chpettit19

I don't think he makes it on the first ballot, but Joe Mauer should make the Hall of Fame. A Hall of Famer who plays his entire career with your team is always worth it. I get that his career got a little disappointing towards the end, and after he moved from behind the plate, but it's crazy to me that anyone looks at a Hall of Famer and thinks "yeah, what a terrible job this team did by keeping that guy around." Joe Mauer deserved his number being retired, and deserved his induction into the Twins Hall of Fame yesterday. It's absurd, to me, that we're still questioning his extension. Bi-lateral leg weakness will forever be joke worthy, but Joe Mauer is an all-time great Twin, and he was worth every penny (in the context of the pro-sports world).

When you think of a career .306 hitter who only hit below .280 three times, and had an OPS+ under 100 once, in a 15 year career, 10 years of which he was a catcher, what you think of is "left fielders waiting to catch his predictable fly balls and line drives?" Yikes.

Totally fair about the consistency of the results. I guess my point/question is how flawed can your roster, and in tandem process, be if you win the WS, reach the ALCS, reach the ALDS? I don't think a roster that wins the WS could be so severely flawed that it's not worth reassessing the FO. ALCS would make me think, but not quite as hard. ALDS would make me pause, but probably still be on the "fire them" bandwagon. I'm just saying that I believe playoff success should make us rethink things even after the last couple regular seasons depending on what the playoff success is. I just don't think your roster can be as flawed as we may view this one if they win the world series.

Well I was wrong about AAA. He's immediately added to the active roster taking Buxton's spot. Yikes.

Big money comes with big risk for sure. But Donaldson was 34 when he joined the Twins. Correa's guaranteed portion of his deal only runs til he turns 34. Correa shouldn't be on the downside of his career yet. Seems pretty reasonable to expect a bounce back after a regular offseason. But there's always risk.

Most of the rumors I've heard have Keuchel starting Sunday and pushing Lopez back a day.

1A. Correa 1B. Buxton 1C. Lewis- To make up for 1A and 1B just a little None of the rest matter if 1A and 1B don't perform better. I mean if the rest of the roster is fully healthy, and performs to their ceilings starting September 1 through the end of their playoff run, they could make up for 1A and 1B being bad. But that's not very likely. Your stars have to be stars as they're the ones you count on to pick up the slack, not provide slack that needs to be picked up by non-stars.

I will say that there's definitely people within the industry that other orgs have their eyes on, and who people believe could run a team. How easy is it to get that right, though? There's new head baseball guys hired all the time who do great. Look at the Orioles for example. Or the Reds. Both made changes at the top in recent years and are on the rise. But plenty of other teams have made changes and seen little to no improvement, or gotten worse. It's not quite as easy as saying "15 other teams would have hired them by now." But, it's also not as easy as "just fire them and hire someone better." The reason I've been slow with jumping on the "fire the FO" bandwagon is because I don't love or hate this FO. I think they're OK. I'm just not a fan of their brand of baseball, or their speed at which they make adjustments. They're kind of like Kirk Cousins to me. Do I think they're good enough to get us to the playoffs, have some nice stretches, and keep us from being a dumpster fire? Yes. Do I think they're good enough to win us championships, or be true, consistent contenders for championships? No. And I'm ready to make an upside play. Even if I know if may lead to Christian Ponder taking over. I want to take a shot at finding a Mahomes.

He was speaking about a new regime coming and changing culture, etc. taking years. Suggesting that making a regime change wasn't going to lead to immediate result changes that many of us are calling for. He wasn't shifting the goalposts, he was talking about lining up a new kicker. I don't disagree that making the playoffs is entirely about them being in the central. Don't disagree that this is a flawed roster. Is winning playoff games not the goal you're hoping to achieve, though? If they get to the ALCS does it make you rethink anything? WS? ALDS? Is there any amount of success this team can have in the postseason that would make you rethink your stance on their employment with the Twins continuing? There's definitely some success that would make me rethink things. Their "process" this year, as you seem to be acknowledging, is to win with great SP first and foremost. If they get in and win with great SP is that really a "faulty" process? My understanding from most fans, and my own stance, is that playoff success is our goalpost. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you and all you care about is changing the process even if the process leads to great postseason success this year. But if playoff success doesn't negate the regular seasons the last 2+ years I don't know what could. Maybe that's your point. In which case you just have different goalposts than most the rest of us from what I can tell.

Faster Kyle Garlick. Just what the Dr ordered. I assume he's headed to St Paul as "depth." I generally don't pay much mind to these pretty insignificant moves, but it doesn't feel right to sit out the deadline and then bring in Kyle Garlick with speed. I generally believe the baseball side of the FO should pay pretty little attention to the desires of the fans (beyond fans wanting a winning team) and leave that up to the owners and business side, but it feels like a bit of a slap in the face to your fan base to make this move right now. At the end of the day it's a "meh" move that we really shouldn't care much about, but 3 days post deadline, in a heated division race where you're floundering left and right it has a little sting to it. Not a fan of this.

