Riverbrian

You are correct. All anyone has to do is look at the demographics of those still with cable. Mostly older folks. Cable isn't reaching younger demographics because they have already cut the cord... and surprise surprise... as a result... baseball demographics look a lot the cable audiences. Mostly older folks. Makes perfect sense that both demo's are similar since cable is the sole vehicle utilized to deliver their product to the masses. Hey lookie here... Cable and Baseball have the same demo's... how did that happen? Those who have a young family to bring to the game RIGHT NOW they have no idea what channel 623 is. Baseball marketing shouldn't be targeting the same folks the marketing teams for medication, hearing aids and bathroom grab bars are trying to reach if they want to have a decent sized audience in 15 years.

Margot 0 for 30 as a pinch hitter kinda shoots a hole in the value of the data alone approach.

Agreed. I don't have answers on how but I do I believe that... for the sake of overall interest in the sport, for the demographic health of the game and therefore the future of the game. In the end... sooner rather than later (It's already Later). The Twins need to be accessible beyond the regional demographics of cable. They need to be everywhere everybody is and then they need to figure out how to monetize it. Even if they have to figure out the money part afterwards. However... It's hard to point directly at something like the Padres model without knowing what kind of revenue it is currently producing or could produce going forward. With that said... Hindsight clearly says that the going back to Diamond/Bally was a big mistake because selling exclusive rights to a company that can't provide the product to YOUR consumers is BAD.

This one year deal with Diamond/Bally that they signed. There has been speculation that the number agreed to was in the upper 40 millions. To my knowledge the number was undisclosed. Absent that information I still have a question that I don't know the answer to. Did Diamond/Bally bid against themselves? What drove the price up to 48 million or whatever it was. If nobody is willing to give the Twins 35 Million for broadcast rights for example. Why would Diamond Pay 48 million or (insert correct number here)? In order for money to get to where it got. Something had to compete for it? I ask this question because ultimately... I am still pissed that I couldn't watch the Twins for a good chunk of the summer and didn't like being told that it couldn't be helped. And... on the subject of not being able to watch the Twins. I went for walks. I watched Netflix instead. I was a little less of a Twins fan as a result. I can see this having an effect on attendance. It's entertainment... if you force people to find other entertainment... they will. I was forced to.

Sounds like they have already appointed Buster Posey. Pulled Buster out of a board of directors chair... which is interesting because the board of directors are 6 individuals who have most likely made Farhan Zaidi squirm for the past 6 years. Now Posey can feel the heat he once provided. I'm going to guess that the Giants will go a completely different direction under Posey since the other direction required a change. If the job was still open and the search on going. Lavine replacing Zaidi would be like Mary Kate Olsen replacing Ashley. The Twins and Giants have been very similar in approach. The Giants having much more money available being the primary difference. Lavine would have to convince the Giants in the interview that it's a good thing that he did the same thing in Minnesota because it didn't work here either.

Which owners are part of the community? Which owners are bucking the trend?

I'm not going to spend any time worrying about this sort of thing. The team collapsed and now we have players in their 20's trying to explain, process, deal with it in the public eye. Some fingers got pointed which isn't surprising since both Correa and Lewis tend to speak a little more free than they probably should and the collapse was... well... enormous. Could you imagine being asked to explain what happened to the press... a collapse that was off the charts in size while the press is going to reduce whatever you say to a soundbite. I don't know for answer to the question won't suffice and a soundbite isn't going to cover it.

No worries here. The radio network would remain intact. The flagship station is what would change.

