chpettit19

No, I'm not. I'm acting like he didn't demand a trade. Because he didn't. He didn't want to "GTFO." You're not "acting like" players actively wanted out, you're straight up saying it. With no proof at all. 1 player requested a trade. At the last minute after they blew up the team. Not because of culture. Not because he hated it in MN. Not because he hated Rocco. Not because he hated Correa who was already gone. But because they blew up the team and they weren't trying to win. Same with Correa. The FO told him they weren't looking to even try to contend anymore during his contract and they had a chance to trade him to Houston. He said he'd be open to that trade and that trade alone. Who knows if anyone else even asked. Didn't matter because that was the only trade he was willing to accept. But you're not going to believe that because you don't want to. Such is life. Free country and all.

Correa didn't "want" to be traded, he said he'd accept a trade. To one team and one team only. He didn't ask for a trade. The team came to him with the trade idea, not the other way around. Jax didn't want to be traded until they blew up the team. We know that for sure. So, the best argument for someone "wanting to be traded" is Griffin Jax not wanting to stick around after they blew up the team. That is not at all the picture people are trying to paint here. No, my only statement about the culture was that if Lopez knew the culture was so bad the last couple years that it was costing them games that he should've gotten together with the other veterans long before now. Otherwise, the comments you're replying to are about claims that every Twins player wanted out. I addressed that above where you also falsely claim that Correa wanted out. Jax is the only player that wanted out and that wasn't until the very end when the team was blown up.

Neither are the Angels, and yet look where Mike Trout refuses to leave. Every quote about Correa being willing to leave was about him not wanting to but being willing to go back to Houston and Houston alone because that's where his and his wife's families live. Byron Buxton continues to want to stay here. Pablo didn't say he was demanding a trade this offseason in that statement did he? Joe Ryan hasn't demanded one, or did I miss that? I already gave you Arenado refusing to go to the Astros and Rodriguez refusing to go to the freaking Los Angeles Dodgers. But sure, you have the mind of the pro athlete all figured out, clearly. The Pirates, Rockies, White Sox, and Marlins are never able to get players and have all their players demanding trades constantly. Nobody is ever happy in those places. You're believing the comments you want to believe and ignoring the ones you don't. Jax only wanted to be traded because they blew up the team. Correa would only go back to where his family lives. Joe Ryan, when asked about being traded, said "I would like to stay." Is that the comment you're basing your opinion on? Is it carrying a lot of weight when you say "Who didn't want out?...Everyone else couldn't wait to GTFO."? Byron Buxton's quote after quote about not going anywhere and refusal to waive his NTC a big part of why you think they all want(ed) out? Duran's quote about being heartbroken if he'd be traded when you really knew they all wanted out?

Yes, he took a jab at the Twins for their kitchen/facilities in comparing them to the Twins. It's not weird that MLB wouldn't want that on their site. You said "Who didn't want out?...Everyone else couldn’t wait to GTFO." That is a statement about players actively wanting out before the trade deadline. As in, they were all hoping to be traded. That is based on nothing. Nothing at all. You can keep claiming it all you want because that's how this great country of ours works, but it will continue to be you making stuff up. You're now trying to move the goalposts to "wishes he was still in Minnesota" which is an after the fact thing. And that's fine. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere. You feel that no players want to be in MN and everyone not named Varland who was traded is happy to have been traded. Cool. Believe what you will.

I mean, yes, that is how English works. A dash is how you represent a pause and change in inflection and tone in spoken word when writing. Also, I watched the interview. So, I got it both ways. But knowing how the written English language works was the primary way I got it and that shouldn't be a crazy thing.

No, not disingenuous at all. That dash before the last part is important. It's the inflection and nonverbal part of speech that helps us understand the meaning of what was said. The facilities and kitchen are what he was saying is "amazing" compared to what the Twins have.

He was bad mouthing their kitchen. That's what you're concerned about? The Twins haven't updated their kitchen? No, I didn't mention that interaction. Why would I? He didn't demand a trade after that. We know exactly when he demanded a trade because he's said when he did. If you think that's the only disagreement between a player and manager in MLB this season you are sadly mistaken. You not liking things about the Twins doesn't mean all the players hate everything about the Twins. I want every non-player gone from the top (Pohlads) to the bottom. Start all over. Clean sweep. But suggesting every player who's put a Twins jersey on this season wanted or wants out is nonsense. Yes, they're on contending teams. Buxton sure doesn't want out; he couldn't be any clearer. And Nolan Arenado used his NTC to stay on the Cardinals instead of going to the Astros. And Eduardo Rodriguez used his to stay with the Tigers instead of going to the Dodgers last year when the Tigers were 52-57 at the deadline. So, apparently that isn't such a huge thing and you're just making stuff up.

