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    Twins Waiting, Watching (And Wanting)


    John  Bonnes

    “Don’t wait for it to happen. Don’t even want it to happen. Just watch what does happen.”

    - Sean Connery as Jim Malone in The Untouchables

    The Twins schedule has necessitated keeping the clubhouse pretty crowded so far in spring training. But even if the schedule cooperates there are enough questions still unanswered that a padded roster would make sense.

    Image courtesy of Jonathan Dyer-USA TODAY Sports

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    About the only question that seems to be answered is who the starting shortstop will be. Manager Paul Molitor says he still wants the competition between Danny Santana and Eduardo Escobar to play out, but all indications are that it will be Santana. Escobar has continued to hit well, but so has Santana and the Twins want his athleticism in the lineup. Furthermore, Molitor says he hasn’t considered moving Santana back to center field.

    This brings up the other positional battle that was supposed to sort itself out this spring. It hasn’t. “I don’t think anybody has really separated from the pack. We’ve got time to sort it out. I think it’s safe to say it’s wide open,” Terry Ryan summarized before today’s game. Molitor was even more blunt when asked if he had a better feel about what he was going to do about center field. “No,” he simply replied.

    The Twins keep giving the four candidates opportunities. Each has found himself starting in center field at least once over the last four days. Eddie Rosario started there on Thursday, but was relegated to corner spots Saturday and Sunday while Shane Robinson and Jordan Schafer got the starts in center. Hicks also received two starts, one on Friday and one on Saturday.

    Entering today, the one with the highest batting average was Robinson at .269 – but his career average in the majors is just .231 and he’s 30 years old. The fact that he’s still even in camp tells you all you need to know about the rest of the candidates.

    Of course, there are a lot of guys in camp, and that has something to do with the schedule. The Twins had a split-squad on Saturday and have three-hour bus drives on Sunday and Monday. Generally, those long trips have a minimal veteran presence, so it’s not too surprising that the Twins are keeping some warm bodies around.

    An extra body or two might be necessary for the final roster, too. One option the Twins have at least considered for center field is a platoon, but it doesn’t sound like they’re too excited about it. “That’s not ideal,” says Ryan. He added, “But if you have to, you have to.”

    If the Twins have to, they could try a platoon a couple of different ways. Half of the platoon could be Jordan Schafer, who bats left-handed and has a career on-base percentage of .328 against right-handers. I supposed it could also be Eddie Rosario, who also bats left-handed, but I presume the Twins would rather he play every day in the minors.

    The other side is more problematic. Robinson hits right-handed, though his performance against any pitcher with hands has been pretty anemic in the majors. But he would be the short side of the platoon and could also serve as a defensive late-inning specialist in either of the corners.

    Or the Twins could try Hicks, who is a switch-hitter but has really only hit southpaws. (And he has hit them well; he has a 758 OPS over 127 at-bats in his career.) But again, unless the Twins want him to acclimate himself to the majors or want Torii Hunter to mentor him, he would probably be better off playing every day in Rochester.

    The Twins also still have a question as to who will be their fifth starter, courtesy of Trevor Mays’ excellent outing yesterday. “I was impressed,” Ryan reflected today. “As was everybody that saw that.” But Ryan wasn’t sure what was in store for Mays, or even if he would have another start scheduled for this spring.

    If the Twins want to see more of him, they’re going to need to make a decision fairly soon since both May’s and Tommy Milone’s next turn in the rotation will be Thursday, and there is no split squad this time to help them out. Only one can get that start at JetBlue Park and whoever it is will need to be further stretched to close to 80 pitches. But of course, Mike Pelfrey is also in the discussion. Wait. Watch.

    Finally, a new question was raised, courtesy of Adam Jones' bat. Jones hit catcher Josmil Pinto in the head three times in one at-bat on his backswing and the backstop then came out of yesterday’s game. Molitor characterized Pinto as “dizzy” and Ryan used the term “groggy”, and today Pinto didn’t feel quite right. Ryan labeled the injury as “concussion-like symptoms” but said the CT scan was negative and they would need to wait a few days before they officially diagnosed it as a concussion.

    Either way, Pinto will be held out of baseball-related activities for a few days, which could open up the backup catcher roster spot for Chris Herrmann or Eric Fryer. More waiting and watching.

    The Twins would like to spend the last week playing their regulars, which really only gives them another week to make some final decisions. Molitor, Ryan and staff met for a 40-minute meeting yesterday to talk about how the roster might take shape. “We’re going to keep gathering information in the near term before we finalize what we want to do,” said Molitor.

    So there is still a little time left to wait. And to want. And to see what does happen. Both for their Twins and their fans.

    Twins 5, Marlins 3

    The Twins beat the Marlins in Jupiter on Sunday, fueled by a potent top of the lineup.