Thanks John, This projection is a great starting point when it comes to what the front office has to do to get ready for 2024. I don't really see middle ground here. The off-season looks to be either chaotic with lots of player movement or mundane with very little player movement. The first thing you have to do with your list is drop them into the proper buckets based on how the Twins have executed over the past two seasons. Assuming health of course... which should never be assumed. Starting Pitching: You have probably named the starting 5. Starting pitching needs to go beyond 5. We will have Festa, Zebby, Maya (Will need to be added to the 40 man) and Morris (could be our Festa next year) as additional depth. Along with Headrick and Canterino and whoever rises from the system that nobody is talking about right now... just like Zebby did. The Starting pitching may not have the top end guy we want... but there is depth here. Bullpen: Assuming that Topa has some skill. There are 7 arms in the bullpen that I like. Duran, Jax, Stewart, Varland, Sands, Alcala and Topa. One Problem... they are all right handed. This organization can't ignore the need for left hander pitchers vs left handed batters after placing so much focus on their left hander hitters facing left handed pitchers. So Funderburk is possibly one. Is Moran still a consideration? I think they need someone bigger and better here. Bullpen arms don't break the bank like a starting pitcher will. I'd love to see them grab Tanner Scott who is the top of the pile left hander in free agency next year in my opinion. If they can't land Tanner Scott... they need to look at the #2 portsider and so on. Shop top of the pile. With those 7... two lefties should take up the two bullpen roster spots which can crowd a talented Alcala down to AAA. Duran, Scott and Jax make a nice top three with Stewart, Varland, Sands, Alcala, Topa and Funderburk taking the other 6 out of the other 5 spots. This would be what I call bullpen serious and it could rival what Cleveland has right now. Alcala has options so he could start the year in AAA. Offense: This is where it gets tricky... you have to drop them all into the proper buckets to see it. I have no reason to believe that the Twins will stop with the extreme platoon splits. Start with 13 players Catcher Bucket: Jeffers and Vazquez 11 roster spots left Multi Position Guy Willi Castro - Led the team in AB"s this year. That's a problem. He needs to return to this role even though he will probably lead the team in AB"s again out of that role. He doesn't really fit into the platoon thing because his career splits are close to even and his 2024 splits suggest he is best against Right handers. 10 Roster spots left Left Handed hitters who won't face left handed pitching Wallner, Larnach and Julien 7 Roster spots left Right handed hitters who will face the left handed pitching because the left handed hitters won't. They may have to use Jeffers in this role in addition to his catching duties. So ou will need 2 of them to cover Wallner, Larnach and Julien. Two will have to play OF. Jeffers paired with Julien at DH. Martin paired with Larnach in LF ??? paired with Wallner in RF I don't like taking a young player like Martin and making him a short sider but if they are committed to protecting the left handers. They will have to and this really sucks for Martin. In addition they will find the Margot Replacement. If you are happy Margot is gone... rest assured... that another Margot will arrive on a cheapish 1 year deal. Someone like Refsnyder is what we are talking about. Pillar maybe for the CF utilization. Maybe a Merrifield to play multiple positions even though his splits don't work. Someone is replacing Margot. 5 Roster Spots left The Power 5 - The close to everyday guys... You can only really platoon 3 spots from each side for a total of 6... So 5 will have to play close to every day. They will be the power 5. Correa - SS Lewis - 3B Buxton - CF Lee - 2B Miranda - 1B In my opinion... this is where the problem lies. I believe the platooning they do is a problem but I don't think they will change. So these 5 is where the problem is going to rear it's head. I have no expectation that Correa, Lewis and Buxton will remain healthy for 162 games. We don't know what Lee will contribute. I like Miranda but, he faded hard at the end and I'm not sure he belongs in the power 5. When Correa, Buxton and Lewis get hurt. Someone has to rise up and replace them in the everyday 5. Castro will probably be the first power 5 replacement. After Castro... look at the choices and keep in mind that they won't use the left handed hitters for full time duty. that leaves you with Martin and the Margot replacement after Castro for full time duty when these guys get hurt or don't pan out. Our offensive hopes and dreams will be placed on the shoulders of the power 5. Meaning we need health from the typically unhealthy and we need solid numbers from a couple of players who haven't provided solid numbers yet.

I have my issues with the way the Twins handle some things. In-Game, Big Picture process stuff. I hear you but... there must have been some Rocco decisions that resulted in Wins. If Rocco would have made the move you or I wanted? Would the team have won the game? Still lost the game? Then the question that needs to be asked is. What about the other managers across the league. Have they made decisions that resulted in losses? Is Rocco making more bad decisions than the others? I don't know the answer to that? And the next question... if another manager was in the same situation... Would they have made a different decision than Rocco did whoever that manager is. Is there a Wins above replacement for manager? A plus/minus stat for Managers? How do we compare them to their peers? If you say that they Alcala was left in too long against the Rangers? OK... maybe but would another manager have handled it different in the same context? I don't know the answer to any of these questions.

I'm with ya. If people want to focus on how many he lost through manager decision? My first question... How do you know that the game was lost through manager decision. If you are able to confidently say that he lost games through manager decision? How many did he win through Manager decision. Must have been one or two? I don't know. How many did Quartaro Win through manager decision? How many did he lose? Same thing for Hinch? and the other 27 managers in the game. Anybody got a plus/minus on Rocco? or a plus/minus on the other 29 managers? I certainly don't.

