LA Vikes Fan

I don't get that at all. Outman has actually had success against MLB pitching, albeit in 550 PAs in 2023. Keirsey, not so much . . .

C'mon now. Outman is no prize but he's a lot better than DeShawn Keirsey. No reason to insult the guy.

Well, the moves were made and its a mixed bag. Some of promoting the youngish (Martin, Julien, Adams, Ohl), some of playing guys not in the long term plan (Erasmo Ramirez, Fitzgerald, Urena). Also tells us who among those recently arriving the team thinks are ready now (Alan Roden). OF - Martin, Roden, Wallner, Larnach, Keirsey (Buxton on IL) IF - Lewis, Lee, Julien, Clemens, Fitzgerald. Gaspar C- Jeffers, Vasquez SP - Ryan, SWR, Matthews, ?? BP - Sands, Topa, Tonkin, Ohl, Adams, Davis, Ramirez, Funderburk, Urena. Still one short. Have to figure Ober is activated to pitch tomorrow or early next week for one of the TBA games. Hopefully Urena and Ramirez are BP candidates only and won't get a start. I would love to see Abel in the rotation or at least Taj Bradley starting next week. BTW, where is Keaschall? I did look and it looks like he's 6-32 in this 10 games or so, maybe needs time to get back into a rhythm.

Interesting. He’s been playing some OF. Any word yet on who’s coming up. I think we are at 7 open roster spots.

I'm a little surprised that Larnach didn't get traded. We also have to add Roden into the OF mix. He hasn't hit much in 100 MLB ABs, but with a wRC+ is 150 in AAA, there's no reason to leave him there. Maybe Buxton in CF, Outman/Martin in LF, Wallner in RF, Roden as a 5th OF, and Larnach at 1B? I'm legitimately clueless on how you put this together to field a team.

I started this so I guess I'll end it. The sell-off appears complete. So who is on the Twins MBLB roster tomorrow? Here's my take: SP - Ryan, Ober, SWR, Matthews, Taj Bradley or Mick Abel (with Lopez and Festa on the IL). Still a pretty strong group. RP - This oughtta be fun. I'm guessing this: Sands, Topa, Funderburk, Bradley or Abel, Adams, Ohl (if he can be recalled), with Prielipp and Peredes from AA? Hell, your guess is as good as and probably better than mine. C - Jeffers/Vasquez IB - Clemens 2B - Keschall SS - Lee 3B - Lewis LF - Larnach/Martin platoon CF - Buxton RF - Wallner 4th/5th OF - Outman UTL/Bench bats - Eeles, Julien. WOw, this could get ugly.

The beat goes on. Castro traded to the Cubs for "multiple prospects". Not sure who yet.

Hey, we still got half an hour. I'm with you, time for France, Vasquez, and Castro to go. None of them help what is going to be a completely rebuilding. A rebuilding team with, ironically, a strong starting rotation in 2026.

I was just going to post that what all of this tells me is that they are either close to finishing the sale or the sale has completely fallen apart. Either way, they are clearing the decks for this year while leaving some talent on the roster. My optimistic guess is the sale is in the final stages with the Pohlads responsible for this season financially so they are facilitating their exit and leaving new ownership with a reasonably fresh slate by basically dumping anyone who is not controllable or is making any money. My pessimistic read is that the sale is not happening and they are trying to lessen their losses for this year in the hope of selling in the off-season.

Well here we are on July 31 and the sell-off is well under way. SO far, Duran, Stewart, Bader, Cploumbe and, of al people, Correa are out of here. Who replaces them?

Fun exercise for tomorrow - who's on the Twins? By my count we are trading 5 of the 26 man roster so far. Even if we assume Outman goes onto the MLB roster, that opens 4 spots - 2 in the bullpen, 2 on the roster. And that's so far. I'll bet it's 3 more spots before the day is over - Vasquez, Castro, and Jax will all be gone and I will bet that none of the players received in return will be on an MLB roster. What 7 players come up from AAA to take those spots?

I think this is spot on. My guess is that Houston called and he originally was unsure. Then he saw the team stumble into and out of the AS break, looked around and asked to go. He's 30, 31 in September, and in decline. He wants to go to a competitive team to finish his career. Can't blame him.

