Rusney Castillo

[jokin]

The Twins are certainly more conservative and risk adverse than the White Sox.

 

How about the Cubs?  They only spent 9 yr/$30M on Soler,  he is slated to be called up this week at the age of 22.... and he appears he's going to be a monster.

[bird]

Or that they aren't willing to take the risk that Hahn was willing to take.

Great call by the Whities for sure. They were highly motivated to take the extra risk here. A few other teams had similar motivation. The Twins and others not so much. At the time, Chicago was looking very old on paper. Their farm system was horrible, ranked as no better than third worst in all of baseball. One of their biggest needs was a replacement at 1B. Another need was to make an off-season splash to re-energize their fan base.So they took a gamble and it looks like they hit the jackpot. Hahn looks like a genius right now because Abreu and other moves look like big winners.

 

Good for them. Still, chastising and harshly criticizing teams that passed on a particular opportunity is narrow. Hahn needed pitching too. He passed on Hughes. Does that make him incompetent or risk-averse and Ryan a risk-embracing genius?

[Otto von Ballpark]

For context, do you know how many international free agents had a bonus larger than Cabrera when he signed? It was less than ten, an I think he was top 5 all time.

 

To complain about the Twins not spending more at the time is to complain that they never signed one of the top 5 all time bonuses, which, considering the financial situation they were dealing with at the time, seems a little unfair.

Cabrera was just one example. The record Latin American bonus was still under $2.5 mil almost 10 years later, when the Twins MLB payroll was $71 mil.

[nicksaviking]

Are you sure you want to take a controversial position like the Twins should have signed guys that turned out to be good.

 

I think you quoted the wrong post.  I've re-read it several times now and can't find that reference in my original.  My position, which while allegorical still seems pretty clear, is that Ryan is too often a wallflower who jumps on baseball theories long after the novelty wears off and is left at the tail end of innovation.  There is little room for conservatism in the front offices of winning professional sports franchises. 

[nicksaviking]

The Twins are certainly more conservative and risk adverse than the White Sox.

 

Which is pretty much the premise that those of us asking Ryan to do better are rallying against.

 

Conservatism according to Merriam-Webster (and I'll leave the more overt political definition out for obvious reasons)

: dislike of change or new ideas in a particular area

 

I'm not sure why that is an acceptable philosophy for any baseball fan.  I do not want a conservative GM, we should expect more open-mindedness.

[Monkeypaws]

 

I'm not sure why that is an acceptable philosophy for any baseball fan.  I do not want a conservative GM, we should expect more open-mindedness.

sometimes open mindedness can bite you in the butt: Nishi, Delmon, perhaps Nolasco (though not tonight).

 

Draft and develop should always be the founding principle imo - free agents and trades happen when you have needs and the pieces available to make the deals you need. We can see some surplus building up in the infield now, and thet should be parleyed into filling needs in other areas.

 

The Twins are 100% on the right track for me. Build up the system, and good things will happen.

 

Wild spending sprees only make sense if you are a piece or two away from contending. It's no way to build a team, especially a middle of the pack team like the Twins.

[nicksaviking]

sometimes open mindedness can bite you in the butt: Nishi, Delmon, perhaps Nolasco (though not tonight).

 

Draft and develop should always be the founding principle imo - free agents and trades happen when you have needs and the pieces available to make the deals you need. We can see some surplus building up in the infield now, and thet should be parleyed into filling needs in other areas.

 

The Twins are 100% on the right track for me. Build up the system, and good things will happen.

 

Wild spending sprees only make sense if you are a piece or two away from contending. It's no way to build a team, especially a middle of the pack team like the Twins.

 

No one's asking for wild spending sprees.  We are asking for innovation, or at least jumping on the bandwagon early of new ideas and practices.  Of course the Twins need to build from within, but recognizing Cubans would be a good return on investment would have helped.  Just as getting on board with advanced statistics a decade earlier, or realizing the game was shifting toward the benefit of strikeout pitchers, or understanding that defensive shifts are a great way to keep balls from leaving the infield.  I don't want my team being among the last to embrace these ideas.   

[bird]

No one's asking for wild spending sprees.  We are asking for innovation, or at least jumping on the bandwagon early of new ideas and practices.  Of course the Twins need to build from within, but recognizing Cubans would be a good return on investment would have helped.  Just as getting on board with advanced statistics a decade earlier, or realizing the game was shifting toward the benefit of strikeout pitchers, or understanding that defensive shifts are a great way to keep balls from leaving the infield.  I don't want my team being among the last to embrace these ideas.

 

Every one of these criticisms, to me, is right on the money, nick. As you know, I push back on what I perceive to be overly harsh or unfair criticism, and these are fair. And we would likely have enjoyed a few more wins in a given season were the Twins earlier adopters of these practices.

 

You made your point so sensibly. No crazy hyperbole, no clownish conclusions, and no character assassinations or name-calling. We should all emulate you. And the Cards of course. But not the Rays. Definitely not the Rays.

[nicksaviking]

Every one of these criticisms, to me, is right on the money, nick. As you know, I push back on what I perceive to be overly harsh or unfair criticism, and these are fair. And we would likely have enjoyed a few more wins in a given season were the Twins earlier adopters of these practices.