Yes it was. I have tossed the previous disappointments aside and moved on with life. This wound hasn't healed yet. I'll be fine by the time spring training rolls around. Tomorrow is always a new day.

Jair Camargo was up for 10 games April 13 to April 22. He was called back up to the majors on July 12 and sent back down on July 25 for a total of 8 games. He was in a major league uniform for a total of 3 more games in September for a grand total of 21 games. 7 Plate Appearances total for Jair over 21 games. Someone or someone's in our evaluation system felt that Camargo could not do better than the numbers produced by Christian Vazquez. Someone felt he would hurt our chances of winning games if he played rather than Vazquez. .221/.248/.327. were the numbers produced by Christian Vazquez. .243/,312/.399 is major league average for 2024. Meanwhile, at the very same time. The same evaluators or a different evaluator in the same system has determined that Jair Camargo gets and keeps a 40 man roster spot. Camargo is protected in the off-season when the 40 man decisions are hard to make and keeps the roster spot over the course of the season surviving all the 40 man additions, with the help of 60 day I.L. maneuvering. He keeps his roster spot all season. Evaluations are hard. The Margins are tight. I doubt that the Twins had Julien evaluated at .615 OPS because they cleared space and made room for him at 2B. I doubt that the Twins or the Mariners had Polanco evaluated at .651 They probably missed by quite a bit on those two. Yet... very confidently... they can evaluate that Vazquez can't yield time and that Camargo can't see the field. Yet... can't take him off the 40 man. I'd also would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when the Twins and Reds were discussing the Mahle deal with their evaluations. Was Miranda part of the discussion? Did the Twins evaluators evaluate Miranda as untouchable but Steer not? Did the Reds evaluators determine that they wanted Steer or Strand over Miranda. Maybe Strand was the lead dog in the deal. What Reds evaluator determined that Steer or Strand wasn't enough so Strand or Steer had to be included. What Twins evaluator agreed that Steer or Strand wasn't enough. Through 1,000 AB's... Steer is leading Miranda and when I say that... don't get me wrong. I like Miranda. Glad he's a Twin.

Festa and Matthews are a little misleading. Matthews had two bad starts and one of those was real bad that inflated his number. So did Festa. Part of the problem was that Rocco would not allow those two to actually eat innings. He always had the quick hook for them... Which exposed the Bullpen depth. So Yeah... I agree with you but in the end... Naw... I'll go with the Rookies and get bullpen serious at the deadline.

Look for Italian Restaurants specifically. They must have an Olive Garden somewhere.

Quite possible.

It would really bad form to publicly state anything about ownership. I agree on AJ Puk. Puk and Tanner Scott were my #1 and #2 trade deadline hopes. We had a problem from the left side of the pen that was apparent at the trade deadline. I also wanted a bat... A big one. And a starter but I just didn't think that was going to happen. I was worried about an innings eater and that I didn't want.

One more point on the trade deadline constraints... if they are indeed restrained. If there is a financial constraint in place and we all assume there is one... based on the comments of Joe Pohlad alone, it's a fair assumption. If there is a financial constraint in place. We should have left cushion for trade deadline needs. I'll go back to the Polanco trade. When the season was done... I questioned spending the Polanco money on Santana and Margot. Forget hindsight because Santana ended up being a good replacement for Polanco because he was based on 2024 stats. Go back to time of the trade when nobody really knew what Santana would do. If sitting at the deadline was due to financial constraints. They shouldn't have spent the Polanco money therefore putting themselves up against the cap, line... whatever that number is. Why would you take away your room to maneuver not knowing what you will need when the time comes? No matter what any of us think of the job Falvey and Lavine are doing (I personally like them). None of us should assume that they are not aware of their budget constraints at all times. To assume they are not aware would suggest a level of organizational ineptness that simply isn't realistic. The only thing that makes sense to me is they were over budget after signing Correa and they knew when they signed him that belt tightening was going to come. Then the TV money went away and the belt would need to be tightened another notch. I highly doubt that they were surprised... but I highly suspect that they were disappointed. I don't want to assume to much on the retention side of things. No matter what though. MLB GM's are professionals... Nearly every team has a budget to adhere to. Maybe not the Dodgers or Mets but every one else. MLB GM's have to know that budgets can be fluid... it may be tough this year and the next but it's fluid and budget space will return with room to maneuver. The key question for the front office. If the Twins go into a down period because of constraints. Will the job offers with higher budget clubs go away when the results on the field are down? Will the Twins ownership hold them accountable for a down years? If the answer is yes to both of those questions. It just might be in their best interest to take the Blue Jays job or the Giants job if they call.

