Pot, Gay Marriage and Overturning the supreme court

[USMCTwin]

 

Huh?

 

I was speaking to the difference that Carson merely wouldn't support someone running for President that is a Muslim, while ChiTown twisted it to not allowing born again Christians to run period, giving no choice for the people to even elect someone of that type.

[Squirrel]

 

Also important to notice the subtle difference in your language versus Carson's although very different implications. Carson said he would not advocate a Muslim for president, while you say born again Christians should not be allowed to run. One still allows a choice for the people the other is more in line with communism.

My point is perhaps 'extremism' in any religion has no place in the White House. Personally, I don't care what religion someone is ... just don't impose it on me.

[USMCTwin]

 

That's somewhat true, though most left-wing people are pretty brutal on Israel for no good reason either.  But yeah, there is a bizarre double standard in willingness to attack Christians and Jews, but not Islam.

 

On that issue there are very few on the left with any consistency or good sense.  Bill Maher is taking a pretty brave and correct stance on it, but he's an island to himself on the left.

 

I appreciated his stance on it. He's kind of being roasted for it, but I appreciate his consistency. This is why I want a political outsider. It's the same type of stance that you can be pro-life and an advocate of the death penalty. Life is sacred, except when it isn't. Maybe I'm getting jaded as I age, though I would consider myself relatively young, but I just don't find either party very appealing anymore.

[USMCTwin]

 

My point is perhaps 'extremism' in any religion has no place in the White House. Personally, I don't care what religion someone is ... just don't impose it on me.

 

Great, so you agree with Dr. Carson on this.

[Mike Sixel]

The VAST MAJORITY of Muslims don't live on Sharia law........it's a red herring to scare people. That simple.

 

If Carson had said "I don't want anyone to impose their religion on others, Muslim, Christian, Jew, whatever", that would be an answer that wasn't pandering to fear of Islam.

[Squirrel]

 

Great, so you agree with Dr. Carson on this.

I agree with him if he had included all in his answer. He did not.

[PseudoSABR]

A Muslim President could no more institute Sharia law than Kim Davis could refuse to certify gay marriage.  We live in a secular system, where elected officials take oaths to preclude this kind of nonsense.  As others have pointed out, this is fear-mongering nothing more.  

 

The danger for Christians is that if they use too broad of a brush trying to paint Islamic extremists, they may soon find themselves under the same bristles. 

[twinsnorth49]

 

A Muslim President could no more institute Sharia law than Kim Davis could refuse to certify gay marriage.  We live in a secular system, where elected officials take oaths to preclude this kind of nonsense.  As others have pointed out, this is fear-mongering nothing more.  

 

The danger for Christians is that if they use too broad of a brush trying to paint Islamic extremists, they may soon find themselves under the same bristles. 

This, I'm mainly just lurking but  was wondering when this was going to be pointed out.

[USMCTwin]

I think it's interesting what we choose to use our fake outrage over, when you examine what he was speaking against, Sharia Law. If you think Republicans are against women, homosexuals, and non-religious types you should really read the Sharia. It's horrifying. Clearly we won't agree because both sides are so biased which is what is wrong with politics in general, but I'll make this my last post as I have seemed to ruffle some feathers, which in like Dr. Carson was never my intent.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I think it's interesting what we choose to use our fake outrage over, when you examine what he was speaking against, Sharia Law. If you think Republicans are against women, homosexuals, and non-religious types you should really read the Sharia. It's horrifying. Clearly we won't agree because both sides are so biased which is what is wrong with politics in general, but I'll make this my last post as I have seemed to ruffle some feathers, which in like Dr. Carson was never my intent.

Too bad for GOP that the election is not Sharia law vs. Republican values.  They'd win for sure!

 

That said, I don't think you ruffled any feathers any more than usual in these threads.  Don't take the responses as an indication you shouldn't contribute.  Even though we don't all agree on the issues, I certainly appreciate hearing from people who think and believe differently from I do.

[formerly33]

 

Even though we don't all agree on the issues, I certainly appreciate hearing from people who think and believe differently from I do.

I can think of no other reason that keeps me coming back here and reading more.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The danger for Christians is that if they use too broad of a brush trying to paint Islamic extremists, they may soon find themselves under the same bristles. 

 

I'm confused by this.  It almost sounds like you're drawing an equivalency here.

 

I hope not, that's the one area Christians might actually have merit in their whining.

[DaveW]

 

That's somewhat true, though most left-wing people are pretty brutal on Israel for no good reason either.

Uh, there are plenty of legit reasons for people to question much of what Israel has done and continues to do. They shoulder their fare share of the blame IMO.

Back on topic, Carsor is far too smart to "accidently" make a gaffe like that, it is clear he was just trying to appeal to the far right of the republican party (the same ones that still scream: Obama is a MUSLIM!?!?!)