 

You made your point so sensibly. No crazy hyperbole, no clownish conclusions, and no character assassinations or name-calling. We should all emulate you. And the Cards of course. But not the Rays. Definitely not the Rays.

 

Geez, you make me blush.  The absence of hyperbole was probably due to a lack of sleep is all.

[The Wise One]

No one's asking for wild spending sprees.  We are asking for innovation, or at least jumping on the bandwagon early of new ideas and practices.  Of course the Twins need to build from within, but recognizing Cubans would be a good return on investment would have helped.  Just as getting on board with advanced statistics a decade earlier, or realizing the game was shifting toward the benefit of strikeout pitchers, or understanding that defensive shifts are a great way to keep balls from leaving the infield.  I don't want my team being among the last to embrace these ideas.   

Not every Cuban has been a good return on investment. It becomes a good investment if the money spent buys a very above average player. Arrubarrea signed for 5/25 as a shortstop but used a little bit as utility. Much like Escobar. Escept Escobar has played this whole season in the majors whil the other guy has only played in 12 mlb games.   Escobar for the next few years would be much cheaper than Arrubarrea. To make it a return on your investment, Attubarrrea would have to perform at a higher level than escobar has. Plouffe came up the same year as Viciedio, which has had a better career? Which has cost  less money? It is a good return on investment only if they are a wa above average player.

  Getting on board with advanced statistics as a way to win.  Alderson worked with Beane on advance statisics theories. Where did that knowledge help the San Digo Padres during Alderson's tenure there? Statistics tell you what happened. Get enough different statistics you can paint a picture why. You aren't always able to project scoutng high schol and college player, nor 16 year old IFA. with statistics.

That Ryan did not look for strikeout pitchers is an interesting claim. Did you forget Adam Johnson was a stikeout pitcher in college. Scott Tyler was a high strikeout guy. Perkins was a stikeout guy.

I don't think shifts help much when you can't be certain your pitchers wo't leave the ball out over the plate to be hit the other way. Ironically shifting works better with control pitchers as you are pitching to contact.

[drjim]

No one's asking for wild spending sprees.  We are asking for innovation, or at least jumping on the bandwagon early of new ideas and practices.  Of course the Twins need to build from within, but recognizing Cubans would be a good return on investment would have helped.  Just as getting on board with advanced statistics a decade earlier, or realizing the game was shifting toward the benefit of strikeout pitchers, or understanding that defensive shifts are a great way to keep balls from leaving the infield.  I don't want my team being among the last to embrace these ideas.   

 

I'm certainly in favor of innovation, especially the ones that work out. I think it is really overstated that the Twins are the "last" to embrace these advances, they are definitely more middle of the pack, but I certainly agree they aren't cutting edge - at least on the items that have gone mainstream, but it is not like they are unwilling to embrace and implement information.

 

One thing I think about the Twins regarding this, is that they should know who they are and do it the best. If they merely copy more innovative franchises, they will be the same but worse and late.

 

They should leverage their own strengths and I think they do - they are a stable franchise that promotes from within, they are very strong in scouting (especially internationally), they have rebuilt their development apparatus, they do some unique things in the draft that may turn up value (college relievers into starters), etc.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

I don't see failing to sign Rusney Castillo as a lack of innovation.

 

Signing guys from Europe and Australia when no one else is doing it is innovation. Maybe they can find some athletes in SE Asia, or India, or Africa, or South America (beyond Venezuela). Tapping an untapped market is innovation. Maybe they should be the first to bring a training school to the Phillipines, where baseball was once very popular.

 

There are big names coming out of Cuba, but for every big name there are dozens of human beings that are spending their families' meager remaining $$ for the chance to play professionally and traveling in extremely dangerous conditions.

 

We got to read the harrowing journey that Yasiel Puig took to get to the Dodgers, how many stories do we never hear about that turned out much worse?

 

I wonder if the new commissioner will do something more proactive about Cuban players to help ensure the safe passage of refugees seeking asylum - or at least open a dialogue with the U.S. government about what can/should be done. Maybe MLB doesn't have any responsibility to these people that are trying to get here, but personally I think they do. Cuba has been a big part of major league baseball's talent pool since the league lifted the ban on non-white players.   

[JB_Iowa]

No good return on investment of any player from anywhere is a sure thing.

 

The Twins need to evaluate Cuban players as they would any others before making an investment.

 

All that I ask as a fan is that it look like they are giving it a fair shot -- and while the evidence may be incomplete, they look reluctant to enter the Cuban arena.

[drjim]

No good return on investment of any player from anywhere is a sure thing.

 

The Twins need to evaluate Cuban players as they would any others before making an investment.

 

All that I ask as a fan is that it look like they are giving it a fair shot -- and while the evidence may be incomplete, they look reluctant to enter the Cuban arena.

 

I would say with pretty high confidence that they are quite aware of all Cuban players and have scouted as extensively as any other team. I base this assumption on the work they do overall in the international arena. Doesn't mean they are right in their evaluations and certainly doesn't mean they shouldn't splurge on occasion, but the issue isn't a failure to give it a "fair shot". 

[Willihammer]

Rusney Castillo debuts tonight in the Red Sox vs. Pirates game.

 

Liriano pitching too.