TheLeviathan

It is. Like....4th round will be full of guys worth taking shots at in those position groups. It's stupid good.

Their recent comments seem to indicate we have France and Castro on the right side. Yeah...that's a concern.

Which is totally reasonable...but I don't see the big play threat out of him. And I worry his injury issues (which preceded his stay in MN) are only going to continue. I'd rather have a tightend who can block the hell out of the running game or looks like he's damn near a WR. Hockenson seems like he's ok to good at both, but not dynamic. And he's paid like he's dynamic.

My biggest takeaway from this is that it cements the idea that the team is down on Brooks Lee and he's not even getting a real shot to win a spot in the lineup. Combine that with the red carpet they rolled out for France and I'm less than encouraged with the mindset we're walking into ST with.

Absolutely not. He's the team's 4th starter. Others are battling for 5.

That depends on a lot of factors. And even then he's only 24, hardly time to hit the panic button. This is too much, too soon. And we do this too often to our prospects.

I totally get that. This draft is loaded at TE and I love a bunch of dudes that will be available in the 3rd round. So...honestly, if I were running the Vikings - I'd extend Oliver and trade Hockenson. Oliver is easy to get for like a 4M cap hit and he's well worth that. He can start at TE and the team will be just fine. Downside is this is a lowpoint in Hockenson's value, so it's not likely to be a wise move.

So Pro Football Network now has a mock draft simulator and offseason simulator! https://www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-offseason-salary-cap-free-agency-manager Restructures/Cuts: Restructure O'Neill for 3 years, save 8.2M, Extend Oliver save 5M, Extend Metellus save 4M, Cut Ingram and save 3M, Extend Van Ginkel save 4M. Cap room 87M Resigns: Harrison Smith Retires, Slap Darnold with franchise tag, we found out at the combine that Vegas will give us 73 and 218 for him. WR Powell 2 years 1.5M, RB Cam Akers 1 year 1.5M, Dan Feeney 2 years 1.5M, DT Jalen Redmond 2 years 2M, DT Jerry Tillery 1 year 2M, TE Johnny Mundt 1 year 1.5M, S Theo Jackson 3 years 2.5M, CB Murphy Jr. 4 years 19M Cap Room 50M Free Agency: QB Carson Wentz 2 years 2.5M, OG James Daniels 2 years 8M, OG Will Fries 3 years 8M, Jevon Holland 4 years 17M, LB Devin White 1 year 2M, OT Cody Ford 1 year 2M Cap Room 7.5M Draft: (24, 73, 97, 140, 161, 218): Enter the draft looking to add DTs and RBs from a historic class. At 24: WR Golden falls, Washington calls to trade up offering 29 and 61 for 24 and 140. Snatch that. At 29: DT Kenneth Grant and Nolen are on the board, we take the zero technique in Grant. At 61: We have our choice of the Ohio St. Running backs - take Trayveon Henderson. At 73: CB Denzel Burke continues the Big 10 run at the draft. At 97: Giants offers us 104 and 134 for 97 and 161. Bills then offer us 107 and 171 for 104. So we take that too. At 107: CB Cobee Bryant At 134: WR Pat Bryant At 171: RB RJ Harvey At 218: OL Jacob Gideon Final Roster: QB: McCarthy, Wentz, Rypien RB: Henderson, Akers, Harvey, Chandler, Ham WR: Jefferson, Addison, Nailor, Powell, Bryant TE: Hock, Oliver, Mundt T - Darrisaw, O'Neill, Ford G - Daniels, Fries, Brandel, Feeney, Gideon C - Bradbury, Jurgens DL - Grant, Phillips, Redmond, LDR, Tillery, Taimani Edge - Gink, Greenard, Turner, Murphy, Richter ILB - Pace, Cashman, White, Asamoah CB - Murphy, Blackmon, Bryant, Burke, McGlothern S - Holland, Jackson, Metellus, Ward IMO, the line is better and deeper on offense. Harvey and Henderson are awesome backs. Bryant is a fun upside reciever. This caters well to the young QB. The cost of that is much less depth in the defensive front and a much younger secondary.

I appreciate the article much more than the title. 23 year olds definitely shouldn't feel like this is their make or break year. Even characterizing him as "former top prospect" feels weird. Dude has 185 plate appearances....the hell are we doing here?

I really liked his mock offseason, though a few things should be pointed out: 1) That OL would be a dream but Booker ain't making it to 23 much less 43. That trade-down effectively takes us out of the mix for the high end DTs. (Though I love Phillips) Henderson is a nice scoop. 2) The secondary would be Theo Jackson, Metellus, Holland, Samuel, Blackmon, and the rookie he took. The DL would be Milton Williams, Harrison Phillips, and the two rookies he took. So the offset of signing those guys is those two areas of the defense are a little shaky. You can fill it out with Jerry Tillery types, but it's shaky. 3) Man I hope that Darnold trade is an option. Being able to net a pick in the 70s of this draft is going to land us a good player.