    • Phil Hughes started, went 4.2 innings, gave up three runs, walked two, struck out four, and then gave such an insightful and entertaining postgame interview that I may need to write it up word for word later this week.
    • Tim Stauffer relieved Hughes in the fifth and ended the inning with one pitch. He gave up a couple of hits but no runs the next inning.
    • Caleb Thielbar threw a couple of innings, got two strikeouts but walked one. Molitor was impressed with the depth of his curveball.
    • Casey Fien closed it out.

    On the offensive side:

    • Danny Santana led off, went 4-5 and darn near beat out the ground ball on which he was thrown out.
    • Jordan Schafer hit second and had three hits with two RBI. Yes, mostly it was against right-handed pitchers, but he got a hit against southpaw swingman Brad Hand in the 8th.
    • Eddie Rosario went 1-5, but hit the ball well.
    • Trevor Plouffe also got a couple of hits and a walk, raising his batting average this spring to .200. He also was moved from third to first base late in the game. Molitor said he made that move to give Plouffe some experience over there.

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    I don't think moving Ploufe from third to first means Vargas is gone but that they don't feel Vargas has good enough defense at first. Moving Ploufe also could give more opportunities to Escobar or Nunez as they can play third. sounds more like contingency planning to me as Mauer should be at first almost 100 percent of the time anyway.

    Don't you have to plan for the 40 to 50 games that Mauer will be out because of injuries?

        :roll:     :roll:   :roll:  

    Edited by h2oface

    There is a weird attitude up in here if Shane Robinson is considered a major leaguer and a prospect like Hicks doesn't get the now appropriate chance. es.

    Hicks has had two lengthy chances which have resulted in historic awfulness. I'm no fan of Robinson, but it bothers me Hicks keeps getting gifted something he has repeatedly proven unready for.

     

    The real stupidity lies in the crummy options we chose to come to camp with, but I am beyond confused as yo what Hicks has done to entitle himself to so many chances.

    It isn't clear to me why I have to say this for the 7th or so time. 

     

    Look at Hicks' minor league development. Ok, *nothing* warranted a move to MLB in 2013. It was stupid, especially as a leadoff man. He should have spent 2013 between AA and AAA. 2014 would have been his AAA/MLB taste on a normal schedule for him. If this were the case, his 2013 numbers might be about .760 OPS and his 2014 numbers in AAA at least post .700. If one thinks of his 2014 time in the majors as his true first time in the majors, then it is not that egregious of an output. He just has to make more contact and increase his slugging. These are improvable skills. 

     

    Schaffer and Robinson as what? Improvements for a *rebuilding* team? What kind of craziness allows for this to be reasonable on any level? 

     

    I know of one. What else? And is that the kind of thing that is really going to mean a roster decision favoring the likes of Shane Robinson? haha!

     

    The fact is, it's a Hobson's Choice, no matter which direction the Twins choose to take.   I can see the logic of going with the two veterans for 30-60 days (and the likely below league-average offensive performance) to see if a stint in AAA helps Hicks improve from both sides of the plate.    At this point, however, we have two years worth of major league data, that Hicks, at best, projects as a platoon OFer.    And based on the latest quotes, the Twins don't want to go the platoon route if they don't have to do so.    Which leaves... what?

    Edited by jokin

    Schaffer and Robinson as what? Improvements for a *rebuilding* team? What kind of craziness allows for this to be reasonable on any level?

    The craziness of not wanting to give up on Hicks. To want to give him a few months in AAA to prove readiness. I really worry Hicks coming north is a career death sentence.

     

    There is a weird attitude up in here if Shane Robinson is considered a major leaguer and a prospect like Hicks doesn't get the now appropriate chance. 

     

    Hicks should be in CF and May should be the 5th starter. 

    Hopefully the bullpen can have some gas tossers. Without Oliveros and Tonkin, though, yikes.

    While I am in agreement with you on center and the 5th starter, I think Shane Robinson deserves to be considered a major leaguer. He has always been a fine sub/replacement player in his time with the Cardinals, and he hit .429 (3/7) in 3 games (2 as a pinch hitter and a start in game 6) in the 2013 NLCS. He hit a Major League pinch-hit solo homer against the Dodgers (Howell) in the 7th inning of game 4 for an insurance run and a 4-2 lead and the final scoring, and had two singles off Kershaw in his first two at bats in the clinching game 6, tagging Kershaw with the bases loaded and two outs for a couple more RBI in the third. He may not be the answer for the Twins in center, but he should definitely be considered a major leaguer. 

    I feel the bullpen will be a major problem until they get some help, hopefully from Burdi and Reed.

     

    re: Centerfield and 5th SP battles.  I think that the Twins are in a position to bundle someone like Milone and someone like Hughes and another prospects and see whether they can get a major league centerfielder for a season or three, until Buxton gets ready...

