even lower level) from another team is a given. Otherwise, you lose. Or look closely at guys like, say, WImmers, who is increasing his stock and needs to be protected or allowed to walk. 

 

The Twins are still hiding a lot of prospects from the Rule 5 by not advancing too many guys to Rochester...yet. They have to consider how many Kernels and Miracle players need to jump towards AA or be lost in the minor league portion of a draft...and be prepared to play them.

 

But it all boils down to salary. And also the possibility that the Twins might just cut loose a player (like Plouffe). A team would have to be hurting to pay anything for Suzuki, with his free agency on the horizon. There are better pitchers available at a lot less cost than, say, Nolasco or Santana. Teams might find Kyle Gibson to be a better goto for a trade because of his promise and cost.

 

Of course, so much will happen to the Twins in August, where they can just let guys walk if they want to lose the salary, or, in the case of Plouffe, let him become another team's worry and if you really want him, go back after him. But if the twins do want, say, Plouffe...they would be talking a $30+ million 3-year contract with him right now.

 

 

I may not know the rules to Rule 5, but I thought it was all based on minor league service time based on their age and when they were drafted.  I don't think there is any way to "hide" a player by not promoting them to AAA.