James Outman! I live in LA and follow the Dodgers so I can tell you what happened to him. In 2023, finished third in the Rookie of the Year balloting, had a 3.4 WAR, and was the Dodgers centerfielder for the next 5-7 years. In 2024, he got off to a terrible start, got hurt, and was replaced by Andy Pages, will promptly hit and took his job. Pages now starts and has a .795 OPS. Since then, Outman's played very infrequently and has not hit at all. I mean, not at all. This guy is a complete crapshoot. If given playing time, maybe he could return to the 2023 guy who had a .795 OPS in 550 plate appearances. He does have a .970 OPS in AAA this year in what's called a "hitter friendly" league. More likely though, this is Keirsey all over again. Not much of a return.

Agreed. Let's also not forget that Mason Miller was better than Duran last year even if Duran is better this year. Frankly, I see the two as pretty even with Miller probably a little more valuable because of the extra years of control and lower costs. Add in that the A's included a quality MLB fourth starter and you would expect them to get more in return than the Twins got for just Duran. And frankly, I'm not sure the A's did get more overall. Depends on whether Abel is a real pitcher.

So you're telling me that we traded Duran for two guys who fit in as roughly our fourth or fifth best prospect (Tait), and our seventh or eighth best prospect (Abel). Wait a minute, I thought we got fleeced and that Falvey crumbled under the weight of the mighty Dave Dombrowski? Soon you're going to tell me that the A's got a much better deal by trading Mason Miller, who was better than Duran last year but not as good this year, and JP Sears, who is a better and more durable starter than Paddack but probably not as good as Ober assuming he is back to his old self, for a really good 18-year-old shortstop prospect and some lottery ticket pitching prospects who might be great relievers in the future or who might be working at McDonald's in five years. That doesn't fit into the FO are bunch of idiots narrative I keep reading. Hmm....

I agree here. I guess I can see having Abel make one AAA start just so the current staff can see him up close or try to tweak on his delivery. Beyond that though, he needs to be making 8-10 MLB starts this season. There is plenty of room with Lopez still at least weeks away, if coming back at all this season, and Festa still out. By the way, it just occurred to me that the reason he has been assigned to St. Paul is that we need to clear space for him on the 26 man roster by making trades today. I would like to see Abel starting at our next opportunity which, I think, is next Tuesday in Detroit. I'm assuming that Ober starts Saturday, with Ryan Friday and SWR Sunday. Monday in Detroit would line up perfectly for Matthews, but then Tuesday is an open date for the rotation with Ryan lined up for Wednesday. Let's give Abel the start next Tuesday and see what we got.

SD doesn't have much pitching in the minors. Mason was better than Duran last year and has 4 years of control remaining after this year. Duran is better this year and has 2 years of control left after this year. Pretty even, although arguably Mason is better than Duran overall. JP Sears is Paddack plus, so the As gave up more than the Twins did. The As got the better headline prospect, looks like the Twins got the better secondary prospect although we'll have to see. Looks pretty similar although nuanced. Hard to see a real basis for claiming the Twins got fleeced or outplayed.

Here's something interesting. If you survey the current landscape after the trades so far, who is the best relief pitcher on the market? I think number one is Griffin Jax, and Brock Stewart and Danny Cloumbe are also in the top 10 available and maybe the top 5. There are some teams still looking for relief help and I would have to think they are burning up the phone lines to Minnesota to see if they can get Jax and/or Coloumbe, with Stewart as a fallback. There may be an opportunity to really sell high on these guys. Maybe that was the brilliant strategy all along. Sell Duran early, which panics teams like the Mets and Padres to make their deals early, and then leaves the Twins holding the best available relief assets for the teams left without a chair. The Dodgers, Cubs, Tigers, Yankees, Mariners, Rangers, and Blue Jays are all still looking for relief help. Maybe we can get that blocked first baseman or outfielder from Chicago, Long or Cassie, or maybe even Harry Ford plus from Seattle for Jax +1 of the other two. Hey, if were going to do a rebuild we may as well go for it. I think Coloumbe is a lock to be traded today, and the odds on Jax or Stewart going is about 65%. I think the chances that all three are traded are at least 50-50. Could be an interesting day

