Article: The Rundown: Shortstop Shakeup

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm quite sure that you determining that my opinion on a thread being not worthy of discussion is specifically against TD policy, as is talking down to me like your opinion is superior to mine.

 

I never said it was unworthy of discussion. I said it was unworthy of excitement and/or dismay.

 

Let's see how long it is tolerated if I go around "rolling my eyes" at others opinions.

 

I've been posting on baseball message boards for 15 years. Somewhere around 1-3 times a season, a player is traded or let go and people tear at their hair over the deal.

 

Once has that player turned into something meaningful within a reasonable time frame. A certain DH for the Red Sox. I think we all know his name.

 

So, yeah, you go through this dog-and-pony show enough times, you start to roll your eyes. If you take offense to that, so be it.

[oldguy10]

A few years ago the Twins had the Yankees Solarte and somehow gave him up to acquire Florimon, it is all documented at www.baseball-reference.com if anyone cares to look. Why would they have done that? I believe Solarte is Jeter's heir apparent and Florimon is, well, not likely to be in MLB in about two years.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A few years ago the Twins had the Yankees Solarte and somehow gave him up to acquire Florimon, it is all documented at www.baseball-reference.com if anyone cares to look. Why would they have done that? I believe Solarte is Jeter's heir apparent and Florimon is, well, not likely to be in MLB in about two years.

 

Good point about Solarte. I forgot about him... I'm hesitant to call him an MLB starter but he's looked good thus far, that's for sure.

 

Man, the Twins sure make a lot of bad decisions about middle infielders.

[Mr. Brooks]

A few years ago the Twins had the Yankees Solarte and somehow gave him up to acquire Florimon, it is all documented at www.baseball-reference.com if anyone cares to look. Why would they have done that? I believe Solarte is Jeter's heir apparent and Florimon is, well, not likely to be in MLB in about two years.

 

If you want to gnash your teeth over a meaningless roster maneuver, go right ahead. I don't care about either of them.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If you want to gnash your teeth over a meaningless roster maneuver, go right ahead. I don't care about either of them.

 

Now you understand. Congratulations!

 

Even if someone was right about Solarte (and I don't remember anyone raising an objection at the time), chances are that they were wrong about 75% of the Twins' other moves in recent years... And that's the point. Most of these moves don't matter. A few do matter.

 

And since few of us actually get to see these men play baseball and have no first-hand knowledge of their personalities, work ethic, or how they fit into the organization as a whole, we're wildly spraying opinions without much in the way of actual knowledge to back it up.

 

And that gets pretty tiring after a time.

[Brock Beauchamp]

To add a footnote about Solarte, he was acquired as a six year free agent. Not much you can do about that. The Rangers didn't fall over themselves to keep him around, as he posted a .735-ish OPS in 263 AAA games for them. Nice pick-up by the Yankees and we'll see if it actually works in the long-term, not over ~50 PAs.

[Mike Sixel]

I guess, if the thread is about SS.....I don't get why talking about the (lack of andy even marginal) SS in the system is not worth doing. It's not like this is a thread about Mauer, or one of the players "that does matter", as if a MLB should just give away a roster spot.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I guess, if the thread is about SS.....I don't get why talking about the (lack of andy even marginal) SS in the system is not worth doing. It's not like this is a thread about Mauer, or one of the players "that does matter", as if a MLB should just give away a roster spot.

 

Again, it's very much worth talking about... It's not worth getting upset or excited about.

 

I'm mildly intrigued by Nunez as a player. He's a failed prospect traded for a C/C- prospect.

 

Do I expect anything from him? No, not at all. Will I follow his development? Absolutely.

 

Am I going to raise a fuss about him or Sulbaran? Absolutely not.

[Mike Sixel]

I am going to keep making a fuss over Ryan's inability to find a SS, among his many other shortcomings.....

[Craig Arko]

I am going to keep making a fuss over Ryan's inability to find a SS, among his many other shortcomings.....

 

We know.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I am going to keep making a fuss over Ryan's inability to find a SS, among his many other shortcomings.....

 

Well, then you should be somewhat interested that they just picked one up.

 

If Nunez even qualifies as a shortstop at this point.

 

But I understand your pain. The Twins' shortstop situation is beyond aggravating and has been for the better part of two decades. I hope that they see something real in Nunez but in all likelihood, he's just another Escobar/Florimon retread.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

A question from the cheap seats: I've seen James Beresford play a few times. Not enough to know what his upside is--especially at shortstop. He played only 4 games at short in 2013, but 60 games in 2012. He's hit at every level, and seems a better leadoff option than anyone on the 25 man roster. He's also 2 1/2 years younger than Nunez. Here's Beresford's #'s http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=beresf001jam

 

Any chance he gets called up? Gets another shot at the six hole?

[Mike Sixel]

I don't know why they wouldn't roll the die on Beresford. Could he possibly hit worse than Floriman?

[big dog]

Shortstop right now is reminding me of the baddest of bad old days, with Lenny Faedo and Houston Jiminez playing for the Twins. I was willing to trade a weak bat for Flori's D, but I'm not willing to trade a whiffle bat for it. Bring on Esco/Nunez/whomever. See if Flori can figure things out in Rochester.

