DocBauer

Love your belief in Steer as I share it as well. I just don't know at this time if Steer is going to ever have a full time spot...unless he can surprise us at SS...due to being potentially locked by Polanco and Miranda. But that's OK! I think he is going to be GOOD and valuable and flexible and a tremendous utility type. He might appear in 2022 but I'm looking more at 2023. I am also very excited for Julian on a similar timetable. It may sound silly to some to be excited about utility players...barring injury or trade...but I fully embrace a roster that is deep and flexible. But I have a good feeling that BOTH of these guys have a chance to be integral parts of the Twins roster very soon as great "bench" pieces who play all over and contribute. For those few who might not be paying full attention, position player wise, the Twins are trying to build a roster the way the Dogers and Rays have done, and are looking at the best EVERYDAY options as well as versatility and depth. And I have a really good feeling about both these guys.

If your monthly numbers are correct, then my memory is shot, lol. I guess I should have been more clear that, as best I can recall, the power was there but the hitting was inconsistent. I may be right, or may be mis-remembering. And I guess that was where I was coming from. I hope I'm right that the bat isn't proven yet to other teams enough to select and stash him.

Agreed it's hard to pat the owners on the back for doing something they should have done a long time ago. But I will at least give credit for finally getting this done. The ability to make meals shouldn't be dismissed. There certainly are hotels who gave kitchenettes, so I do think those are viable options. Agree with Steve71 that a smart and progressive owner should be doing all they can to go the extra mile for their investment in the lifeblood of their franchise.

They kept the 6 they needed to keep and I'm glad they didn't play games with Enlow' s status. Someone would have grabbed him and stashed him. I would have liked to keep Schulfer, Contreras and Gore. Schulfer has the velocity to be interesting but his numbers don't exactly jump out at this point. He might be selected, and from there, who knows. But it's pretty hard to add 7-8-9 guys to the 40 man at this point for almost anyone. I hope be doesn't get selected, or is returned. Contreras and Gore are interesting, but not especially young. And Gore is still new to the mound. I hope both stay with the Twins, but again, you only have so many spots available. Love the improvement by Palacios and I have some hope for him. But despite solid overall numbers, his bat was inconsistent. Not sure anyone takes a gamble on him right now. I just don't think Severino is ready for a big move yet. Doesn't mean someone not expected to contend couldn't stash either one of these guys, but they also have their own players and own rosters to protect and run through. As far as Cave goes, I'll repeat I was 50-50 if the Twins would keep him. He's an experienced and inexpensive 4th OF with 2 quality seasons before a bad 2020. (Not the only one who did). He hurt his back very early in 2021 and basically had a lost year. He has an option and be can also be cut with no $ repercussion. He's kept for depth. If someone gets claimed, sticks, and does well elsewhere it would be easy to claim the Twins blew it. But even at that, if Cave had been cut, which other prospect do you keep in his place? How could we be certain that THAT ONE was the RIGHT ONE to protect? All I'm saying is, you protect the best 40 you can with the knowledge, belief, and information you have. Some of it is guesswork, unfortunately. I don't know that I would have protected him. But based on his first 2 seasons and healthy again, yeah, I can see why they kept him for depth.

Insurance and depth on the cheap.

At this point, I'm not upset, and have been 50/50 that the Twins would keep him. His defense is pretty decent and definitely improved in CF. We have to remember he was a solid hitter his first 2 seasons, OPS of .786 and .805. Personally I write off his 2020, as I have for a lot of guys who had a bad year then, and not just for the Twins. He also hurt his back very early in 2021, and I believe he even tried to play a couple of games before his season was basically over. With an option remaining, however, and a need to prove himself again, I don't think he's a lock to make the opening roster at all.

The OP is 100% correct by Cody. The DH spot doesn't have to be ONE GUY. It never has to have been unless you have a special player to fill that spot. Despite the offense needing some greater consistency, the power and the hitting seems to be there. Despite some poor seasons and injuries that mucked things up, and the loss of Cruz the last couple of months, the overall run production was good. I know potential trades could change the complexion of things, but reflect on what is on hand for the time being. Arraez needs to play daily as a 2B/3B/LF/DH option to set the table. Donaldson still needs a few half days off. Sano needs to play at 1B and DH. AK will play 1B and OF. Garver needs to be in the lineup as much as possible. That means some DH time, MAYBE some 1B time as well. Larnach is free to grab the LF job, spending some time in RF as well, if and when he grabs a permanent job. And then there is Miranda, the hottest prospect we've had in years. He needs to play! And while I wouldn't stick him at DH, he allows others to take a day there. DH is not an issue. Too many good bats/players to fill the daily 1-9 is a GOOD problem to have.

