DocBauer

#5, how is Arraez moving around and how does he look in the field as well as at the plate after an intense n offseason or work and the reported loss of 11 pounds.

Playing the amateur GM game, this not the way I would have approached the re-tooling of our beloved Twins. But nobody has offered me the job, or sought my advice, lol. So let's look at this yellow brick road idea. I'm not as big a fan or Story as a lot of others. Despite various reports I've read that his bat comes around later on road trips as he becomes acclimated to being away from Coors Field, I'm still worried about his huge career splits. Now, NOT having half his games in the thin air might alow him to further adjust on a regular, daily basis, and he might be just fine. That's the hope, right? Even then, I doubt we'd see the same kind of numbers/production he had in Colorado. Doesn't mean he wouldn't still be a solid hitter with said adjustments, just probably not the producer he was previously. He fits a HUGE need, the $ is there to make it happen, and he'd be the best every day SS the Twins have had since...you pick the player and year. It's been a while. And his signing in no way is an indictment of Lewis's potential or future. The kid needs to PLAY. What's the worst case scenario? A year, year and a half from now the Twins have a great young talent ready and can stick at SS or move around? That's a GREAT problem to have! I hope a Story happens, and I hope it happens soon so we can continue to put this team together. I DON'T like moving both Garver AND Rortvedt at all, even though I like Jeffers and think he will do just fine. I'm not as down on Sanchez as some. While not great defensively, he can offer experience and leadership to Jeffers and the team as a whole. He has undeniable power, and has consistently kept his OB above .300 even with a declining BA. A new start, new opportunity, could his bat rebound? Even hitting in the .220-.230 range with power could provide value. And while the Twins like to rest their catchers, I bet he only starts about a third of the games. But I'd sure like to see someone else brought on board in some capacity for depth. The Twins have a handful of guys who have at least SOME promise, but we're lacking anything close to ready depth at this point. I kinda like Urshela as a depth/insurance piece at 3B and SS with at least a little experience and possibility at 2B and 1B. The glove is at least OK. It appears the bat is at least OK, and he has power. He could provide help, especially if Arraez is moved in a deal. I like getting Gray. Period! The LAST THING I want the FO to do is trade off a slew of top prospects for a short term gain. But between a deal with Oakland, maybe Miami, or even re-visiting another deal with Cincinnati, adding a 2nd quality arm really puts this team in a good place. But again, the last they need to do is mortgage the future for 2022. Some have viewed the Yankees trade as a cost cutting move. Well, yea, it is. But that cost cutting move frees the team to make a Story deal. It allows them to maybe extend whatever pitcher they still add. They might even tack on a quality RH bullpen arm to really set things up there. (Pun slightly intended). And there is additional $ potentially coming off the books in the next year or so for greater flexibility. There is a real method to the madness with the FO I can clearly see. But it might just blow up in their face if they don't make the Story signing a reality.

OK, I've never been a fan of Donaldson's attitude or mouth on occasion. But I love his dedication and love for the game. (And he hasn't necessarily been wrong with some of his accusations). I have LOVED how he embarced being a mentor to the Twins young kids when brought on board. He and Cruz BOTH provided a professional influence, though in different ways. And frankly, forgetting production Donaldson may still provide, I'm a bit worried about team leadership at this point. Donaldson was a fine producer in his Twins uniform and a good leader. But things do change. And if the FO pulls off what they are attempting to do, the change may be for the betterment of the future. I keep thinking how much I dislike the catching depth with Sanchez becoming our #2 option. And maybe that will still change. But IF the Twins stick with him on a 30% playing format, he still offers a veteran influence for Jeffers. He might still get OB and provides some POP. And MAYBE his BA and overall production rises with a new team. But MAYBE his best trait is being a clubhouse presence and an advisor to Jeffers.

