2016 Election Thread

[mikecgrimes]

 

The problem is though, the Tea Party/Trumps/Carsons of the world are attracting a decent sized chunk of the GOP.

  trump is a Democrat, I get why Democrats pretend he's part of the tea party.  And some people who think they are tea party Republicans support him, but it's simple to know if you are an actual a supporter of the tea party.  If Rick Satori's speech on CNBC in 2009 mattered to you you are, if it didn't you aren't.

[Squirrel]

 

  trump is a Democrat, I get why Democrats pretend he's part of the tea party.  And some people who think they are tea party Republicans support him, but it's simple to know if you are an actual a supporter of the tea party.  If Rick Satori's speech on CNBC in 2009 mattered to you you are, if it didn't you aren't.

Trump is NOT a Democrat. He's not even a liberal. I know you think it's some sort of conspiracy by the Democrats to support Trump to upset the Republican party, but that is just ridiculous. Every Democrat I know, every liberal I know, and many Independents I know, even many conservatives I know ... are appalled by his rhetoric and are against much of what he stands for.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This is why Cruz will win.  Cruz can't sell out his principals for a failed political stratigy that doesn't have the #'s on it's side.  My vote is just as valuable as any moderates.  In fact a moderates vote is worthless because they won't have your back while in office, just like they don't have Obama's back despite voting for him.

You understand how elections are actually won, right?

 

Presidential elections are not won by the partisan vote.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

  trump is a Democrat, I get why Democrats pretend he's part of the tea party.  And some people who think they are tea party Republicans support him, but it's simple to know if you are an actual a supporter of the tea party.  If Rick Satori's speech on CNBC in 2009 mattered to you you are, if it didn't you aren't.

You're right, he's a Democrat... Which is why he agrees with the Democrat party line on all the issues. It's why Democrats are lining up to slightly tweak Trump's approach to immigrants and refugees to get a leg up on the rest of the party. It's why Trump's supporters are registered Democrats.

 

Have I made my point yet?

 

[DaveW]

 

You're right, he's a Democrat... Which is why he agrees with the Democrat party line on all the issues. It's why Democrats are lining up to slightly tweak Trump's approach to immigrants and refugees to get a leg up on the rest of the party. It's why Trump's supporters are registered Democrats.

 

Have I made my point yet?

Wake up sheeple!

[TheLeviathan]

 

You understand how elections are actually won, right?

 

Presidential elections are not won by the partisan vote.

 

This.  Cruz will do nothing more (and I'm not even sure he can do this) but carry the partisan vote.  He make actually drive voters to Hillary.  

 

Elections are not won by the bases, it's why Bush and Obama won, both of them appealed to moderates in the middle.  (Or, their opponents didn't in some cases and they got the votes by default)

[biggentleben]

 

This.  Cruz will do nothing more (and I'm not even sure he can do this) but carry the partisan vote.  He make actually drive voters to Hillary.  

 

Elections are not won by the bases, it's why Bush and Obama won, both of them appealed to moderates in the middle.  (Or, their opponents didn't in some cases and they got the votes by default)

 

And that is why the president and Congress will continue to have issues in our modern politics. You have to be a moderate to win a national election, no way around it, but the Congress is a whole other ball game.

 

Local (read: state) elections are won frequently by partisan candidates. Kristi Noem is a deplorable politician, and I'd not want her anywhere near my family as a person, but she has an "R" next to her name, so unless there's a truly outstanding candidate opposing her, she'll take South Dakota as a Representative for as long as she wants to. Certain states will likely never see a Democrat as a governor, likewise certain states will never see a true, hard core Republican have a chance in a Senate election.

[stringer bell]

OK, OK, Trump isn't really a Republican, but he's not a Democrat. I think Michael Che's riff on SNL was spot on. He's saying what a specific constituency wants to hear and combining it with his special brand of bombast. It seems to be working so far, but I doubt it will continue for much longer.

 

I think Ben is right about Congress vs. President to a degree. Congressional elections (especially off year elections) are won by getting the base out and Republicans have done that much better than Democrats as a rule (2006 a notable exception). Presidential candidates always veer as far to the extreme as they can to gather up "the base" for their party and then run towards the middle. I would debate whether moderates get the nomination and whether one has to be a moderate to win. Reagan wasn't a moderate and won two of the biggest margins (electoral vote) of all time. (First against an incumbent, second in terms of margins any time).

 

I said earlier that I thought the Republican would be the favorite to win and I still believe so despite what Vegas might say right now. The fundamentals favor a Republican, as long as he's not too extreme. Right track/wrong track, two terms out of office, low opinion of the current chief executive all point toward a Republican win.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

And that is why the president and Congress will continue to have issues in our modern politics. You have to be a moderate to win a national election, no way around it, but the Congress is a whole other ball game.

Yep, exactly. It's why the GOP dominates Congress - the House in particular - and why I don't see them winning the White House until they come back to the middle.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Yep, exactly. It's why the GOP dominates Congress - the House in particular - and why I don't see them winning the White House until they come back to the middle.

 

That's the key.  Romney would be an absolutely excellent candidate this year.

 

The problem is the Republican base and the way they cannibalize their own, forcing them to say ridiculously stupid things to prove their "conservative" chops.

[mikecgrimes]

 

Trump is NOT a Democrat. He's not even a liberal. I know you think it's some sort of conspiracy by the Democrats to support Trump to upset the Republican party, but that is just ridiculous. Every Democrat I know, every liberal I know, and many Independents I know, even many conservatives I know ... are appalled by his rhetoric and are against much of what he stands for.