Maybe with less investment, but they weren't going to shop at the big boy table and that's just a fact I've had beaten into me since Terry Ryan. It is what it is. We're 100% on the same page about France. And I keep hoping to see that Vazquez trade happen.

Woof, I understand wanting to be positive and boost your players up....it's another thing to basically give him the 1B job. I hate everything about this.

KOC was pretty clear he wants him back too. I really hope that's not for more than 5M. Jones was good for us, but he looked old/hurt too often down the stretch.

Martin playing CF with a fly ball pitching staff is absolutely a major problem for this team. That day in/day out defensive issue would cost this team significantly depending upon how long it's required. If we can't agree to that, then it circles back to the fact that posters simply aren't putting enough value on the role of defense at a critical position. To put it simply - Castro and Martin's 60 starts in CF were absolutely a contributing reason why we missed the playoffs. Whoever the RH hitting OF is, is going to get played. That's what the current FO believes in, without Bader those at-bats were going to be Martin. Now, if they are Martin, it's because we're several levels down the depth chart. As it should be.

That was me on Kamara, so trust me on Skattebo too. :) (Also, check out harvey. Dude is a gasher like Gibbs) If we didn't have 20 open roster spots I could see pushing more at guard, but I don't think our resources will allow for that. I want one of the stud DTs and 1-2 RBs in this draft, but with our entire secondary in disarray I just dont think we can do more than splash for one guard. That or we are starting 2-3 Shaq Griffin level players at DB to pay for that extra guard.

So, we don't want 350 pound, Eagles SB champion Mechi Becton because he sucks? We aren't signing three IOL in FA. It's simply not happening. So anyone sitting here as a Vikings fan thinking "three IOL or bust" this offseason, prepare for disappointment. This team has almost an entire secondary, DL, and running back room to replace. They won't be using half their available payroll on the line. It's not possible. It's not wise even if it was. Also, these two thoughts are not totally in alignment. A slasher, high flyer is a good way to blow those 3rd and 2s also. The Vikings need to change their rushing culture. The Chandler types aren't what wins in this offense. You need someone you can rely on to move the ball forward and force teams to respect your play action. That set you up for 3rd and 4. 2nd and 3. I get you don't like Skattebo, but you're underselling his athleticism. He isn't Bettis. He's a better pass catching version of David Montgomery. Gibbs gets all the attention, but I guarantee you that Montgomery is a critical cog in making it all work.

Cool, show me the last small market dynasty in baseball. Show me the last team in baseball that had a 5-10 year competition window that wasn't New York, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Boston, Philadelphia, or Houston. We're at a point that in order for you to continue your argument you have to ignore my points. You ignored how misguided your Braves example was and you're ignoring the difference between the sports. You know why the Chiefs, Lightning, and Warriors were able to keep competing? Because, at the end of the day, when the players they drafted and developed were ready for larger contracts.....they were on even footing with all of their peers to retain them. The New York Giants don't have triple the payroll of the Chiefs. The Los Angeles Kings don't have quadruple (I'm underselling it by a ton) the budget of the Lightning. The Warriors aren't worried about the Knicks tripling the terms of their extension. They all play by the same rules. Your suggestions, which are fine, are prayers for cancer. Sure, they may make you feel good. Cancer DGAF.

I disagree that the OL sucked last year and I upgraded RG, so I'm happy with it. I think people are too stuck on dumping way too much cap space into guard because Sam Darnold held the ball for 87 seconds and made everyone look bad. I want one run blocking upgrade and I'm good. There seems to be wide disagreement about how far the DLs are going to drop in this one. The combine might sort it out. Other than Graham, guys like Harmon, Grant, Nolen, Stewart, and Tyleik Williams have a wide range of outcomes so far. You could definitely be right that he's gone, but there should be someone as low as 30 from that group.

I'm torn. I don't like the archetypes we draft for offense, though I like that we target offense early. I don't like that our young players always seem to be lesser defenders than I expect them to be given their athleticism and pedigree. On the flip side - the pitching pipeline does seem to be up and running. But all teams have to patch holes in their roster that the farm system fails to produce. I'm just fully on board with this patch. That's where I think some of the disconnect is, even if we largely agree.

To combine your two posts, I share your frustrations. I just can't level them at Bader because I think it would be FO malfeasance not to add someone for that role. France - every at-bat he takes from Wallner, Larnach, Miranda, or the guy selling beers in LF will piss me off.