To me, the plan, based on moves and reports is obvious. And I'm sorry I haven't had time to read everything or like or comment. The Twins cleared the books for Story. They would LOVE 4yrs, but they are smart enough to know it's not going to happen. So they are looking at him playing SS...reports had Story turning down an offer to change positions...and sign him for 5yrs at $20-22ish per and front load the contract to absorb cost while they can afford to do so. And they CAN afford to do so, even if the cost is "slightly" higher. Next, they are talking to the A's about a trade for Montas or Manaea. (You might substitute the Marlins in here for one of their pitchers). Such a trade will hurt, at least a little, but what they want/need is TBD. I could easily see Arraez, maybe Urshela as a short term option, and Larnach or Wallner, and at least one of the Twins best young arms. Considering the Bassit trade, Duran is clearly in play here. As might be a number of our top pitching prospects. But they also might be wanting to dump a contract as they have a few guys they may want to move on from. And the good news is the Twins have the finances to do so in 2022 and 2023, potentially. So an A's trade might hurt, but the hurt may be mitigated a bit by prospects vs taking on salary for the A's. So it could end up being a 1 for 3 or 2 for 3 vs a 1 for 4. That works in the Twins favor. The point is, despite "hurt", said hurt might not decimate the system while bringing in another top arm. Still worried about a better option besides Sanchez at catcher, and want to use $ for a quality BP arm to make this staff really work, but I absolutely see what the FO is doing. Hope like hell they make it work.

I like Gray and adding him absolutely makes the team immediately better. And while it stinks to move someone as tantalizing and with such a high ceiling as Petty, history is pretty harsh on HS arms, even 1st rounders. On the surface, this is a good move. My only issue is: 1] There were a handful of arms at least comparable in FA to be had for money only...albeit at a higher yearly than Gray...and no prospects had to be traded. 2] I wish they had done #1 and still made this trade. I'm sure they aren't done yet. The question is another trade or a FA? If they weren't going to drop $18-20M on anyone, I sure wish they had moved fast and hard on Kikuchi right after the lockout's end. Not yet 30yo, good velocity and stuff to work with, I think he might be a steal in 2022. Looks like Pineda is the best remaining FA. Still seems like a natural fit. Another trade would cost more, but would probably provide a higher return as well. I like the Gray trade and think it was smart. I just think it could have been part of something bigger. Much like signing a SS and either keeping Garver or using him as part of a different deal for pitching. Fine moves. It's just the amateur GM in me feels an opportunity for BIGGER may have slipped by.