Not sure I agree. As gave up Miller and a decent starter in J.P. Sears (think A little better than Paddack). They got a really good prospect in Leo De Vries plus 3 unnamed pitchers, probably lottery tickets or AA guys that project as middle relievers. SD has no good pitching prospects. DeVries is 18, is a better prospect than the 19 year old Tait and both have the 3 years away kind of problem. Our second player in Abel is likely much better than any of the pitching prospects going with DeVries. Duran and Mason are close in value and the As threw in a 4th starter type. I would say the returns are similar at least adn the Twins might have gotten a little more.

FWIW, the writers at the Athletic give both the Twins and the Phillies a B+ to an A depending on which of the three you like. The consensus is that it's a good deal for both sides and that the Phillies basically paid sticker price for Duran. The depressing part of this is not the trade or the return, it's how far this team has fallen from possible contender basically engaging in a rebuild. This trade makes a lot of sense if you don't have the horses to contend for a year or two. I was kind of hoping that we did

Of course he does. The only sports fans in America that are more delusional than the fans in Philadelphia are the fans in Chicago. The Philly fans still think that "the process" for the 76ers is going to lead to a championship. I got to admit though, the Eagles are damn good and it looks like they're going to be damn good again this year.

You're right about that. The Twins got much more for Duran than the Giants did for Tyler Rogers.

Thanks. Seems like a fair evaluation with the Phillies at an A- and the Twins at a B+. The difference is that Philly got a guy that will help them now and you have to project the prospects helping the Twins. We will just have to see.

I would slightly differ. Abel will be in the rotation this year, probably starting within a couple of weeks if not right away. Keaschall will be playing every day this year, also probably starting within a couple of weeks if not right away. . Culpepper may make the team next year; more likely starts out in AAA while we wait to see if Brooks Lee is a major-league player. I can see Culpepper up by mid-season next year and maybe earlier if someone gets hurt. Tate is farther away, probably at least three years given that he's all of 19 years old, but he's a Catcher which is something we desperately need and which is much harder to find. I think the comparison works and I think we got a couple valuable guys in this trade. So even if I would not have traded Duran, and I would not have done so, hard to complain a lot about the return. I will tell you this though, I'm a little irritated that they decided on the full rebuild approach which is what the signals to me. I would have brought in a new manager to see if that was the problem first and then, if the results didn't get better, made these big moves in the off-season. But apparently that's not what they're going to do. I do expect Castro, Bader, Stewart, and probably Jax to follow Duran out the door. I would also not be surprised to see Correa in Houston, Vasquez in San Diego, and France on the street looking for work. We talked about a "soft sell". That's not what it looks like we're getting. This looks like the start of a hard sell/tear down of the roster.

That's a little misleading. Abel is 7-2 with a 2.31 ERA in AAA this year with 81 SOs in 74 innings and a 1.16 Whip. He's had his first 25 big league innings this year where he's 2-2. 5.04 ERA, 21 SOs and a 1.36 Whip. In other words, dominant in AAA this year and not a bad start for his first shot in the Bigs. Oh, by the way, he's all of 23 years old and was the 15th pick in the 202 draft. And he's the #2 guy we got. Tait is the headliner and he has a 55 FV, same as Emmanuel Rodriguez, Luke Keaschall, and Kaelen Culpepper. These two guys are the number 4 and 6 prospects on the Phillies top 20 and both were in the MLB top 100 before the draft - Tait at 56, Abel at 92. For reference, Walter Jenkins was 15, Emma 40, Keaschall 42, and Culpepper 82. They wanted 2 top 100 guys and got them. This return is essentially Keaschall and Culpepper. Look, I would not have traded Duran for reasons I've stated in other threads. If you do though, the idea that this is a paltry return or that Falvey got fleeced is a little over the top. You can argue about the wisdom of trading Duran for two prospects but if you do a mid-season trade that's what you get; prospects. I just wonder who is going to close for the rest of 2025 because let's face it, Jax sucks at closing. Actually wouldn't surprise me if Jax goes too before the deadline.