On the retention side of thing. I have a thought that has stuck with me. It might mean something... it may not but here's my thought anyway. Two trade deadlines in a row that they didn't do anything with a team in contention both years. I don't believe that is how Falvey and Lavine do things. Something is up. Terry Ryan used to sit out trade deadlines. I was used to that. But, when Falvey and Lavine came to town... they were a breath of fresh air because they were dealing at the deadline... either buying or selling. Some of the deals didn't work out... some did but they were dealing including buying and selling in the same year with Jaime Garcia. 2017 (On the edge of contention): Traded for Jaime Garcia - Traded Away Murphy, Jaime Garcia and Kintzler. 2018: (Out of contention) Traded Away Pressly, Duke Lynn, Dozier and Rodney 2019: (In contention) Traded for Romo and Dyson 2020: (In contention) Did nothing - Weird Year with Covid 2021: (Out of Contention) Traded away Cruz, Berrios, Happ and Robles 2022: (In contention) Traded for Mahle, Jorge Lopez and Fulmer. 2023: (In Contention) Nothing 2024: (In Contention) Nothing - I'm not counting Richards as anything. Other than 2020... These guys have been active at the trade deadline. Two years in a row they haven't been. What does that say. I don't know. They are either scared off from the 2022 nightmare of results (I doubt that) or they are being restrained by something. So my nagging retention thought is: If restrained... This isn't what they do. They have shown us what they do at the deadline. They can't be comfortable in restraints.

The Orioles started their primary lineup. The primary lineup includes 4 left handers and two switches. The two switch hitters: Santander was decently balanced this year but is stronger by a bit against right handers. Rutschman is career balanced but overwhelmingly stronger against left handers this year. When Thielbar entered the game in the sixth... the bases were loaded with the lefty Henderson at the plate. Rocco left Thielbar in the 7th to face Right, Santander, Left. It was the lefty Cowser who tattooed him. That part of the lineup made sense for a lefty. When Funderburk entered the game in the 8th. I honestly have no idea why? It wasn't a good split matchup. Lefty O'Hearn, Followed by Right left Right. O'Hearn is a DH and has been platooned all year. He was going to be pinch hit for. You could have bet your children on it. Which means Funderburk faces Right, Right, Left, Right. After giving up 4 straight singles. Here come those left handers at the top of the order so... I guess he stays in. Varland would have made more sense in the 8th unless Rocco was just plain scared of Ryan O' Hearn remaining in the game. Anyway... Just my post game autopsy on the bullpen which was pretty beat up going into the game. If we need left handed pitching to face left handed pitching. We sure could have used an upgrade at the deadline and I'll just leave it at that. Bullpen aside. The real story... As I watched the game... I kept saying to myself. Povich is shutting us completely down. Povich shouldn't be shutting anyone down but... with our hitters he hung zeros as he lowered his ERA from 5.59 to 5.20. Our offense was not helpful in the 9th month of 2024. Uff Da