So I read the news early this Saturday morning and worked all day, then ran errands, read every single opinion on TD to the time when I'm posting now, did a little research on career numbers, and even listened to Tom's video post/opinion before I began to voice my thoughts/opinion. All of this to be dispassionate about my opinion and attempt to look at things from a practical and logical approach. I wanted to be fair after my early morning surprise. My opinion after much time and contemplation: I don't like this trade. In the interest of total "fairness", I feel it's important to look at the pro's and con's involved, from Falvey's statement, to the opinions shared by all the posters, to my own thoughts. CONS: 1] We can debate all we want to about Garver's defense, but overall, receiving, game calling, framing, throwing, it was at least solid if not pretty good. Fair? His offense has been above or well above average since his ML debut with the exception of 2020 when he basically played hurt the whole year and tried to gut things out. He doesn't ever have to reproduce 2019 numbers again to be one of the best offensive catchers in all of MLB. Yes, he's had a concussion and a couple of injuries. His serious injury in 2021 was completely freakish in nature, and he STILL came back to play and pound and produce at the plate. He's not old at a little over 31yo and has been on a "time share" behind the dish with an approach the Twins like and I applaud. So limited number of games played is GREATLY skewed by this. I was looking forward to having no fixture at DH and allowing him to get a little time there on a share basis to keep his bat in play. He wouldn't have brought a quality ML SP on his own, but could have been part of a 2 for 1, or similar, that might have. 2] SS was a gaping hole! And the Twins needed a 1-2yr fix/option at least. Saying the talented and athletic Martin has ZERO chance to play SS in the long run might be accurate. Probably is. But to not allow him to try and a light bulb turning on after ONE professional season is wrong. (Even if it turns out he can only be a fill-in at the spot). Further, despite time missed, Lewis is just as talented an athlete, probably more so, and still just might be THE GUY once he gets back to playing again. With Galvis removing himself from the discussion with a surprising move to Asia to play, there was a chance the respected/proven Iglesias might rebound in 2022. Villar could maybe handle the spot for a year and at least provide an offensive upgrade. For that matter, Simmons is still a high quality defender who has a higher career OPS then IKF despite his awful 2021. Any kind of rebound to his career norm would make him a viable and quality short term option. And on the trade front, do the Cardinals really want to spend several $M for DeJong as a utility/fallback option? I thought he could be grabbed for a couple decent prospects from St Louis. 3] Catching depth is now removed from the Twins system as there are a handful of "interesting" prospects who could advance in 2022, but Jeffers and the probably "not quite ready" Rortvedt are now in the spotlight and I have no clue where the depth comes from. PROS: 1] Garver HAS had a concussion and some other injuries, though the 2021 groin injury/surgery MIGHT be dismissed based on it's freakish nature. And while his workload has been carefully monitored by the Twins' , he has yet to be a 60-70% full time catcher. While I believe he's a young 31yo backstop, I can see other teams questioning injury and age as to his future behind the dish. And I do agree that his trade value may be higher now than a year from now. (I'm looking at THIS trade at the moment, and not part of a different package, to be clear). 2] I dismiss the idea of catcher splits in regard to offensive numbers in regard to 2021 Garver/Jeffers. I tend to dismiss in general because I haven't seen many teams over the years who have a "perfect" split of RH/LH. I just think Jeffers got off to a bad start in 2021. And I sorta expected that as he was young and needed to make some adjustments as pitchers adjusted to him. But drafted as an offense first catcher, he has developed nicely as a defensive backstop, probably better than Garver. He hit in college, hit in milb, has flashed at the ML level, he's younger, he's better defensively overall...now he gets the reps to be part of the future. He may never be the pure hitter Garver was, but could come close. And with even better defense, might be the better player. Rortvedt, IMO, is not yet ready, despite his defense and "Gung ho" attitude. I don't know if there is ANYONE available right now on the FA market or really cheap trade, to bring in as a short term backup, but I'm hoping there is. And that's not a knock on Rortvedt. If you look at his history, he's made improvements yearly. I love the kid. But just a little more time to develop could give the Twins a great 1-2 punch as early as this year. I'd still like another veteran involved because I'm worried about AAA depth at this point. But it's now time for a couple talented prospects to get their time to establish themselves. And the potential is pretty damn good. 3] I was surprised to find out Kiner-Falefa is actually relatively new to being a SS after being converted from catcher. (Never heard of that move before). Now, that conversion took place a few years ago, but I find it interesting. He's spent time at 2B and 3B, as well as SS but he looks like a true defensive SS. He's at best an OK offensive SS, and he has some speed which I value and like, but his 20SB is a career high. But speed on the bases, with an OK bat, and quality defense is nothing to dismiss. Just ready to turn 27yo, there is some upside in his game offensively and defensively. Not expensive, there is the "option" to keep him in some capacity, especially if he improves, vs just being a temporary option. But he DOES fill a need at SS for now. I actually love that he's athletic enough and versatile enough to even cover catcher. NOT that he was brought on for that. But it's interesting. Henriquez is also part of the trade. Not overly excited here, but I see value. We all know milb always has weight, if not height, incorrect based on original draft/signing numbers. Despite looking a bit lanky on video I've seen, I bet he's more in the 175-185lbs range these days. If he can whip it to the reported velocity with 2 pitches and a questionable 3rd, he could be a SP candidate, but he screams high velocity middle IP BP candidate. And that's OK. SUMMARY: This trade is not COMPLETE B.S. There is value here and some potential. I still don't like this trade. I think we sold wrong, not low, but wrong.

YES!!!