 

Regarding the loss of marginal players mentioned a page or two back, Presley currently has a .444 OPS in Houston, 36 ABs with 9 Ks. Yikes. I feel badly for him. Maybe he should try shortstop.

-edit- On the bright side, he hasn't been caught stealing yet...

[cmathewson]

Beresford and Santana are both better options at this point. To your frustration Mike, I think they saw this coming, but they wanted to see it play out rather than get Drew or someone. Until I see how the young 'uns play, I don't feel qualified to criticize. Drew was a push at the price for this year. Next year, I'd like someone better. I think Santana could be that guy.

 

But Beresford is intriguing. Perhaps he has turned some sort of corner. A lot of Aussie players are slow developers because they just have such a long learning curve. At one time, he signed the largest FA contract ever by an Australian at $450,000 (to be later eclipsed by Lewis Thorpe). He repeated low A and AA, but pretty much progressed a level at a time otherwise, but never really hit much at any level. His best OPS is .721 as a 24 year old repeating AA. His career OPS is comparable to Florimon and Escobar (.669).

 

I had all but given up on him for the same reason a lot of folks around here gave up on Florimon. You can't teach contact. But this year, he's really hitting the ball. He's obviously due for a huge regression, so I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for this hot streak. But maybe he's found something worth following.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, if the young uns don't work out, there is no SS on FA next year that is all that good, or healthy, or even as young as Drew is.....so they young uns better work out.

[Craig Arko]

I understand T.C. Bear can really flash the leather. Don't know how he is at advancing runners.

 

Big hit with both the fans and the FO, though.

[cmathewson]

Mike Aviles *

Asdrubal Cabrera

Yunel Escobar *

Alex Gonzalez

J.J. Hardy

Jed Lowrie

Jimmy Rollins *

 

I'll take Hardy over Drew every day of the week. Cabrera as well. Then again, I'm not as high on Drew as you are. 2013 was a career year for him. He's played some ugly defense in prior years.

[Mike Sixel]

If I thought Hardy could stay healthy every day of the week, I would too.....

[Mike Sixel]

BTW, Escobar was already signed to an extension by the Rays.....so scratch him off your list.

[cmathewson]

If I thought Hardy could stay healthy every day of the week, I would too.....

 

Hardy's played in 317 games the last two years. Drew doesn't exactly have a great injury track record. Last year, he managed 124 games. Prior to that, you'd have to go back to 2010 to find a year when he played in more than 86. As I said, last year was a career year.

[Mike Sixel]

Huh, my bad, I though Hardy was hurt last year. thanks, makes me feel a bit better about their options....I guess.

[cmathewson]

Huh, my bad, I though Hardy was hurt last year. thanks, makes me feel a bit better about their options....I guess.

 

Brock's point about Hardy is gut wrenching. Assuming they had not traded him and instead used Nishioka's money (plus some of the surplus) to sign him to a long-term deal, just think of the stability at that position such a move would have enabled. <shakes head>

[oldguy10]

Wouldn't the Twins have been far better off signing Solarte even as a six year free agent than casting their lot with Florimon? I sure think so and I find it hard to disagree with my statement when one looks at Florimon's hitting stats.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Wouldn't the Twins have been far better off signing Solarte even as a six year free agent than casting their lot with Florimon? I sure think so and I find it hard to disagree with my statement when one looks at Florimon's hitting stats.

 

Personally, I think so.

 

Then again, my dislike for Florimon is quite well known.

[Thrylos]

Beresford's ceiling is Jamey Carroll. And he is not a shortstop. Utility guy at best.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Beresford's ceiling is Jamey Carroll. And he is not a shortstop. Utility guy at best.

 

Would you rather have a 24 year old Jamey Carroll, or a Pedro Florimon?

[Brock Beauchamp]

What's funny is that a 24 year old Jamey Carroll was a pretty bad player.

 

A 34 year old Jamey Carroll, on the other hand... He's a pretty valuable guy to have around.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

What's funny is that a 24 year old Jamey Carroll was a pretty bad player.

 

A 34 year old Jamey Carroll, on the other hand... He's a pretty valuable guy to have around.

 

Yep, a late bloomer. It's interesting to see some of the infielders ahead of Carroll in the Expos organization. Jose Vidro; Orlando Cabrera, etc... Here's a link to Carroll: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/carroja01.shtml

 

If Beresford is also a late bloomer, via the Australian leagues, he could be an option. I like his .363 OBP last season. He doesn't walk much (30 BB in 2013; 35 in 2012) but doesn't strike out either (51 k's in 2013; 53 in 2012). Dozier, on the other hand, struck out 120 times last year.

 

The options at middle infield will expand in about 40 games when Rosario joins Nunez, Santana, Dozier, Florimon, and Escobar. If Beresford continues to rake (.436/.486/.531 in 9 games) he should be added to the mix.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

What's funny is that a 24 year old Jamey Carroll was a pretty bad player.

 

A 34 year old Jamey Carroll, on the other hand... He's a pretty valuable guy to have around.

 

So, you want a 34 year old Pedro Florimon…