I feel sorry for Hamilton. The kid has been through so much. Not just his horrific injury, but just last season he was claimed and waived 2 or 3 times before being a Twin for 2021. For his sake, and I just don't see how we can spend the 40 man spot to protect him, I hope he goes unclaimed just so he can continue with ONE TEAM to keep progressing and get a shot.

Yes, but he has to be protected initially on the 40 man roster before being placed on the 60 day IL to create another roster opening, right? And if I'm right, when can he be transferred to the 60 day to allow for an open spot?

To me the first 6 are givens: Lewis, Miranda, Winder, Sands, Enlow and Vallimont. I don't WANT to protect Enlow as he's going to be out until June/July and hopefully get some quality IP at the end of the year. But someone WILL pick him, stash him, rehab him, and get him ready for 2023. I don't recall Valimont's control ever being as bad previously. He's probably destined for the pen, IMO, as a high velocity, K arm that we just can't afford to be selected and stashed on a bad team's roster for a year. I really want to keep Gore and I think he pitches for the Twins at some point in 2022. But can we afford the roster spot to protect him? Schulfer has been solid, but not great, thus far in his Twins career. But I also didn't realize he had that much velocity. I'd really hate to take the chance someone is going to stash him in their pen like what happened to Wells last year. Lastly, I'm really glad they re-signed Palacios. But I don't see room to keep him. Despite a good 2021 and the ability to suddenly hit, and hit with power, at an upper level, it was his 3rd go around at AA. Further, if you break down his months, his BA and other peripherals were inconsistent month to month. That works in the Twins favor. I just don't see him being selected, or at least not kept, by another team. There's no room to keep anyone else. And it's going to be hard to keep everyone I've already listed. But a dark horse, or at least someone I'm really, really hoping doesn't get picked? That would be Contreras. I don't think he will be picked, much less kept. But I think he has a chance to play in 2022 in some capacity. I don't think the hit tool is ready yet, but the defense is there and he's got some developing power.

I appreciate your opinion as well as your frustration. But I'm going to have to disagree with your sentiment. While 2021 was a classic and utter failure, the plan in place was not a bad one. I mean, Colome is gone and should be gone. But he was quite good/effective from about early May on. (Too little too late I know). Happ just shouldn't have been that bad based on history, his 2020, and his first few starts last year. I don't know how anyone could have predicted Simmons bat to just suddenly turn to wet tissue paper when he had an OPS of like .750 or higher 4 if the previous 5 seasons. The Maeda and Odorizzi trades were excellent. The Cruz signing was outstanding. A healthy Donaldson earned his deal in 2021, and hopefully will in 2022 as well. In previous seasons, the FO found a number of bargains for the pen that met or exceeded any projections. Whether you actually agree with some of the players they have traded away, the returns on those trades look to have been solid with many of the returnees having reached MLB or are very close. System wise, they have completely revamped their entire approach and with good reports and what appear to be good results. While 2020 remains an outlier at this point due to it's unusual subtext, the drafts this FO has been responsible for appear to be at least solid if not good. We've already seen several coaches poached by other organizations from the Twins after being hired by, you guessed it, this current FO. Please understand, I'm speaking from MY perspective on how I see this FO to this point. I don't believe we can judge it by a season in which virtually EVERYTHING that could go wrong did go wrong. Nor can we, IMO, use any singular move or non-move judged as a "mistake" and use that to categorically dismiss the FO as incompetent. Now, a large number of mistakes can and will certainly add up. But absolutely no FO anywhere always makes the right moves or non-moves. You always hope they do the right thing much more often than they do the wrong thing. I'm disappointed and a little po'd by this announcement...with the previous caveat that we don't know everything and doubtfully ever will...because if there was ever a time to stretch your self imposed restrictions for length of a deal, this would have been the guy to do it for. The FO has an opportunity to make a lot of moves this offseason and here's hoping they have a good plan and enact it well. If they do, the window of opportunity may remain open and a lot of good faith lost will return. But despite some questions and frustrations, when I examine the entire content of what the leadership has done to this point, I'm still on board at this point.

I have little doubt there's more to this than the tired old mantra of "the Twins are cheap", but I'm sure we'll never know all the details/facts. It may be Berrios, after being traded, simply decided the $ was fair and he wanted the security for his family. Something may have changed within his family. So I'm not going to needlessly speculate or blame the Twins for anything at this point. To continue, the Twins are paying Donaldson more than $20M per. They lost out on but offered both Darvish and Wheeler more than $20M. So I don't think it's the money that is/was the overriding factor here. I think there's at least a good chance it was the length of the deal. And I can be disappointed without being angry. 6+ years is a very, very long time to guarantee a pitcher $20M+ per season. So I get it. That being said, Berrios is the best arm produced by the Twins in years. He's actually really good and has upside remaining. He's a tireless worker who is a bulldog competitor. And at only 27yo, he's the kind of arm young enough to deserve an extension that long. I don't think the Twins look very good here.

