Reminds me of when I rant on here about the fact that Eddie Rosario brought intangible things to the Twins that no analytic could measure and then I get bombarded with a dozen analytic arguments.  While Eddie is wearing World Series rings.

gotta agree ..so sick of analytics....  hits, BA, RBI's, OBP  screw anything else..and keep K ratio below  20% and if you cant hit .250 you arent gettn paid !!!

One of the things an analytics does, sometimes, is deprive athletes of the chance to compete. This is especially true of pitchers. Not so long ago they took pride in finishing what they started -- or, put another way, competing and taking responsibility. Now they are trained to go six innings and pass the baton. Under the current regime there can never again be a Bob Gibson (or a Bert Blyleven for that matter.) How can that be good for baseball?

I expect Posey's tenure to be short and brutal.

Did Farhan do a bad job in San Fran? Sure. Was it because of analytics? No.

Stop blaming the analytics. They're chasing wins, they don't care about aesthetics. Blame the league for not preventing analytics from changing how baseball is played. That's the job of the league, to take a big-picture view of the game.

18 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I expect Posey's tenure to be short and brutal.

Did Farhan do a bad job in San Fran? Sure. Was it because of analytics? No.

Stop blaming the analytics. They're chasing wins, they don't care about aesthetics. Blame the league for not preventing analytics from changing how baseball is played. That's the job of the league, to take a big-picture view of the game.

If you read my blog more carefully you'll see that I've nothing but praise for analytics. The problem isn't analytics, it's the people who overly use them & bypass the human element with its underlying conditions, intangibles & gut feelings. If you put garbage philosophy in the computer you get garbage out. Many stats have bias baked into them & you have to take them with a grain of salt. La Russa's old school doesn't fit into today's game & Zaidi has gone to the other end of the spectrum. There has to be balance & common sense. As I stated, the game has changed, baseball is a game of constant adjusting but there are things that shouldn't change like the importance of relationships, tradition, culture, chemistry,  hard work, fundamentals & the human element in navigating the decision-making.

Posey has a very brutal uphill row to hoe. LAD, SD & AZ have a large advantage over them to overcome. I expect a long process to compete with them.

I like analytics. It’s a good way to measure a lot of different things especially over a long season or career. But how many times are you gonna send Margot up to pinch hit in a clutch spot relying on analytics and odds? Maybe the fact is the guy just doesn’t have it in him. That’s the feel for the game that analytics doesn’t always get right. Correa being in the right place at the right time. Vazquez noticing the ump is calling strikes a bit more inside today and attacking that. A pitcher tipping his pitches. Somebody in the dugout saying the right motivational thing at the right time. Intangibles. The human element of the game. In a world driven by analytics, sales and marketing everything is just a product and everyone is trying to find a way to squeeze one more drop out of everything. It’s the way of the world but it doesn’t mean that it can’t be disgusting at times. 

On 12/14/2024 at 1:20 PM, dxpavelka said:

Reminds me of when I rant on here about the fact that Eddie Rosario brought intangible things to the Twins that no analytic could measure and then I get bombarded with a dozen analytic arguments.  While Eddie is wearing World Series rings.

Thank you, I’ve long felt this. WAR completely disproportionately punished Eddie compared to the reality of baseball.

Eddie was no Delmon Young.

My examination of the situation in 2019 concluded that Eddie lost 75 percent of his 3.x WAR derived from offense to his defense and ended up 0.9.

That’s the kind of thing that makes this analytics/statistics/predictive analytics major on the graduate level at Northwestern who got an A in every statistics course he ever took, conclude that the people running the tool (analytics) have no feel for the real game of baseball.

Just because you have a BMW doesn’t mean you are a good driver.

Take a bad driver and give them a tool like the BMW and they will still be a bad driver. This speaks to the Rocco Baldelli approach. To the extent that he can free himself of blind adherence to misguided analytics, he can become a good manager and I’ve seen him struggle with it. He just can’t break free. Molitor has a much better feel for the game.