I think the OP is pretty spot on. And I like and agree with so many comments here. But I think there's a lot to discuss and I'm going to attempt to bullet point here; 1] Back in the day, I always hated only 2 divisions in each league. No matter how good you were, if you finished 2nd your season was done. Never made sense to me. I think 3 divisions in each league took WAY TOO LONG to happen, but it finally did, with a WC. I think baseball was better for it. I've never had a problem with 2 WC teams, but I've always felt the 1 game "coin flip" to advance was ridiculous. It should have always been a 3 game "play in" format. I am just fine with 12 teams, if you can actually make it work without similar "coin flip" games...but I will adjust I guess...and not prolong thr season well in to November. But I really hate a 14 team format! At that point, it's mediocrity vs money ONLY and everything becomes watered down. ESPECIALLY with this BIZARRE idea of a 1-0 nothing series lead on the books. Do we really want baseball to follow the NBA and NFL format of allowing .500 and below teams in, on occasion? Especially when the 162G marathon is supposed to mean something? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! And the "ghost win" is so abhorantly ridiculous I can't even laugh! Just play a 3 game series or continue with the 1 game "coin flip" that I hate. At least it would be decided on the field. 2] Regarding sustainability, that doesn't mean, and has never meant, the Twins would be in contention EVERY season. NOBODY can guarantee that EVERY season. It's about being a good, solid team with a chance to win and be relevant MOST years. (Same with any sport). Over the past 5 years the Twins won, went to the playoffs, lost, and then won 101 and 36 games, (prorated was about 96G), and were in the playoffs and then had a weird, bizarre, who could predict 2021. THREE winning seasons out of five and in the playoffs. And no matter how much we want to look back on 2021 with revisionist eyes and opinions, or languish about how things didn't turn out and this and that happened...2021 just HAPPENED. Even the pundits felt the Twins would win, and fight the Dirty Sox for the Central crown. Crap happens, and it happened in Biff Tannen horse crap way. But 3 of 5 years, to me, is a mark of sustainability, even with unexpected disaster in 2021. 3] When crap happens like it did in 2021...and I include an implosion of prospects, mostly pitching being affected by a variety of 2020 factors, and the Twins weren't the only team affected...sometimes a team needs a re-set. It's unfortunate, and sucks, but it's reality. The Maeda injury only magnifies the issue. I am NOT a fan of punting on 2022, especially with the talent on hand, and an expanded playoff format. And while a fan of our FO, I am NOT a fan of ignoring the opportunity to add pre-lockout that seemed so obvious to me. Add while still providing opportunity during the season just made so much sense! I would be stunned if the FO traded more than 2 players off the 40 man as well as 2-4 prospects from the top 15-20 list to add pitching. I DO believe that they had some trade options they liked but couldn't pull the trigger due to the lockout. I NEVER saw the Oddo trade, or the Maeda trade, or the Donaldson signing. I was even pleasantly surprised by the Cruz signing. So I really have no clue what our FO is looking at once the lockout is done. Could they make a Story or Rodon signing? Maybe. Could they trade from ML and milb depth to aquire a quality pitcher? Absolutely and maybe. Could they bring back Pineda and someone like Kikuchi to flesh out their roation with a veteran and an "upside not yet realized" addition? Yes. Maybe Odorizzi comes back cheap but as a good fit. Again, not exactly happy how things happened, or didnt happen, pre-lockout. And no matter what happens, i think having room for young pitchers being allowed to progress and audition is important. And i think that is ultimately part of the 2022 plan. But I dont feel the FO is done with moves once the lockout is done. ..

A little surprised Knoblauch wasn't on this list. And I could be mistaken, but I thought Jay Bell was highly regarded before being traded.