I'm ready to move on, but the nervous side of me is certainly worried that things get even worse. I think they have a solid core of young guys on the cusp, though, so my hope is that they could be replaced with someone who doesn't have to do a whole bunch early on, but can make some tweaks to overall strategy, and supplement the hopeful "new core" to raise the ceiling. I don't get the feeling the Pohlads are going to make any changes, though. I think they have been assured they'll be here to start next season at a minimum.

Would you put him at the bottom of the 30 current people running MLB teams? I'd fire him (assuming they're not going to make any real noise in the playoffs), but I think he's pretty squarely in the middle of the pack of current MLB GMs/POBOs. It's not hard to look around the league and see a whole lot of other teams I'm much happier not being a fan of. Again, I'd fire him, but I'd certainly be ready for the possibility of far worse results. This team, and being .500, isn't fun. But it's way better than being Oakland, Colorado, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh, or Miami. And basically the same as being a fan of Kansas City, Arizona, other Chicago, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Washington, New York, other New York, Philadelphia, Seattle, Cleveland, Toronto, and Baltimore. That's 7 teams I see as being clearly worse. And 13 I see as being awfully similar (some cuz of recent rings, others cuz they're up and coming, others cuz they're basically the same middle of the road type teams). That leaves 9 I think are clearly better. Is Falvey one of the 30 best people in the world at running a ball club? I don't know. But I know there's currently a number who are worse than him running other teams.

I don't see how that's "shifting the goalposts on results." I'm on the "fire the FO" side of the argument, but FDG isn't wrong that there's a long ways below the Twins, and their FO, and the bottom of the league. I agree that I'd take the risk for getting much worse at the shot of getting much better, but this FO is competent, just not great. Your suggestion that them "winning a WC series on the back of great SP shouldn't negate how uninspiring the product has been for the last 2+ years" is far closer to "shifting the goalposts on results" than FDG pointing out that things could get a lot worse around here with a new FO. I'm not saying them winning the WC series alone should negate anything, but why would we not give them credit for acquiring "great SP" that can win a playoff series against a team I'm quite sure you'd describe as better than the Twins? I haven't particularly enjoyed watching this team for a couple years now, but if they start winning playoff series I'll absolutely give them credit for it, and reassess my stance. Is your demand of them not to win playoff series? Does it not count if they don't win the way you want, but instead win "on the back of great SP?"

I'm not really worried about Correa moving forward. I think he bounces back just fine next year. But he's certainly been awful this year. Buxton I have real fears about ever being an outfielder again, and that's huge. But I won't play the hindsight game with that deal. I had no problem with him getting that deal, and until I'm given hard proof that they should've known his knees were going to completely fall apart I'm not going to hold that against them. But if those deals are both bad for 5 more years it's really, really bad for this organization. $45+ million on the bench for 5 years is not a sustainable plan. But 2 RH bats isn't really having "RH bats covered." We shouldn't be RH bat barren, but they're not totally covered even with those 2 at their peaks. They had 2 horrid trades last year. No doubt about that. I didn't mind the Mahle one at all. I didn't expect Mahle to need TJ surgery or Steer to be nearly this good. CES still has a lot to prove before I'm going to cry over him, but he's got a real chance to be a solid bat. Thought it was a reasonable trade for 1.5 years of Mahle. They traded from an area of perceived depth (RH corner IF bats with questionable gloves) for an area of need (the rotation for more than just the end of last year). You have to give value to get value. Didn't work out. I also didn't mind the Lopez deal, and anybody who claims they had a problem with Cano being traded, or saw this year coming from him, is flat out lying, so I thought Povich was a reasonable price for 2.5 years of Lopez. I didn't expect Lopez to be as good as he was in the first half, but didn't expect him to completely fall apart with the stuff he throws. Didn't work out. Those are 2 huge mistakes that absolutely should be held against the FO. Even if part of it is bad luck with the TJ surgery for Mahle, you can't have 2 misses that are that big in the same year. But, overall, I actually think they do an OK job with their roster building. Doesn't mean I wouldn't fire them for other reasons, but they are pretty neutral on their hits and misses. Not surprising they produce these roughly .500 teams (they were a .500 team last year until they were playing you, me, and Jake Cave in September). The bigger the hit or miss the more emotional the reaction. Have 2 big misses, and then your team face plants the next year? Going to have a lot of emotional reactions out of fans. But they've had good trades. Odo, Maeda, Gray, Ryan, Duran. Those are good trades. But the team overall has struggled so we forget about them and focus on the misses. Human nature. I've been slow on giving up on them because there's a very real chance you fire them and get a much worse FO in their place. They're middle of the ground. There's worse out there. But their inability to adjust in season (why is Gallo still here?!), and the fact that I'm someone who believes in taking the educated risk on higher upside, leads me to want to move on. It's not at all, for me, that they're just piling up blunder after blunder. I don't agree with that. It's that they're average, and I want to take a shot at better than average. I'd much rather miss on a Walker Jenkins upside play than make the "safe" college bat play with lesser upside. I don't think these guys can get this team to a dominant spot. And I want to see if someone else can.