I'm interested in all 3 of the A's pitchers if the price is right. And I'm OK making a move for someone on a 1yr deal. But a "right price" is not a top 10 prospect unless the guy I'm getting back pushes me to the top. And that's not happening here. And I seriously doubt Oakland wants a 1 for 1 deal. They are going to want a 2 or 3 for 1 deal to deepen their system and provide more opportunities to strike it rich. Staying away from exact names as I don't know the A's system all that well, but I'd be OK with 2 or 3 from about the 12-15 spots in the Twins system on down. There's a lot of good ballplayers there. I could see the rehabbing Enlow as someone Beane might have as a primary target.

2I think Nick's OP is spot on that the FO hasn't exactly blown their various moves. In fact, this OP shows they have indeed made some real quality moves. By no means have they all worked out, especially last year to be sure, but they haven't "blown" all their moves. Really enjoying the opinions of lastonepicked and chpettit19. And I agree with just about every point each has made. And I will state that in MY opinion, a re-tool vs a re-build, is absolutely about the players acquired via trade last year, but ALSO includes spending $ available to add to the pitching staff. The question remains as to HOW they add to that staff. And this comes back to the OP and FO history. My blueprint was a re-sign of Pineda which is pretty much a status-quo and not really looking outside of the organization. Despite addressing the front 2 spots in the rotation via FA, I've maintained my belief that one of those spots is at least 50/50 to be occupied by a trade option. And this goes back to the OP and the trades for Maeda and Odorizzi. Repeating myself again, can they pull a rabbit out of the hat a 3rd time? By that I mean it cost them a low A SS with some potential and a high quality BP arm that had SP potential. With a deep system and a variety of teams looking to re-build and shed payroll, can they yet again find a quality SP via trade without breaking up the ML roster core? Some argue, rightfully so, that said core hasn't produced a true playoff run yet. I can't disagree. But I'd argue that core provided a pair of winning seasons and a SHOT in the playoffs. So do we deplete the OF or C position to add to the rotation? To be more direct, who replaces Kepler's defense and inconsistent but solid offense if traded? And how much better are we losing Garver or Jeffers if they are included in a deal, which many opinions state we should do, trading from depth. Trading from depth is what you SHOULD do. But Larnach, Celestino, Wallner, Martin, Rotvedt and even Jeffers may be a half season to a full season away from being ready to be every day contributors. And we have ARMS that are pushing at AAA and AA to be ready at some point in 2022. I am NOT opposed to some smart trades. And the FO has made a couple smart ones. But shouldn't they just be smart with a couple FA additions to re-tool for 2022 and build on what they have coming up?

Agreed. His AA numbers look good overall. But there was a lot of up and down BA wise, though his production was solid. He's still got a lot to prove with the bat. You can't build a resume just hitting mistakes. But he's young enough still to improve. And I'm glad to have him on board if the glove is still there.

Rodriguez was in my "second tier" as a signing for the #1 spot to lead the 2022 rotation. This tells me one of two things: 1] The FO is willing to re-visit the FA market for a 3rd time, having lost out on Darvish and Wheeler, and commit to Stoman or maybe Gausman for a 4-5yr deal at $20M plus for someone to lead the staff and then add via FA or trade to find someone who is just SOLID to fill the #2 spot, hopefully with some upside. Budget still works. 2] They expect to trade milb talent and maybe a player or two off the ML roster to bring in an arm for the potential #1 spot and still sign one of many interesting guys for the #2 spot. Budget still works. I'm still assuming the #3 spot is Pineda or similar. Both plans work. Losing out on Rodriguez doesn't blow up 2022 for the Twins, even though he could have been a nice signing. Smart move by the Tigers. There is still a LOT of opportunity for the Twins, however.

Appreciate the hard work done here, but as stated, the incentives here are realistic based on what is in place. I honestly don't recall if it was ever reported what the initial guaranteed AAV. But it was in the double digit category for sure. The issue was the incentives, obviously not reported, that was the issue. They either weren't enough, OR, were too hard to achieve. That's lead to speculation that the best option is to offer $15-17M AAV and have GP or PA or AB be the benchmark for incentives. As far as I know, incentives/bonuses can also be in play for All Star appearances, Gold Gloves, MVP, etc. He could earn anywhere from $25-30M. For a player of Buxton's ability and potential, he could easily achieve those kind of $ value IF he's just on the field. IF he's healthy enough to earn his incentives, NOBODY, including the Twins and their ownership, would object to paying that kind of money because he's paving the way to an MVP season and the team should be following him toward a playoff type season.

I'm disappointed if you are correct. I don't know what future he has, and his loss shouldn't hurt the system in any dramatic way. And he really seems destined for a repeat of AA again to begin 2022, but I think he has a shot as a useful 4th OF with defense and speed.