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'm confused by this.  It almost sounds like you're drawing an equivalency here.

 

I hope not, that's the one area Christians might actually have merit in their whining.

Encouraging a society to be watchful of religious extremism may accomplish just that.  There's actually no one running on Sharia law, but Huckabee is still in race, promising to jettison the law in the name of his religion if elected to office. 

[DaveW]

 

Encouraging a society to be watchful of religious extremism may accomplish just that.  There's actually no one running on Sharia law, but Huckabee is still in race, promising to jettison the law in the name of his religion if elected to office. 

That is a really great point. Could you imagine someone running on Sharia law? Or someone running as an Hasdic Jew wanting to run on those principles?

 

Obvioulsy those are a bit of apples to oranges comparions, but the damage that a guy like Huckabee would try to do (mostly to women and gays) is fritening and at least a tad bit comparable.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Encouraging a society to be watchful of religious extremism may accomplish just that.  There's actually no one running on Sharia law, but Huckabee is still in race, promising to jettison the law in the name of his religion if elected to office. 

 

I think most Christians are not in quite that league of extremism either.  It's just not close and guys like Huckabee are still (thankfully) fringe candidates.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Uh, there are plenty of legit reasons for people to question much of what Israel has done and continues to do. They shoulder their fare share of the blame IMO.

Back on topic, Carsor is far too smart to "accidently" make a gaffe like that, it is clear he was just trying to appeal to the far right of the republican party (the same ones that still scream: Obama is a MUSLIM!?!?!)

 

Huckabee would try to do (mostly to women and gays) is fritening and at least a tad bit comparable.

 

Is Huckabee going to throw gay people off buildings?  Or stone women in the street for "adultery"?

 

No?  Ok, then let's stop with these comparisons.  Yes, Kim Davis is a repugnant moron, but that is a FAR cry from what is happening to gays, women, jews, christians, and peaceful, modern muslims at the hands of many followes of Islam.  So let's never even suggest with a straight face that there is a comparison.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Is Huckabee going to throw gay people off buildings?  Or stone women in the street for "adultery"?

Relatively to what anyone else would do, Huckabee's idealized America is pretty scary.  That there are some scarier people in underdeveloped countries shouldn't even be a point that needs to be made. 

 

This whole, "he's a nice guy, but a far cry from Jesus" or "he's a dumbass, but a far cry from Hitler" argument just needs to stop. It's a straw man.   I can call Huckabee and Kim Davis extreme without the need for anyone to point out to me that there are more radical extremist elsewhere in the world and in history. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Relatively to what anyone else would do, Huckabee's idealized America is pretty scary.  That there are some scarier people in underdeveloped countries shouldn't even be a point that needs to be made. 

 

This whole, "he's a nice guy, but a far cry from Jesus" or "he's a dumbass, but a far cry from Hitler" argument just needs to stop. It's a straw man.   I can call Huckabee and Kim Davis extreme without the need for anyone to point out to me that there are more extremist elsewhere in the world and in history. 

 

Except that it does need to be made.  This is the equivalent of "first world problems" as a political ideology.  We've lost all context for what real evil and awful behavior looks like if we think Huckabee is some kind of face of it.  

 

Liberals are the first to point out how the rich lack perspective precisely because they ignore the plight of those less fortunate.  Or how rich white male politicians are quick to ignore the problems of women to suit their own interests.  If you're going to make this argument - you're guilty of the same kind of flawed, narrow thinking.  

 

That distinction matters even more when you climb on your soapbox to yell "racist!" everytime someone points out what is happening elsewhere.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Except that it does need to be made.  

No it doesn't.  You have no reason to presume that any of us are insensitive to the plights of those suffering far from our shores. 

[twinsnorth49]

 

At a minimum, I think it causes people to lose focus and motivation. I had friends in college, and myself, who changed majors or dropped out due to missing class or falling behind in studies. All of us daily pot users. I'd also argue it causes anxiety and depression for a lot of people. But these are harder things to prove than the direct physiological impact of alcohol on your liver, for example, so a lot of people are skeptical. Pot's more insidious.

Pots more insidious than alcohol? I'd argue that it causes all of the things you list above and many more, it's far more insidious than pot and yet the over consumption of it is pretty much encouraged.

[DaveW]

 

Pots more insidious than alcohol? I'd argue that it causes all of the things you list above and many more, it's far more insidious than pot and yet the over consumption of it is pretty much encouraged.

Yeah, I think the "pot caused people to drop out of school" theory is lazy personally, they dropped out of school because they were lazy in general. Personally, from what I have seen from peers, co workers, and life in general, booze has caused a lot more people to "lose" themselves in school, professional lives, relationships then pot has ever had (and it's not even close)

 

As far as anxiety or any real side effect? Numerous studies have shown that isn't the case at all when it comes to pot. Lazy people will remain lazy, non lazy people will remain non lazy.