I agree with @jishfish. Correa is still playing elite defense at short according to my eyes, and he can/will move to 3B when he's no longer the best defender they have at SS. To me the question is if, as this article seems to suggest, he's actually breaking down, or if this is just a down year and he bounces back. I'm of the belief he bounces back. Lots of good numbers and charts shared here that show almost all these bigtime SS signings the last couple years had a terrible first year, then bounced back. There's something to these guys being human. Correa had a very abnormal offseason, and then, I'd guess, came in looking to have his best season ever to give the finger to the Mets and Giants and some fans. If I'm wrong, and this is actually a physical decline at the age of 28 the Twins are definitely in trouble. But if I'm right, and he bounces back, he's not "clogging that spot." Borderline HOFers aren't "clogging spots." Nolan Arenado isn't "clogging" 3B in St Louis and forcing them to move their elite young 3B (Jordan Walker). That's not a problem. That's a blessing. And if Correa loses his mobility in 2 or 3 years you move him to 3B where his arm allows him to still be an elite fielder until the end of his 6 guaranteed years, I'd bet. Maybe you believe this is the start of his decline. If it is then I agree this is a terrible situation for the Twins. I just don't think it is.

Lots of talk of "highest payrolls" or "TR didn't get this big of payrolls" like the Twins are a top spending team now. Yes, the overall total of the payrolls are higher, but they're still in the 15-20 range in terms of league rankings on spending. I'm not saying this as an excuse, or to suggest it's crazy to think they should be fired. My "fire/don't fire" decision making question was how quickly/effectively they made in season adjustments to "the plan," and they've completely failed at that in my opinion (Gallo alone is enough to say they've failed at it). I'm just bringing this up because them spending 150+ mil is a team record, but the rest of the league is setting team records, too. Their overall spending power hasn't dramatically changed in the context of the league overall.

I mean Royce Lewis has played 26 games this year. Lee just got to AAA (admittedly he could've been promoted earlier). And neither is anywhere near a sure fire major league shortstop. I'm all for young, controllable, top end talent, but Carlos Correa is on a borderline HOF career path. Correa and Gallo are not comparable signings.

Gallo's roster spot should 100% be available for any competent major leaguer to take. And they're going to really want one of those RH corner OFers if they make the playoffs.

What's weird is speaking in certainty like you did. You didn't say "it's all going to come down to how they play against Cleveland, what will they do?" You said "once they play go head to head with Cleveland its all over. Twins can't beat the Guardians when it matters, and like last September, that will be our undoing." And last September they had half their roster on the IL, I hope that isn't the case this year.

Helman plays all over. 3 games each at 2B and 3B this year in St Paul. 1 in LF. 5 at SS. Last year was mostly 2B and CF. He's a true super utility guy for the Saints. Martin has been splitting his time between LF, CF, and 2B this year. 15 games at 2B, 3 each in CF and LF this year.

Agreed. Very weird that it's not spelled out pretty clearly (as far as lawyer talk goes at least) somewhere in there. Guess we'll just have to wait for Lee to win the ROY aware and find out then! 😀

Illegal substance to add to the ball for pitchers?! Although I've heard there's no crying in baseball because there's no crying in baseball.

I'm choosing to not think about such a possibility. Can only handle so much before I cry. And I hear there's no crying in baseball.

But Correa is the one asking for specific data. He knows what numbers he wants. Popkins doesn't make up the numbers. Correa has built a routine and the numbers he wants over years playing with an even more analytically driven team than the Twins. He tells the coaches what numbers he wants, they don't tell him what numbers he should look at. Almost the entire team is performing to recent career norms. They're simply not very good career norms. Gallo, Farmer, Solano, Kepler (is Popkins now a genius since Kepler is performing great recently?), Castro, Larnach, MAT all within normal range of recent numbers. Jeffers having career year. Julien, Kirilloff, Wallner, Lewis all performing very well as rookies. Correa, Buxton, and Vazquez only 3 guys really having bad years. Just happen to be the 2 most important players are in that group. 3 out of 15 guys sure doesn't scream "coaching is killing this team!" to me. Was apparently washed with the Giants and Mets orgs this year, too, I guess. And the Yankees for multiple years prior. Dang, crazy that the Padres are struggling so much with such a brilliant hitting coach. Turned back the clock on Sanchez while also turning Kim into a star. But destroyed Machado and Bogaerts. We've veered off path a little for the thread topic, though. I don't think Correa breaks out this year, but I don't think coaching has doomed him, nor do I think he's declined overall for his career. I expect him back much closer to a 130 OPS+ next year. With the same coaches or not. But reasonable minds can disagree.

Agreed we shouldn't derail the thread. I'll just say I really hope you aren't right.