To address each issue: 1] The larger base idea is mostly to prevent injury, as I understood it's initial milb introduction. And I'm fine with that, as well as the concept that a culminate 3" gained between bases. That may not sound like a lot. But it could assist the excitement of the running game becoming part of the game again. It changes the complection of the "bang-bang" plays at 2B and sometimes at 3B. In a game literally measured by inches, it could bring excitement as well as safety. A] A HR by your favorite team is incredibly exciting! B] A triple by your favorite team may actually be more EXCITING to see/watch than a HR. C] Your team pulling of a successful SB has to be amongst one of the most exciting things to see. 2] MLB is NOT the wonderful game of local softball leagues with a rover. I am not opposed to shifting your OF, or re-aligning your infield. Never have been. But I've never liked the "over shifts" that have taken place the past few years. And I don't say that because I want Kepler to suddenly be an All Star, LOL. I say it because I think the game has lost some of it's excitement and interest. In any sport, you play a position. Let's think the NFL and nickel and dime backs for coverage and even designated rushers. They are adjusting for down and distance. So the offense should adjust, right? And some talk about "hitting the other way" or "laying down bunts" in MLB. And that's not wrong. But 20÷ years ago pitchers weren't throwing 95-ish without steroids. And the batters were just beginning to work and develop year round. So between pitchers getting even more filthy and lack of teaching, it's too easy to just say "hit the other way or bunt". But how about we just resort to the basics of the game? What's wrong with that? In the NFL or NBA there are still rules about man to man or zone. In MLB, I'm 100% about feet in the dirt. Shift your OF, shift your infield. And the SS or 2B can have their foot on the bag, but that's where they begin. 3] I'm fully in favor of a pitch clock. And being OCD, LOL, I hate the 14 and 19 option I've read about. Just make it 15 and 20 for goodness and relative sake. MLB pitchers will adjust...or they won't. But I'm still confused how this relates to batters as well. Does a batter get to pull away once, twice, to adjust? And how many times does a pitcher be allowed to step off to re-start the clock? I'm 100% on a pitch clock, I just to know a few more details.

Baseball is not going to die. Kids are still playing and loving the sport, though the pool of young, talented athletes have almost undoubtedly diminished with soccer, football, and even lacrosse growing across the country. College baseball seems to be growing in popularity, which is great, and those players come from somewhere. When this lockout ends, true baseball fans, including myself, will rejoice no matter how upset we are at this temporary stoppage. And while I have nothing to link to right now, I believe it's been shown that the average age of a MLB fan is growing. That means despite the fact kids are still playing, still playing in college, the youth of America is looking more and more towards football, basketball, other sports, or little interest in sports all together in favor of other activities. I've talked to my kids about baseball, forced them at times to listen to a game on the radio, and even taken them to a few games, or milb games, where they enjoyed the EXPERIENCE of a live game. But without a true love for the game, does the youth of today go and watch on their own? If and when there is no-one to "take/drag" them to a game, where do they find the "love" of the game? The TV contacts are going to diminish. And then the owners will wonder whatever happened to interest and lost revenues. Still shocks and surprises me how little interest ownership has in GROWING the game and it's popularity vs clutching every last dollar they can today. Don't they increase monetary value if the sport grows? And don't they "get back" whatever they feel they "lose" by "giving in" to certain union demands? I still find it darkly humorous that they can't see the NFL and NBA models for success and stubbornly refuse to adapt. Now, I do think ALL professional sports might be in for a rude awakening one of these days when fans can't afford to pay/attend as they used to, and corporations don't want to pay as much any longer for suites and bulk seating, but that is a different discussion for a different day. The lockout and missed games probably doesn't affect MLB short term, but it's division and lack of growth is going to have a long term affect that neither side seems to see or care about at this time.

I also wonder just how much better Kubel might have been if he hadn't tore up his knee. Banks was part of a GREAT collection of young pitchers that basically did nothing; Baumgartner (?), Nivens, Gasser, Nivens, Pittman, and Newman. Newman, IIRC, found some success as a coach. McCarty and Walker seemed like can't miss hitters. I'm still surprised that neither approached projections.

I'd leave Cavaco and Sabato off the list as lockout or not, they aren't going to be ready to help soon. (Especially Cavaco). But I would absolutely put SWR and Palacios on the list. And along with them, Gore, Mason, Hamilton, and just about any other bullpen arm that might position themselves for helpful/quick promotion once the ML season begins. Contreras might surprise as a call up 4th OF spot. And though few want to hear it, Cave, Garlick just might re-establish themselves as role player options.