[Willihammer]

Pots more insidious than alcohol? I'd argue that it causes all of the things you list above and many more, it's far more insidious than pot and yet the over consumption of it is pretty much encouraged.

I said it was more insidious as in the side effects aren't as obvious with alcohol or tobacco. Its not a completely benign thing as some people seem to think.

 

The culture around alcohol in north America is reason to pause before legalizing other drugs. As soon as corporate money, marketing and the rest of it get into the game we are going down a road we might regret. Decriminalize, absolutely. Legalize, I'm not so sure.

[twinsnorth49]

Yeah, I think the "pot caused people to drop out of school" theory is lazy personally, they dropped out of school because they were lazy in general. Personally, from what I have seen from peers, co workers, and life in general, booze has caused a lot more people to "lose" themselves in school, professional lives, relationships then pot has ever had (and it's not even close)

 

As far as anxiety or any real side effect? Numerous studies have shown that isn't the case at all when it comes to pot. Lazy people will remain lazy, non lazy people will remain non lazy.

Agreed, throughout my University career I saw far more destruction from booze than I did from weed. If you're a lazy ass riding through school on your parents dime and smoking dope, then the dope isn't your issue. Your issue is you're a lazy ass.

 

Booze is a different animal and what makes it worse is it's a socially acceptable and encouraged behaviour. Alcoholism is a real disease, it's widespread and effects millions, from all social classes and without many of them even knowing it or being able to get help. Yet we spend all this time trying to discourage and rehabilitate pot smokers while alcoholics are left to find help in anonymity.

 

Marijuana has been used medicinally for centuries. It's used in many instances to treat mood disorders such as anxiety and depression. In fact, that might be one of the strongest arguments for widespread legalisation, it would allow for far better control on the amount of the various substances that are present in pot. They can be increased or decreased as required.

 

I've known a number of people, some very close to me, who have used Marijuana to help treat disease and illness, none of them were encouraged to drink however.

 

The only time I've ever heard of alcohol being used medicinally is to cauterize a wound caused in a bar fight.

[Willihammer]

Welp we've destroyed the strawman who said pot was worse than alcohol.

 

Can we move on to discussing weed on its own merits now?

[twinsnorth49]

I said it was more insidious as in the side effects aren't as obvious with alcohol or tobacco. Its not a completely benign thing as some people seem to think.

 

The culture around alcohol in north America is reason to pause before legalizing other drugs. As soon as corporate money, marketing and the rest of it get into the game we are going down a road we might regret. Decriminalize, absolutely. Legalize, I'm not so sure.

Well I still disagree, there are millions of high functioning alcoholics you'd never guess we're suffering. Partly out of shame and partly because it has the aura of normalcy to it.

 

I agree with you that it would be very regretful to see it take the same path as alcohol and tobacco when it comes to marketing it to the public

[Willihammer]

Yeah, I think the "pot caused people to drop out of school" theory is lazy personally, they dropped out of school because they were lazy in general. Personally, from what I have seen from peers, co workers, and life in general, booze has caused a lot more people to "lose" themselves in school, professional lives, relationships then pot has ever had (and it's not even close)

 

As far as anxiety or any real side effect? Numerous studies have shown that isn't the case at all when it comes to pot. Lazy people will remain lazy, non lazy people will remain non lazy.

Source?

[TheLeviathan]

No it doesn't.  You have no reason to presume that any of us are insensitive to the plights of those suffering far from our shores.

 

The reason to presume would be all the outrage directed at Kim Davis and American Christians by the same political spectrum that relentlessly downplays the actions of Islam around the world.

 

People get inconvenienced by a moron in Tennessee and we have huge moral outrage. People get thrown off a building and the primary concern is to remind everyone not all Muslims are like that. WTF? if it's not insensitive it's at the very least obnoxiously hypocritical.

[Mike Sixel]

My choice is not between Sharia law candidates and Huckabee or any other Christian that wants to impose their religion on me. It is between those that want to take away freedoms (select ones in the Bible, just the ones they want), and those that don't (but have their own issues).

 

I'd rather have freedom and bad decisions by Democrats, than less freedom and maybe better (but probably not) decisions by Republicans. It's that simple for me.

[USAFChief]

Welp we've destroyed the strawman who said pot was worse than alcohol.Can we move on to discussing weed on its own merits now?

I see few "merits" to pot use.

 

The issue for me is, while I see downside to pot use, that downside is far outweighed by the downsides of making pot illegal. We waste money unsuccessfully trying to stop trafficking, create a huge black market that encourages violence, and foster disrespect for law among otherwise good citizens.

 

The cure is far worse than the disease, and as a bonus, isn't a cure, since people who want to use pot pretty much all do so anyway.

 

As posted before, the similarities to prohibition are remarkable.