I think the defective range related defensive metrics which are new, untested and unproven are responsible for insane conclusions about the defensive abilities of many players, including Carlos Correa.

The worst thing is the insistence of some teams to allow analytics majors who know 1/1000 about the diversity of tools needed to win baseball games to actually dictate to the manager what he is to do against his feel for the game.

Joe Maddon stands out, a brilliant baseball mind run out of baseball by the reckless and downright stupid approach they took with him managing his team.

The last thing is that all this reliance on poorly thought out analytics, especially on the defensive side but also the offensive analytics like exit velocity that have lead to the home run approach and screw bunting, stealing, etc have really hurt the game. 

I’ll note that the Twins have had a black hole in LF ever since Eddie and his 30+ HR and 109 RBI were run out of town. And you’re right, Eddie single handedly carried the Braves to a World Championship after he left the Twins.

The Twins organization is never going to do well on a grand scale until they let go of this beast. I think if the Phoenix ownership group takes over, they’ll fix it in a hurry. I still think the Twins real true mission could be carried out with new owners and sans Falvey and Baldelli.

9 hours ago, Greglw3 said:

Thank you, I’ve long felt this. WAR completely disproportionately punished Eddie compared to the reality of baseball.

Eddie was no Delmon Young.

My examination of the situation in 2019 concluded that Eddie lost 75 percent of his 3.x WAR derived from offense to his defense and ended up 0.9.

That’s the kind of thing that makes this analytics/statistics/predictive analytics major on the graduate level at Northwestern who got an A in every statistics course he ever took, conclude that the people running the tool (analytics) have no feel for the real game of baseball.

Just because you have a BMW doesn’t mean you are a good driver.

Take a bad driver and give them a tool like the BMW and they will still be a bad driver. This speaks to the Rocco Baldelli approach. To the extent that he can free himself of blind adherence to misguided analytics, he can become a good manager and I’ve seen him struggle with it. He just can’t break free. Molitor has a much better feel for the game.

I think the defective range related defensive metrics which are new, untested and unproven are responsible for insane conclusions about the defensive abilities of many players, including Carlos Correa.

The worst thing is the insistence of some teams to allow analytics majors who know 1/1000 about the diversity of tools needed to win baseball games to actually dictate to the manager what he is to do against his feel for the game.

Joe Maddon stands out, a brilliant baseball mind run out of baseball by the reckless and downright stupid approach they took with him managing his team.

The last thing is that all this reliance on poorly thought out analytics, especially on the defensive side but also the offensive analytics like exit velocity that have lead to the home run approach and screw bunting, stealing, etc have really hurt the game. 

I’ll note that the Twins have had a black hole in LF ever since Eddie and his 30+ HR and 109 RBI were run out of town. And you’re right, Eddie single handedly carried the Braves to a World Championship after he left the Twins.

The Twins organization is never going to do well on a grand scale until they let go of this beast. I think if the Phoenix ownership group takes over, they’ll fix it in a hurry. I still think the Twins real true mission could be carried out with new owners and sans Falvey and Baldelli.

I've been ranting about the Twins getting rid of Rosario from the day they did.  Still waiting for an analytic that measures heart.  I agree with just about everything you said except one thing:  I have no illusions that a different ownership group will fix anything.  Different, sure.  Fixed:  TBD.

On 12/19/2024 at 3:19 PM, Greglw3 said:

Thank you, I’ve long felt this. WAR completely disproportionately punished Eddie compared to the reality of baseball.

Eddie was no Delmon Young.

My examination of the situation in 2019 concluded that Eddie lost 75 percent of his 3.x WAR derived from offense to his defense and ended up 0.9.

That’s the kind of thing that makes this analytics/statistics/predictive analytics major on the graduate level at Northwestern who got an A in every statistics course he ever took, conclude that the people running the tool (analytics) have no feel for the real game of baseball.

Just because you have a BMW doesn’t mean you are a good driver.

Take a bad driver and give them a tool like the BMW and they will still be a bad driver. This speaks to the Rocco Baldelli approach. To the extent that he can free himself of blind adherence to misguided analytics, he can become a good manager and I’ve seen him struggle with it. He just can’t break free. Molitor has a much better feel for the game.