His milb numbers are nothing special, but are solid for sure. And he has never been bitten that badly by the HR bug until his ML debut. I don't think his rookie introduction damns him for the future. I do wonder if he might not stick in the the Saints rotation initially. You hate to give up on a rotation option too soon, and depending on how long the lockout lasts, he might be needed in the rotation. It would also afford him a little more time to continue refining his pitches. But yes, I think his best role is going to be as a RP. I think his slider plays well there and I also agree that he seems to have a calm demeanor that should help him make that transition. But the FB has to play up for him to be better than a middle reliever. If it does, I could see him growing in to a possible set up man.

Maybe my memory is wrong, but Ueberoth was ML commissioner for a few great years who brought cache that the owners couldn't deny. And MLB was fine and grew.. Bud Selig wasn't exactly a good commissioner at all! And he will forever have a stain on him for is role. But he will be remembered for labor peace at least. Being a "former" owner he brought his own cache. Manfred is a bogus mouthpiece who has no love for the game and has no skin involved. He's happy to cash his checks until the owners decide, FINALLY, they are tired of the BS and want someone to lead MLB in to the future. No clue who that guy will be. Sure hope owners will figure it out soon. So why be romantic about baseball? Because it endures. Despite college football and the NFL and the NBA growth, and this CBA BS, baseball endures College BB and milb endures. MLB endures because we love the game. It endures because my father taught me the game over transistor radios and4car radios to know and love the game. And so yes, despite the BS that is occurring now, I LOVE BB and am just waiting for great days and great moments to come.

I think Wallner has the stuff to make it and make a difference if he can maintain his current numbers. In other words, the SO are OK as long as he keeps doing everything else at the same level as he has been so far. But he's probably the only question mark here, health permitting. I want all of these guys to do well and believe all can. But the one guy that I am enamored with and want so badly to do well is Canterino.

I think Winder is more or less a given, so he doesn't qualify as a sleeper. Neither does Balazovic. But Sands is one of 2 sleepers for me, Strotman being the other. Sands has flown under the radar a bit for reasons I don't understand. All he's done is perform and perform well since being drafted. Yes the walks were a little high in 2021, but doesn't it seem that was an issue all across baseball? Feels to me the return from the lost 2020 not only affected health, but control as well. I will be surprised if Sands doesn't make an appearance at the ML level in 2022, even if it's to assist the pen. Strotman is my top sleeper. He also suffered from a rise in walks last year coming back not only from rehab but the lost 2020. The rest of his numbers looked pretty good before coming to the Twins. Again, was he running out of gad? Now, can we please just play some ball so we can actually see these kids play?

I hate discussions like this, even though they are fun and interesting, because it's almost impossible to pick 4. And hell, we could even make a Rushmore based on ONLY being a Twin, or maybe a 75 % career Twin, etc. Be that as it may be...my grudging $.02. I LOVE me some Bert. He is one of the greatest SP in Twins history. And to this day I believe he should have been in the HOF way before he was. BUT...he had a lot of his career outside of wearing a Twins uniform. And despite being a Twins player, broadcaster and ambassador I'm going to have to leave him off the list. [Yuck!] Killer, Carew, and Puckett are so obvious and for so many reasons that I just stop there. At 56yo, Oliva is a Twins LEGEND that my youth remembers only for his last few years as a Twin, as a ballplayer. I absolutely know his career as a player, a coach, an instructor, and an ambassador. I've always felt he was such an amazing ballplayer and producer of amazing numbers he never should have been penalized for injuries that cut his career short. He ABSOLUTELY was deserving of being in the HOF way before he was. Mauer isn't just a good story as the "hometown kid who did good". For 6+ years it could be argued he was one of the best catchers in the history of MLB. He did some things NEVER done before in ML history before his concussions. He, and Oliva, suffer from a "well you didn't do it for 10yrs due to I jury" syndrome. But as much as I adore and respect Oliva, I think I have to place Mauer for the 4th spot for what he did while at the catcher position.