 

Odd that Democrats seem to know what he stands for, I sure don't I know the crap that comes out of his mouth, but everythime he tries to give details he either falls way short or makes it clear he's never left the Democrat party.

[mikecgrimes]

 

You understand how elections are actually won, right?

 

Presidential elections are not won by the partisan vote.

 

Political skill being the key factor, and Cruz has it.

[mikecgrimes]

 

You're right, he's a Democrat... Which is why he agrees with the Democrat party line on all the issues. It's why Democrats are lining up to slightly tweak Trump's approach to immigrants and refugees to get a leg up on the rest of the party. It's why Trump's supporters are registered Democrats.

 

Have I made my point yet?

I never said he was supported by Democrats, much like Steven Colbert played pretend Republican Trump is clearly doing the same.  In politics what they want you to think is going on and what actually is going on are almost never the same thing.

[biggentleben]

 

Political skill being the key factor, and Cruz has it.

 

Not on the national scale. Cruz will (and has already significantly done so) isolate the moderate/undecided voter, and that's where you win a presidential election.

[PseudoSABR]

 

 the crap that comes out of his mouth....makes it clear he's never left the Democrat party.

You're gonna have to specific here.  What on earth has Trump said during the campaign that makes it clear he's never left the Democrat Party?  

[Squirrel]

You're gonna have to specific here.  What on earth has Trump said during the campaign that makes it clear he's never left the Democrat Party?

 

Must be the time he said all Muslims should wear ID, and how all Mosques should be closed and that Muslims shouldn't be allowed into the country, even those who are U.S. citizens. Oh, no, wait. That was Hitler.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

 

 

All I'm suggesting is to leave room for changing your mind, and if the election is close consider choosing the lesser of two evils.  That's not fear-mongering, that's being reasonable about the democratic process.   

 

 

 

At 38 years young, all I've seen is the lesser of two evils... and to be honest, at this point, that makes me fear for America more.  As long as we keep voting for the lesser of 2 evils, we get evil people.  That's why our election will likely be Trump vs. Clinton... yet voters will pick one or the other instead of telling both parties to shove it. 

[biggentleben]

 

At 38 years young, all I've seen is the lesser of two evils... and to be honest, at this point, that makes me fear for America more.  As long as we keep voting for the lesser of 2 evils, we get evil people.  That's why our election will likely be Trump vs. Clinton... yet voters will pick one or the other instead of telling both parties to shove it. 

 

And the person in that office matters about as much toward actual policy in the country as what color shoes I wear, sadly, outside of PR purposes for the nation.

 

Our Congressional representatives tend to play our president like a puppet. And yet, instead of telling those parties that do exactly that to the President and reduce that person to a glorified royalty with minimal political impact and more of a figurehead status than anything, the voters take those parties to their deepest extremes at every election cycle, creating a deeper and deeper gridlock in Washington.

 

Really, regardless of the President elected, we get what we deserve out of our politics in Washington because we so deeply dive into the ends of the parties, not because we try to buck them.

[mikecgrimes]

 

You're gonna have to specific here.  What on earth has Trump said during the campaign that makes it clear he's never left the Democrat Party?  

 

He was asked if he would pledge to support the Republican nominee and he wouldn't.  He's had hours and hours and hours of interviews to prove he's something othert then a Democrat and he's never done it.

[mikecgrimes]

 

 

At 38 years young, all I've seen is the lesser of two evils... and to be honest, at this point, that makes me fear for America more.  As long as we keep voting for the lesser of 2 evils, we get evil people.  That's why our election will likely be Trump vs. Clinton... yet voters will pick one or the other instead of telling both parties to shove it. 

 

Again show up at caucuses, thats where the entire process happens.

[TheLeviathan]

 

He was asked if he would pledge to support the Republican nominee and he wouldn't.  He's had hours and hours and hours of interviews to prove he's something othert then a Democrat and he's never done it.

 

That's all you got?

[DaveW]

 

He was asked if he would pledge to support the Republican nominee and he wouldn't.  He's had hours and hours and hours of interviews to prove he's something othert then a Democrat and he's never done it.

Trump is certainly not a Democrat.

Trump is most likely not a republican (like 95%)

Trump most certainly is a jackass.

[PseudoSABR]

I'm watching the debate, and Trump did say we should have utilized the trillions spent on toppling dictators, on building bridges, hospitals, etc.  (Fiorina offered: That's what Obama says.)  So there's that.  I wonder if Trump's ego has lead him to start prepping for the general election, and his inevitable lurch to the middle.

 

Trump is clearly a foil, a phony, but what's really dismaying is that his unconstitutional hate rhetoric is jiving with the Republican base.

[Hrbowski]

This debate is between the Libertarians (Cruz, Paul) and the Neocons (the rest). 

[TheLeviathan]

Cruz is a libertarian?  

 

You should perhaps look into what a libertarian actually is.  Cuz it damn sure isn't Gomer Cruz.

[PseudoSABR]

 

This debate is between the Libertarians (Cruz, Paul) and the Neocons (the rest). 

Who do you find persuasive? Just curious.

[Hrbowski]

 

Cruz is a libertarian?  

 

You should perhaps look into what a libertarian actually is.  Cuz it damn sure isn't Gomer Cruz.

Just as much as Paul.

[Hrbowski]

 

Who do you find persuasive? Just curious.

Certainly not the Neocons. All they want is less freedom and more wars, just like Clinton and Obama.

[Hrbowski]

Ted Cruz is announcing his support of Bill Clinton!

[TheLeviathan]

 

Just as much as Paul.

 

Well that's just false.

 

Cruz is absolutely not a libertarian.  You clearly don't understand what that means.