I think the defective range related defensive metrics which are new, untested and unproven are responsible for insane conclusions about the defensive abilities of many players, including Carlos Correa.

The worst thing is the insistence of some teams to allow analytics majors who know 1/1000 about the diversity of tools needed to win baseball games to actually dictate to the manager what he is to do against his feel for the game.

Joe Maddon stands out, a brilliant baseball mind run out of baseball by the reckless and downright stupid approach they took with him managing his team.

The last thing is that all this reliance on poorly thought out analytics, especially on the defensive side but also the offensive analytics like exit velocity that have lead to the home run approach and screw bunting, stealing, etc have really hurt the game. 

I’ll note that the Twins have had a black hole in LF ever since Eddie and his 30+ HR and 109 RBI were run out of town. And you’re right, Eddie single handedly carried the Braves to a World Championship after he left the Twins.

The Twins organization is never going to do well on a grand scale until they let go of this beast. I think if the Phoenix ownership group takes over, they’ll fix it in a hurry. I still think the Twins real true mission could be carried out with new owners and sans Falvey and Baldelli.

Ditto. What I didn't understand when Kepler came up was why didn't they put Kepler (who was the better fielder) in LF & Rosario (who had the better arm) in RF. Didn't they have analytics to figure that out? IMO it'd have better optics for Rosario to where he'd could stay longer with the Twins. Kepler didn't think he could justify playing CF but Seth told me once that he considered himself as a LFer.

On 12/20/2024 at 10:33 AM, Doctor Gast said:

Ditto. What I didn't understand when Kepler came up was why didn't they put Kepler (who was the better fielder) in LF & Rosario (who had the better arm) in RF. Didn't they have analytics to figure that out? IMO it'd have better optics for Rosario to where he'd could stay longer with the Twins. Kepler didn't think he could justify playing CF but Seth told me once that he considered himself as a LFer.

UHHHH...Rosario's arm was not better than Kepler's.  Putting Rosario in right field would have been a disaster.

On 12/19/2024 at 3:19 PM, Greglw3 said:

WAR completely disproportionately punished Eddie compared to the reality of baseball.

 

" I said, WAR, huh (good God, y'all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, just say it again "

On 12/17/2024 at 12:47 PM, Brock Beauchamp said:

I expect Posey's tenure to be short and brutal.

Did Farhan do a bad job in San Fran? Sure. Was it because of analytics? No.

Stop blaming the analytics. They're chasing wins, they don't care about aesthetics. Blame the league for not preventing analytics from changing how baseball is played. That's the job of the league, to take a big-picture view of the game.

How is the league going to prevent analytics from changing anything?

35 minutes ago, mrzippy said:

" I said, WAR, huh (good God, y'all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, just say it again "

That song has come to my mind many times when thinking about the baseball "statistic" (that changes wildly from one company to the next). Funny in late 2021 Bill James wrote an excellent piece, which is viewable on the Internet, called 'The problem with WAR'. When the father of SABRmetrics makes a clear, logical and thorough argument against WAR, that should tell people something.

7 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

How is the league going to prevent analytics from changing anything?

By changing the rules to prevent analytics from making the game boring. Bigger bases was a small change, moving the mound back or something of that ilk would be a bigger change.

44 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

By changing the rules to prevent analytics from making the game boring. Bigger bases was a small change, moving the mound back or something of that ilk would be a bigger change.

Pretty sure that's not going to happen.  Wanna bet?

8 minutes ago, dxpavelka said:

Pretty sure that's not going to happen.  Wanna bet?

More rule changes are coming but they could go a variety of ways, any single rule change is hard to predict.

But at some point, MLB is going to have to deal with pitcher velocity (and the resulting injuries) and lack of contact.

7 hours ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

More rule changes are coming but they could go a variety of ways, any single rule change is hard to predict.

But at some point, MLB is going to have to deal with pitcher velocity (and the resulting injuries) and lack of contact.

in your opinion