Thanks! Guess I missed that somewhere. Don't know how he is going to turn out, but I'm glad to keep him. We're short of young SS who can field and may actually be able to hit a little at the top of the system. I say that with all due respect to Lewis and Martin as I'm not certain if Martin can/will stick at SS and Royce is coming off his injury.

Just wanted to say that I think both sides debated well, fairly, and intelligently. I agreed with various arguements from both sides and nearly voted neutral. Ultimately, I did choose to vote to include milb in the union. Having representation, a presence/vote but not a full share, won me over as a workable option. I guess I feel the players are still a part of the ML player structure and it's where the current players all came from originally.

For the record, I'd really like Palacios and Whitefield back. Neither appears to be a top prospect, but both are worth keeping around. Palacios finally learned to hit and found some power. Whitefield has the defense and speed to be an interesting bench piece down the road. Wonder if Telis likes the organization enough to come back, or, is he looking for a better opportunity to maybe get actual ML time?

Wallner has certainly been impressive and I would expect he's starting day 1 for Wichita next year. The one bad performance doesn't diminish what Laweryson has done thus far. I think we have a guy to keep a serious eye on for 2022. Still unsure about all 3 LH's but there is obviously there based on their K numbers last year and the ability to get additional K numbers in the AFL. Jury is out, but I'm still intrigued. A little disappointed in Helman. As a good athlete with speed, budding power and positional flexibility, I thought he might build off of his 2021. SSS I know, but doesn't feel like he's taking advantage at this point and taking that next step.

Ted, we agree on Stroman and Gray and I have the 2 of them heading my 2022 rotation. I do have Gray for a higher $AAV but happy to drop down to $10M from $12-14M. We differ on the #3 option, however. While Mahle is a fine young arm, your proposal trades away a couple young arms that might be as good and ready as early as this season. And you do so for only 2yrs of control. Not a bad idea, but why not Cobb or Pineda on a 1yr or 1+1 deal to solidify the rotation and provide opportunity for the young arms nearly ready? I like the Holland idea as a cheap flier with rebound upside. But there are 3 or 4 arms I like and feel safer about for another few $M and I think I'd go that route to better secure the back end of the pen. Baez would be awesome. I'd love it! But it means keeping the bullpen add and 3rd SP at low cost and that's where I'm going to disagree with Baez coming on board. I think Stoman should sign for $18-20M. But it's going to take $22-23M IMO to get it done. And Gray has been good enough, is young enough, and still has some upside I think he's going to be $12-14M. I hope I'm wrong, but that's how I see it playing out. That's why I look at a filler SS that is a solid player and a better addition to the pen. Even then, the payroll is pushing for the extra 10% that I'm calling for with butts in the seats, 2020 behind us, and the FO saying they intend to be competitive. $140M-ish payroll is well within the financial parameters the Twins have spent in recent years, and fits comments made by the FO that they are looking at keeping payroll within recent parameters. And the only long term $ they are committing is to a couple quality rotation arms. Those two commitments should in no way handicap the near future. I just don't see a fit for Baez, or any other top FA SS, unless A] The Twins bump payroll to $150M, OR B] The Twins can actually, successfully, lower obligated payroll with a move of Donaldson and maybe Sano. Then, you MIGHT have room to add a top SS FA. Even then, it might take some combination of BOTH A AND B to get it done. I think the offense, and offensive potential is good to great.. I think the defense has a chance to be pretty solid as well. I think the team can compete as long as the staff is SOLID and the pen is SOLID. Neither has to be GREAT. But both have to be SOLID. Wish there was an easy/smart/lucky way for the rotation to be re-tooled and the pen have at least ONE solid addition and still leave room for one of those top FA SS. I just don't see it.

I actually like Bundy as a bounceback #3 rotation option. I almost put him in my blueprint. He was quality just a year ago, and was considered quality with upside when LA acquired him. Doesn't sound sexy but could be good as well as inexpensive. And I almost put Martinez on my blueprint as a bullpen option. It would seem the best way to re-establish him and get the most out of him.

My eye test has been seeing Arraez as a solid 3B despite some bad plays here and there. There is nothing great about him defensively anywhere, but I've always believed he's solid wherever he plays. This rating seems to support my eye test. So 3B and 2B are just fine with what we have on hand. Kirilloff should solidify 1B as the primary there while seeing some time in the OF. I've maintained I'd be fine with Simmons back at SS if I knew he'd be the OPS producer he was the previous 4-5 years. Otherwise, I think a change has to be made. But there are SS options out there that are solid gloves that have decent bats who could replace him. Really, other than 1B, the only spot to really improve defensively...can't believe I'm saying that after the first 2 months of 2021....is LF. And until someone steps up and really grabs that spot, it's going to be a mash-up if multiple players and the defense might be questionable at times. For now, I'm OK with whatever platoon makes sense there for improved offense and average-ish defense.