Picks to click? I'd love to select Urbina or Rodriguez as super talented young players, but I'm really looking for them to still adjust and grow and not necessarily breaking out. So I have a couple: POSITION PLAYER: 1] Severino. He started to grow in 2021. I think he's ready to take the next step. 1A] Will Holland. He's a 5th round pick who looked like a top prospect before a poor junior season but signed after 2019. He barely played when signed and then missed 2020 like everyone else. He had a mediocre 2021 at best. He could make a real jump in 2022. 3] Wander Javier. It could be easy for him to say WTH, and move on. But I don't see that with him. I think he's grown in to his body and the baseball gods are going to shine on him and he's going to be healthy. I ALMOST want him to be #1, but I can't due to history. But I have a feeling where talent, time, work, and just time/luck is going to shine on him. PITCHER: I just can't pick Hajjar because hes a 2nd round pick who hasn't debuted yet. But I have 4 guys that are PRIMED to "click". And that's a GOOD THING! 1] Canterino. If he's healthy, he's on a rocket to finish at AAA if not a ML appearance. Limited IP makes him "elgible" for this list. 2] SWR. He's been bounced around and had the whole Olympic thing disrupt his development. Unless something happens unexpectedly, he's going to be able to get good coaching, settle down, and just PITCH and develop with some stability for the 1st time in a couple years. He'll probably throw at Wichita for the full season and that's OK. He needs that. Doesn't mean he doesn't break out. 3A] Povich was a surprise to me, even as a Husker fan. I think the Twins saw control and the ability to fill out physically, and add velocity, and maintain control. But I was surprised by reports of new velocity. Early returns are more than I expected. I don't think he can be dismissed . 3B] Raya. Truth be told, I WANT to put this kid #1 on my pitcher list. He was my favorite 2020 draft choice because I just 'felt" there was "something" there besides pitching in big games and numbers. Something about his stuff and attitude reminded me of Berrios, right or wrong. I thought we drafted a HS pitcher, always a big risk, that had the stuff and makeup to succeed. I was so disappointed he didn't pitch in 2021. But then I hear how good he looked in IL and I'm starting to think he and Petty might be a great duo at Ft Myers to begin 2022. DARK HORSE: Legumina and Mooney could surprise.

100%! I could see, kinda hope, that Julian will be an even better version of him in a year or so. And I just spent time on 2 different posts speaking about the actual value of a 2B and how different teams may construct their lineup and the value of different hitters in different spots,, as well as if Arraez spent time strengthening his lower half how it might lead to better health and maybe even additional pop/power even without changing his approach. BUT, I find it a bit ironic with all that has been said, and possible trade "speculation" in regard to the A's, Arraez would seem to be a perfect Moneyball acquisition for them as PART of a deal. I'm in no hurry to move him. I think we see the same value he presents to the Twins at this time. Just interesting that he seems to be a fit if such a trade were to take place.

I just wanted to add that any work to strengthen his lower half to strengthen joints, legs, etc, could also shift his overall strength index. Simply, by building his body a bit better, he might also provide more "oomph" in his contact which could lead to more XB pop/power, without changing his swing/approach.

I think this is a great question. IMO, 2B has gone through a transformation that occurred between 15-20yrs ago at SS, and CF to a degree. I'm speaking of watching baseball since the 70's, but I think my thoughts go back decades before. When we think about 2B "back in the day", it was a defensive position for someone who couldn't stick at SS. But the game back then was more station to station and bunting, hit and run, stolen bases, etc. Of course, SS has always been a defense first position. For decades, those spots were defense, and with little exception, you had light hitters you hoped had speed, or contact ability to move runners, etc. But over time, teams began putting their best athlete more and more at SS. And I'm sure advancements in training had an affect as well. Suddenly you began to see the A-Rods, Jeter's, etc, make SS an offensive position with these tremendous athletes. But 2B became a similar version. Much like an OF bat you can't put in RF or CF, you place them in LF. Of course there are exceptions. I grew up seeing Wilfong and Randal and others playing for the Twins at 2B. But it was a LONG time between Carew and Knoblauch! And then a number of years before Dozier. And I'm NOT saying your 2B can't be good defensively, but it has evolved in to a legitimate offensive position. Polanco, Altuve and others are current examples. I believe 2B has perhaps even more value in today's game than it used to because you can place a great bat there that simply can't play SS to the level you want defensively. It's not "hiding" a bat...but it kinda is in a way. Now, what VALUE any player has on a team at ANY position is still up to the team to decide. I mentioned CF briefly before. I never saw Mays play. But I watched Griffey, Puckett and others almost re-define the position from a fast guy who could field to a guy who could hit and bring power. So what's really changed is "old fashioned" roster construction. There used to be certain precepts of how you built a lineup and where you expected your offense to come from. And I know this reference is dated, but Boggs was a leadoff hitter at 3B for Boston for years instead of being a middle of the order bat. Again a dated reference, but Downing was a simi,similar, no speed leadoff hitter for the Angels who could hit, get OB, and provide power. These were precursors for Beane and his Moneyball approach that has continued to re-shape the modern game. This is also why I've stated previously that if you have hitting and power across your lineup from WHATEVER positions, does your DH HAVE to be a power hitting RBI entity? How about a guy who sets the table? So all of this is not necessarily to pump up the value of Arraez directly, but to address your question about 2B. It's as valuable as any other lineup spot, a place where you can place a tremendous bat, but every teams lineup construction is different.