Jhoan Duran on trade rumors: "That'd be hard. I got a couple years here, and I feel like here is my family, so if that happens, that's maybe breaking my heart a little bit." Not exactly a guy begging to get out of town. You're just making stuff up. Correa agreed to be traded to 1 team after the Twins told him they were blowing it up and Jax asked to be traded after the Twins had already blown it up. Nobody else asked out.

And was so "checked out" last year he came back and played through the pain to try to get the team into the playoffs and put up a .960 OPS in 50 PAs the last 2 weeks of the season despite still suffering from the plantar fasciitis because he didn't care at all and was checked out. Correa said from the day he got here that this was Buxton's team and he wasn't trying to step on toes. Maybe he failed at that attempt and stepped on toes anyways. It's weird that Buxton did everything he could to convince that toe stepper to come back and sign a long-term deal here, but who knows. If Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Jeffers, and Buxton had to wait until now to be leaders and change the culture after sitting through what Lopez says was bad culture for years and having watched last year spiral out of control and then watching this team never get going so much that it had to be blown up I find it hard to believe they're really leaders. Correa and Rocco are such strong leaders that the 5 of them plus Duran and Jax couldn't stop them from destroying 2 straight seasons but they're going to fix it all now? Pablo just now figured out that they should do something to only lose 2 games in a row instead of 5?

It all depends on how they determine the cap and floor. If you require 48% of league wide revenue (NFL percentage) to go back to the players, do you think that would be more or less revenue going to the players? I don't know, it'd depend on how much the large market teams are putting in now and whether that number would be raising or lowering their percentage. If the MLBPA agreed to the reported previous proposals from ownership that were just set numbers not based on anything, it'd be a massive, massive win for the owners. But there's a chance the players could actually increase their cut if they can actually get the owners to open their books and agree to a deal that's based on a percentage of revenue. I don't know how likely that is, but it's not just a guaranteed win for ownership to have a cap. It depends on how the system is set up. And it depends on what percentage of revenue teams are actually spending now. Which we'll never know.

Crochet got a 6-year, 170 mil deal after that trade. Joe Ryan's track record is all half season successes. He doesn't have any previous year where he's made it through a full season with dominant success. This will be his first if he's able to. And Ryan is 3 years older. I love Ryan. I'll be sad to see him go. But he's not worth more than Crochet in trade.

Garret Crochet got 2 top 100 prospects plus 2 other pieces. That is what the Twins can get for Joe Ryan.

How many more fans over the next 2 seasons do you believe the Twins would draw with Joe Ryan making starts as opposed to Joe Ryan not making starts? Let's do the math. Joe Ryan is going to make in the neighborhood of $18 million the next 2 years. Do the math on how he's going to make the Twins more than $18 million in revenue in 2 years.

There are a lot of ways they could look at Ryan and the team. I was just trying to explain that the way that poster used "value" isn't the same as actual cash value like the poster they'd responded to was talking about in the investors getting their money back. As for the investors and their view on roster decisions, I'll be surprised and impressed if the Pohlads (Joe especially) are willing to give them a real voice in decisions. Most MLB teams have minority owners. They aren't making the decisions on how the team is run. Hopefully they can be a bit of a guiding force, but there's a reason Derek Jeter isn't a minority owner of the Marlins anymore. The big dogs at the table eat first. It'll be interesting to see how this all progresses.

The "$25M in value" you refer to is not "cash in my pocket" value. That's what the investors likely care about. Joe Ryan is worth $25M in on field value. Your "prudent investor" would only care about that value if they care about winning baseball games and not getting their investment back. You're assuming these new minority investors care about on field performance and didn't invest in a business. As the other poster was saying, trading Ryan to save his arb raises (likely about $18 million over the next 2 years) and going with Abel (for example) on a league minimum deal in his spot instead saves the team over $16 million in salary. They don't care about the WAR/Dollar value, they care about the actual dollar value.

I did get an email from a season ticket rep on Wednesday. I was polite to them (told them I understood they were just doing their job and it was probably not an easy job to do these days) while informing them they really did need to just take me off their list (they'd been told before) because I really wasn't going to give the Pohlad family another dime of my money and bringing in minority investors didn't change that. I do not envy those people. I'd be looking for a new team to break into the baseball biz with if I were any Twin employee at this point. I'm sure they get many people who are far more aggressive with their responses than I was.