I think this is actually a Levine discussion but who really knows... other than the folks inside the walls. You raise excellent points. 1 - I'm pretty sure that every major league team is using data. I believe that all 30 teams are working with the same information. What I think sets teams apart is how they weight certain data amongst all of the data collected. I'm pretty sure that certain teams will place more emphasis on something and less on other data points, therefore different approaches from team to team. It seems clear to me that the Twins have placed more emphasis on the left vs left data than other teams do. No team takes it to this level other than the Rays. Maybe the Giants. This aggressive platooning has been consistent behavior since the young left handed hitters arrived last year. I don't argue the splits and what they say. The challenges that left handers face against left handed pitchers is historically true and there for all to see. The Twins have been playing the long game with this strategy through thick and thin. The Problem is: A. They have chosen to fortify against 25% of MLB Pitchers and have placed basically none or at least certainly less emphasis against the 75% of pitchers. No matter what the numbers say in regards to left vs left. It is wrong to place your primary emphasis on the 25%. Focus on the big side if you must and take your lumps against the the small side. That's playing the percentages. B. Injuries or poor play will not allow them to stay consistent with this strategy. They want to play the long game and you need to play the long game with numbers but the context is constantly changing over the course of 162 games due to injuries and unexpected poor play. Injuries are bad enough, they are worse when you are tied to a strategy that basically requires health and players meeting expectation to work. The Margot or Farmer types that are necessary to make the system work from the short side... are pressed into more service than simple short side activity and end up consistently facing more right handers than left handers. THIS NEGATES THE ADVANTAGE because the reason they are short siders is because they have bad splits against right handed pitching. That's why they are short siders in the first place. If they didn't... they would play every day. So... they end up playing close to every day. C. Roster size has limitations. If you have 3 Left Handed Hitters to keep away from left handed pitchers on the roster. You need 3 right handed hitters to play against the left handed pitching. You have to commit 6 out of 13 roster spots to the system. After you add the two catchers... you have 5 spots left for the Buxton, Correa's and Lewis... Who incidentally have had a real hard time staying healthy through the season. In regards to roster size limitations... Does the system actually limit the number of left handed batters you can employ? The way they utilize it... it sure seems to. Can they roster Jenkins, Erod, Larnach, Julien, Kirilloff and Wallner on the same roster? Do they have to jettison excess left handers because they can only staff 3 (4 at most) right handers to pair with them to continue sheltering them? D. Development. WE ARE NOT SPENDING MONEY IN FREE AGENCY... Pete Alonso is not coming. The Development of Jenkins, Erod, Larnach, Julien, Kirilloff and Wallner is critical. Development means developing against left handed pitching as well. I'm not talking about absorbing a .400 OPS... I'm talking about giving a guy a chance to get more comfortable and maybe raise that OPS to .600 to .700 OPS with more confidence and exposure. Then you can staff more left handers who are hitting .900 to 1,000 OPS against right handed pitching. There are teams that are doing very well with 6, 7 or 8 left handers on the roster. E. I don't want to sign Margot or the Margot equivalent every damn year just to keep the system in tact. You will have to... or else... you will have to commit young players Like Miranda and Martin to the short side. F. The same set of data that they are looking at also contains a pinch hitting statistical drop off that they have to absorb in order to not absorb the lefty vs lefty statistical drop off. You are absorbing **** either way. G. Wallner might be needed to come up big against Josh Hader in the 9th inning in the playoffs because the Astros started Framber Valdez and Wallner entered the game in the 6th pinch hitting when Pressly was brought in. OK enough on that. I have H, I and J as well and very few made it to B. 2. This could be the canary in the coalmine. If they depart for another club like Sterns and Counsell departed the Brewers for the Mets/Cubs for example. It's an indication that the constraints are prohibitive. Don't know if the rumors were true but Falvey and Lavine have reportedly turned down big money clubs to stay. We don't know what is happening in regards to office politics but if they are consistently constrained. It would be a smart career move to jump ship. We will see what happens this off-season. 3. I like what is happening down on the farm. I would keep them in doing what they are doing based on the farm alone. On the other hand... I think they are hurting development at the major league level with the platooning. Ultimately... If I ever pull my support for this front office... it will because of development. I like what's coming... I'm scared to death to what happens when they arrive. I am not afraid of youth... Young Teams are in the playoffs this year. I'm scared of Margot. If they screw up development... We are screwed. This collapse... Could be simply sequencing. We had a bad stretch as the clock expired. Bad ASS timing. There is so much possible complication with what happened. Good luck to the front office sorting it out.

59 Years old with a full head of hair and no receding hair lines. These young girls won't let me be. Poor Poor Pitiful me.

There are times when I scratch my head with Rocco. There are times when I scratch my head with the front office. There are times when I scratch my head with perceptions I may have acquired about ownership. There are times when posters on this site make me scratch my head. After all the head scratching... I've concluded that perhaps others don't think like me.

First of all... I'm not blaming the fans. I'm saying I'm not so sure that not attending games in protest is going to bring about the change that they all feel is necessary because it can go down further. Twins payroll is not rock bottom. 2nd of all... I don't know anything about the financials. It's not released to the public and even if it was... I'm not sure that I'm going to look at the price of hot dogs and come up with proof that the money isn't managed correctly. 3rd of all... The Twins have consistently spent in a range... I expect them to spend in that range. 4th of all... I'm no longer concerned about how much money is spent... I'm concerned about who they spend it on. 5th of all... Fan Attendance. I'd suggest better marketing. You are trying to move large numbers. Winning helps but the Twins were a winning team until Mid-August so that didn't seem to help.