This is how you trade in Fire Sale mode

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07-31-2012, 12:16 PM
jokin

This is how you trade in Fire Sale mode

The Cubs are sitting on beacoup overpriced trading chips, but they still scored a nice mini-coup in acquiring Arodys Vizcaino and Jaye Chapman for Reed Johnson and Paul Maholm. Back in the spring, I had advocated for the Twins signing Maholm on the cheap and short-term as a reliable back-end SP option, with the possibility of moving him for a prospect at the trading deadline. Maholm has had a terrific year in a hitter-friendly park, enough so that the historically pitching-savvy Braves management opted to send their #2 prospect, 20-year-old Vizcaino, and high-MiL-K-rate, 23-year-old RP Chapman to the Cubs, along with journeyman OF Johnson.

That begs the question of what a package of Span and Maholm might have yielded-- perhaps Vizcaino and Randall Delgado? Perhaps not, but clearly the Cubs have been doing their homework in finding teams with need and improving their future with a high-ceiling A propsect, the Twins thus far? not so much.
07-31-2012, 12:24 PM
Thrylos

The people who are running the Cubs have a couple of recent World Series titles under their belts. Ryan has nada. Unfortunately he is overmatched...
07-31-2012, 12:32 PM
jorgenswest

You failed to mention that Vizcaino has had Tommy John surgery and has had a history of arm trouble.

Even so, I do wonder if the Braves valued Maholm over Liriano. I would suspect that his reliable performance and team friendly contract through next season makes him clearly a more valuable piece.
07-31-2012, 12:35 PM
Brock Beauchamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgenswest

Even so, I do wonder if the Braves valued Maholm over Liriano. I would suspect that his reliable performance and team friendly contract through next season makes him clearly a more valuable piece.

I'd probably value Maholms over Liriano, especially if I ran a team that plans to contend next year as well.
07-31-2012, 12:40 PM
jokin

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgenswest

You failed to mention that Vizcaino has had Tommy John surgery and has had a history of arm trouble.

Even so, I do wonder if the Braves valued Maholm over Liriano. I would suspect that his reliable performance and team friendly contract through next season makes him clearly a more valuable piece.

Correct on everything. TJ is no longer the career-threatening impediment it once was, still leaving a high-ceiling potential guy in Vizcaino and a better throw-in prospect in Chapman. Also, the TR oversight in the Marquis/Maholm signing debate/debacle can be definitively put to rest.
07-31-2012, 12:40 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrylos98

The people who are running the Cubs have a couple of recent World Series titles under their belts. Ryan has nada. Unfortunately he is overmatched...

Honest question: why even watch this team since you clearly despise everyone and everything that has to do with the organization?

Every single post of yours is nothing but crying for "the interim" "the manager" to get fired.
07-31-2012, 12:41 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgenswest

I do wonder if the Braves valued Maholm over Liriano. I would suspect that his reliable performance and team friendly contract through next season makes him clearly a more valuable piece.

Yeah, quite a bit more I would guess, because of the contract and his consistency.
07-31-2012, 12:46 PM
DPJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Honest question: why even watch this team since you clearly despise everyone and everything that has to do with the organization?

Note to self: According to Dave you can't question anything the Minnesota Twins do.
07-31-2012, 12:52 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPJ

Note to self: According to Dave you can't question anything the Minnesota Twins do.

Not true, I question plenty. Just rambling on and on, post after post about how the Twins need to fire everyone adds nothing to the conversation and gets really ****ing annoying as it constantly derails threads.
07-31-2012, 12:55 PM
DPJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Not true, I question plenty. Just rambling on and on, post after post about how the Twins need to fire everyone adds nothing to the conversation and gets really ****ing annoying as it constantly derails threads.

Well maybe if the current group of idiots in the front office didn't put the franchise in this position he wouldn't want to organizational firesale.
07-31-2012, 12:57 PM
Winston Smith

Question nothing, 2 plus 2 equals 5.
07-31-2012, 01:00 PM
Brock Beauchamp

There's a difference between questioning the organization and ranting about how everybody needs to go for hundreds and hundreds of posts. At some point, the complaints just become board noise that deters posters from even entering a conversation on the forum.

I'm not accusing Thrylos of doing that (yeah, he's a bit negative but also has plenty good to say about the farm/organization) but there certainly are posters on this forum who make a habit of it.
07-31-2012, 01:06 PM
Thrylos

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Honest question: why even watch this team since you clearly despise everyone and everything that has to do with the organization?

Every single post of yours is nothing but crying for "the interim" "the manager" to get fired.

If you do not like the President and the Congress, you better off being an expat? Or you are not a "good" American?

(and I think that there is a lot of good within the organization; however, unless there is a major change, the Twins will not win. That's why I question the olde school people. Ryan and Gardy started talking about how there will be no "tenures" and "scholarships" or whatever with the players. About time that Management is treated that way. It appears that they are tenured and stale... And I don't like it.)

And "despise everyone" is a big word. I don't even know most of them. Don't despise (or "hate") them. Just don't like what they have been doing to my Twins. That simple.
07-31-2012, 01:16 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketpig

There's a difference between questioning the organization and ranting about how everybody needs to go for hundreds and hundreds of posts. At some point, the complaints just become board noise that deters posters from even entering a conversation on the forum.

I'm not accusing Thrylos of doing that (yeah, he's a bit negative but also has plenty good to say about the farm/organization) but there certainly are posters on this forum who make a habit of it.

Yeah, I just prefer there to be some solution to the problem mentioned as well, also the whole "making things up" like "The Twins would never trade Willingham straight up for Bundy" stuff grinds my gears a bit to.

It's one thing to criticize moves, but to claim Ryan is incompetant is pretty ridiculous, the guy built a team that won the divison 6 times in 9 years and in his short time back at the helm of the Twins has already made some very nice moves (Willingham, Doumit)
07-31-2012, 01:28 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokin

The Cubs are sitting on beacoup overpriced trading chips, but they still scored a nice mini-coup in acquiring Arodys Vizcaino and Jaye Chapman for Reed Johnson and Paul Maholm. Back in the spring, I had advocated for the Twins signing Maholm on the cheap and short-term as a reliable back-end SP option, with the possibility of moving him for a prospect at the trading deadline. Maholm has had a terrific year in a hitter-friendly park, enough so that the historically pitching-savvy Braves management opted to send their #2 prospect, 20-year-old Vizcaino, and high-MiL-K-rate, 23-year-old RP Chapman to the Cubs, along with journeyman OF Johnson.

That begs the question of what a package of Span and Maholm might have yielded-- perhaps Vizcaino and Randall Delgado? Perhaps not, but clearly the Cubs have been doing their homework in finding teams with need and improving their future with a high-ceiling A propsect, the Twins thus far? not so much.

Not to nitpick, but did you see the garbage they traded Soto for?
07-31-2012, 03:42 PM
drjim

I find it funny that questioning why someone can be negative in every single post can be equated with never being allowed to criticize the Twins for anything.

I think the analogy with politics was spot on. Once you have an entrenched position or set of beliefs everything gets seen through that perspective and it is impossible to see anything positive or good that comes from the other side.
07-31-2012, 08:08 PM
biggentleben

So, the reason Vizzy was moved is that he's basically a high-end reliever. The Cubs may give him a shot at starting again, but I've never been sure about Vizcaino as a starter. I had him in a dynasty league and cashed in big last year with no regrets. We'll see long-term, but I just don't see a third pitch or monstrous change in his delivery that would be necessary for a future starter.