Yes. They are very different ballplayers at this point. Arraez is the better hitter, by quite a lot at this point, and the OB machine. Gordon brings a speed element we have little of, can cover SS at least so-so, and seems to play a passable CF. And I think it's dangerous to not have 2 utility types. The issue with keeping both of them is maybe not having room for Miranda until someone gets hurt.

Echoing chpettit19 that Arraez has real value and it's much easier to say "move him and we'll be just fine" and it's another thing to actually make that happen. He fills a very different skill set as a batter that this team sorely lacks. And right now, his best, eventual replacement options on the roster are probably a season away. But if moving him makes good sense to bring in a quality SP as part of a deal, I get it and am not saying no. I do question Arraez AND a pair of top 10 prospects though. If with the Twins, I would absolutely continue to work with him in LF. I e seen worse, and he has room to be better. Being able to come off the bench and play 3 spots instead of 2 as well as DH just makes him that much easier to fit in the lineup. And I'd have him batting #1, working counts, and getting OB almost every single day.

I feel the need to be less polite than I normally am in regard to Martin. Can we just let the kid play a little ball before we dismiss his ability or promote him to All Star status? Whew! The kid is a super athlete, like Lewis, and considered a TOP prospect. But virtually overnight he's gone from a potential #1 pick to the 5th pick, to missing 2020, debuting at AA and holding his own PLUS! And opinions have him lacking a position to questionable power despite a good bat and great OB ability. Some seem to think he should be in LF almost immediately. Can we just pause for a moment to slow roll Martin? We should, without diminishing his potential or skill set. 1] What he did with his bat jumping from a lost year to AA shouldn't be discounted. He has "bat" potential. 2] Not only was he jumping to pro vs college after a lost season, but he was fighting a wrist injury. He has inate power in himself, but the wrist has to be healthy, and I'm sure it will be. Then it becomes trusting his approach as well as his stroke, and that's where coaching comes in to play. 3] Said it before and will say it again, he should continue to play as much SS as he can. Why wouldn't you? The WORST that could happen is he's a fill-in at SS. Hell, he might surprise and a bulb turns on and he suddenly feels comfortable there. 4] I see him as a LF, and soon, who can cover Buxton in CF, and can cover 2B/SS/3B as needed. He might end up being a full time player at the top of the order who plays everywhere. And there is tremendous value in that. Think a better version of Marwin. And isn't that the way baseball has been heading? Versatility. He MIGHT surprise us all at SS. But I see him as our 2023 LF. I think power will come. And he doesn't have to be a 25--30HR hitter to play LF. Who decided LF was a questionable defender with power? They Royals had a Gold Glove defender and offensive force for years with Gordon. The Twins did great with Hatcher and Gladden in LF. Ideally, soon, Lewis will take over SS, and Martin will be a "do everything" LF who covers CF and will be able cover some infield if needed. Lewis could easily be a STUD in LF. But how about we just give I'm a full 2022, only his 2nd pro season to see what he does first.