I can appreciate your motivation, I think bandaiding a gaping wound the last 30 years is precisely the reason we are where we are. I'm all done with band-aids personally. The NFL has seen their most recent dynasty come out of the Kansas City market. The NHL's most recent dynasty was in Tampa Bay. And the NBA's was in Oakland. Think about how preposterous the very notion of any of those three markets doing the same in MLB. That's the issue, right there.

Let's go again now that PFN released a seven round mock and using Spotrac's manage roster. Smith Retires Restructure O'Neill - save 12M 3 year extension with Josh Oliver - save 3M 3 year extension with Josh Metellus - save 2.5M Cut Ed Ingram (save 3M) Resign Theo Jackson 2.5M Resign Byron Murphy Jr. 4 year 17M, initial cap hit of 12M Resign Cam Bynum 4 years 15M, initial cap hit of 10M Sign Cam Akers - 1 year 1.5M Sign Brandon Powell - 1 year 1.5M Resign Mundt 1 year 1.5M Resign Dan Feeney 1.5M Resign Jalen Redmond 2 years 6M Available Salary Cap for FA: 49M Sign CB DJ Reed - cap hit 12M Sign QB Taylor Heinicke - cap hit 2M Sign DT Javon Kinlaw - 3M Sign DL Emmanuel Ogbah - 2M Sign OG Mekhi Becton - cap hit 6M Sign OG/OT Cody Ford - 2M Sign Erick Kendricks - 2M Draft: (Starting picks 24, 97, 140, 161) Trade 24 for 30, 108, and 131 Pick 30 DT Kenneth Grant Trade 97 and 108 for 86 and 130 Pick 86: RB Cam Skattebo Pick 130: S Jaylen Reed Pick 131: CB Jabbar Muhammed Pick 140: DT Jordan Phillips Pick 161: RB RJ Harvey QB - McCarthy, Heinecke, Rypien RB - Skattebo, Harvey, Akers, Ham WR - JJ, Addison, Powell, Nailor, Trishton Jackson TE - Hockenson, Oliver, Mundt OT - Darrisaw, O'Neill, Ford, Rouse OG - Becton, Brandel, Feeney C - Bradbury, Jurgens DL - Grant, Ogbah, Kinlaw, Harrison Phillips, Jordan Phillips, Redmond, LDR OLB - Greenard, Van Ginkel, Turner, Murphy MLB - Cashman, Pace, Asamoah, Kendricks CB - Murphy, DJ Reed, Blackmon, Muhammed, McGlothern S - Metellus, Bynum, Jackson, Ward, Jaylen Reed Specialists - Reichard, DePaula, Some Punt Guy

The utilization is a function of organizational philosophy. His spot will get that usage, be it him or Austin Martin. So the complaint is misplaced IMO. To me it's simple: Buxton is the starting CF. As of two weeks ago plan B was Martin. If (when) Buck gets hurt that plan is the kind that gets your entire season sunk. It's the kind of contigency that doesn't require hindsight in August to see needed to be addressed. Does it suck we always fish in these flawed waters to plug those holes? Absolutely.....but it would've been roster malfeasance to walk in to the season without a better Plan B. And yes, Bader quite clearly represents a better Plan B.

Look, I can't help how they pinch hit. That's an issue whether it's Bader or Kiersey or Martin. So I'm not sure how that applies as a criticism of Bader. As for CF - he should be starting in CF anytime Buxton isn't. That's basically the main reason he has a role on this team. (And why I think the signing was right) We don't have any other legitimate major league centerfielders, certainly not any that are good at playing it. As for how many ABs...I don't know. Unfortunately, his defense I think buys him a lot of time until they can either acquire a replacement or one magically springs up out of the farm. (Which...I don't know about you...but do you see a guy who can do that? I don't.) My issue with this is people are misdirecting their anger I think. They're mad we don't have better, younger, cheaper options. Totally fair complaint. But....the FO would be fools to roll into the season with Byron Brittle Buxton in CF and no capable defensive backup. That or they're mad at the way the team substitutes. Also legit...I share that. Bader or not...they're doing it. So at least with Bader we have a guy with some history of hitting LHP and brings a known quantity in his glove. So I guess that's where I'm at....it seems like misdirected frustration leading to less than fair arguments.

With all due respect, and I appreciate your post, but this only furthers my point: you've defined the terms of the discussion in a way that doesn't allow for any meaningful discussion. The FO has to evaluate what they project the season to produce and where their roster needs to be supplemented. Your desire that they have an ever ready supply of AAA players to do this is grand and wonderful, but not realistic. Rendering the discussion down to a bunch of what-ifs only makes continuing it a pointless exercise.