Yeah, I get it on Lewis and Wallner. But I'll take my chances on them. I'm not trying to build a team around Lewis, I'm just comparing him to a singular 3B in baseball. Caleb Durbin isn't some star. He has no real upside. For just this year? Fine, just take the glove only guy and be happy. But Milwaukee isn't sitting around thinking they have their long-term answer at 3B in Durbin. And I know people don't like to hear it, but homers win in the playoffs. They simply do. And Wallner hits them. We'll see if Milwaukee can advance this year. They haven't made any noise at all in the playoffs for a while. In large part because they can't slug with their opponents. I'm not interested in regular season wins. I want playoff wins. Wallner helps there. You can't build a team of Wallners, but a Wallner at DH is just fine. I wasn't defending Falvey in the sense that I think he should keep his job. I do think he got screwed when they trimmed payroll after 2023. I don't think he knew that was going to happen and simply looking at the 2024 payroll and saying they spent more than other central teams misses a lot of context. Cutting payroll after signing Correa and Lopez is brutal to team building. But overall, no, Falvey isn't good enough and needs to go. But won't. I'd be quite shocked to see them fire the guy they just put in charge of their entire organization.

Oh, just the Twins? Yes, it's what many of us complain about and you tell us the Twins know what they're doing and them ignoring an entire team building avenue is smart and going with the incredibly poor performing veterans is better because at least they know what they're going to get and MLB isn't the minor leagues. Yes, you're right. The rest of the major league happily cuts underperforming vets to call up rookies. But I'm sure the Twins have it all figured out. All these loses piling up and them having to do another rebuild certainly wouldn't suggest you and them are wrong.

I didn't/don't know your parameters for your question so I gave a wide ranging answer. Buxton is an easy answer. He's by far the best player on either roster. It's not even close. If you're just talking about right now then there's not even a discussion about Chourio over him, whether Chourio was healthy or not. And you know I like Chourio. Buxton is clearly better than Chourio. If you're talking about future years it can change the conversation. Setting those parameters would then change the conversations about Keaschall and Lewis as well. Keaschall has more upside, in my opinion, than Turang. And it isn't even close between Lewis and Durbin. You can replace Durbin's glove with any number of guys. That's all he is. A great glove at 3B. He can't touch Lewis' ceiling with the bat. But if you're just talking now, Lewis is struggling so, sure, just take your great glove and average bat and go. I picked Wallner at DH over Yelich. Yelich doesn't play the field anymore. He's started 13 games in the OF this year, 98 at DH. He's a DH. That's why I put Wallner there, so his defense doesn't matter, because I knew that'd be your response. But that's a moving forward decision as well. These all come down to now or later. Are you talking trying to win a title in 2025? Then it's Buxton without a question. Are you talking about trying to build a team for sustained success? Then I'm taking Keaschall, Lewis, and Wallner. As for Falvey's thoughts, I think his thoughts on drafting/developing have changed and he's gone more athletic, but it's going to take some time see those results (and I simply don't trust their ability to develop hitters). I think his MLB team building plans changed after the payroll rug got pulled from under him after 2023 (it's not just about payroll dollars but changes to the payroll after dollars are already dedicated). And I think his MLB team building plans changed again after 2024 when he was put in charge of the business side as one of many cost saving strategies and he was told that his #1 job is to save money, and he's now in a massive gear shifting phase where he has to switch to trying to win on a $110 million budget (which I think we're in relative agreement on). But I agree the Twins don't play a fun brand of baseball to watch. And I wish the entire non-player part of the organization got flushed and reset.

I realize now that through text my post could've come across as more serious or aggressive. I was just playing off the structure of your other post and giving you the info on those trades so I hope you didn't take it as anything more than that and I apologize if it came across more aggressively than intended.

I mean, this is just wildly incorrect. Veteran players are DFA'd all the time because they aren’t good enough. Some of them are replaced by rookies. This isn't even worth debating.

You are mistaken. Burnes was an offseason trade and Hader had another season of control left beyond the one he was traded in.

Not sure you really want to go with the all caps on the none there. I think there's a couple people who'd argue that Rooker fella should've been given a few more looks over some veterans before they shipped him out because he turned out alright. Luis Arraez, I heard, could hit a little bit. Matt Wallner sure has some impressive numbers (yes, I know he strikes out, deal with it). Ryan Jeffers sure does alright for a catcher. But, sure, generally speaking, they've been pretty awful at both developing offense and bringing in veterans. It's why they don't win.

Nobody said it was little league. Wanting to sign a 38-year-old catcher (the suggestion that started this) during a lost season is bad roster management. The idea that spring training is the only time players should be or should want to be given opportunities to earn future playing time is ridiculous and wrong. No major league team runs that way. None. Not the Dodgers, not the Rockies, nobody. Development happens at the major league level. Your constant insistence that it doesn't is wrong. No players show up as finished products. No team knows exactly what they're getting in any player when they promote them. Calling up players to give them experience and gain knowledge of what you have in them is what 100% of major league teams do.

Camargo is "gone" because he had Tommy John surgery. You keep defending the Twins strategy of going with "known veterans" despite the Twins continuing to lose. I find that interesting. But next time you want to claim a player "is gone because he was determined to be worse than (another player)" at least make sure that's actually why that player isn't playing and they aren't injured.