    Why not just trade Meyer for a centerfielder? The Twins don't want to promote him anyway. I hear he can be traded for a pretty fine center fielder.

     

    And, uh oh, Shane getting wound up . . . 

     

    I read in the game thread for yesterday's game that Hicks clearly misplayed a ball in the second inning allowing an extra base. I dare anyone to watch that again and say the same dumb thing. That ball was clearly by him. Good god.

     

    Yesterday I was about 70 feet from where that ball landed.  It landed about a foot and a half ahead of his foot.  The major problem with that was that he was playing too shallow.  The good old days Liddle used to position OFs; if that is Vavra's job now, shoot me.   But that was the major issue with that play. 

     

    Wait, what? 

    What is the fascination with CF? There should be none. The 2016 and on answer is solved. Aaron Hicks clearly works until then. Everything else is just stupid. It's just stupid.

     

    So you think that Buxton will be hitting breaking balls by 2016?  I still am not sure about that...  Got to see to believe.

    Don't you have to plan for the 40 to 50 games that Mauer will be out because of injuries?

        :roll:     :roll:   :roll:

     

    Yeah I guess I forget how fragile he is. Near 100 percent probably wasn't a good statement there. My main point was that it didn't necesarily spell Vargas's doom.

     

    Granted Vargas might be out be out if they are going with multiple,outfielders and DH Arcia, Mauer, Hunter etc. maybe then there isn't room for Vargas. Hard to say for sure.

     

    Yeah I guess I forget how fragile he is. Near 100 percent probably wasn't a good statement there. My main point was that it didn't necesarily spell Vargas's doom.

    Granted Vargas might be out be out if they are going with multiple,outfielders and DH Arcia, Mauer, Hunter etc. maybe then there isn't room for Vargas. Hard to say for sure.

     

    I too hope this is not the case, but fear the worst.

     

    Yesterday I was about 70 feet from where that ball landed.  It landed about a foot and a half ahead of his foot.  The major problem with that was that he was playing too shallow.  The good old days Liddle used to position OFs; if that is Vavra's job now, shoot me.   But that was the major issue with that play. 

     

    Wait we are talking about the same ball in the second inning, right? Because your characterization is flat-out false. I watched it several times. It landed several feet beyond and away from him. 

    I am alarmed by this. you weren't the original poster about this in the game thread, obviously.

     

     A platoon plan for CF may not be ideal, but we are waiting for Buxton - Hicks, Schaefer, et al are not the answer long term but there is no reason a CF platoon can't work in 2015.  Or in RF or LF for that matter - get Rosario up here and let him play! Casey Stengel (Yankees) and Gil Hodges won World Series' by platooning players.  If Hicks can figure it out from both sides of the plate, great.  If not, platoon!  Don't know why this is a dirty word.

    So did Tom Kelly (Pags and Leus) I thought a platoon has made sense the last couple years with Hicks and Pressley or Pressley/Mastro. It certainly does again.

    I was at the game and thought Hicks took a poor route for the ball in question. I didn't see his jump, but he has disappointed in the past.

     

    As for Plouffe playing first, it could make it easier to promote Sano in the event any corner infielder injury (plus Vargas).

     

    My best guess is that Pinto ends up on the concussion DL. Herrmann could win the backup job and delay the competition between Rosario and Herrmann.

    Why not just trade Meyer for a centerfielder? The Twins don't want to promote him anyway. I hear he can be traded for a pretty fine center fielder.

    actually Ryan's original quote in 2012 was something like "you just can't get a pitcher of Meyer's quality for as cheap as a starting center fielder in his prime, unless the pitcher is still in A ball"

     

    So there's that :)

    It isn't clear to me why I have to say this for the 7th or so time. 

     

    Look at Hicks' minor league development. Ok, *nothing* warranted a move to MLB in 2013. It was stupid, especially as a leadoff man. He should have spent 2013 between AA and AAA. 2014 would have been his AAA/MLB taste on a normal schedule for him. If this were the case, his 2013 numbers might be about .760 OPS and his 2014 numbers in AAA at least post .700. If one thinks of his 2014 time in the majors as his true first time in the majors, then it is not that egregious of an output. He just has to make more contact and increase his slugging. These are improvable skills. 

     

    Schaffer and Robinson as what? Improvements for a *rebuilding* team? What kind of craziness allows for this to be reasonable on any level?

    this is how it should have happened, but it didn't. 2014 wasn't his first season in the majors, it was his second. His hitting was aweful but can be improved. His fielding was awful that can be improved too. So you have a prospect who is an awful hitter and poor fielder(-10.9 UZR per Fangraphs) on the big league club. That's doing him and the club a huge favor. Are Robinson/Schaffer batter? Maybe fielding wise, but if they struggle, who cares they aren't prospects. All of Hicks' issues might be fixable but is the big leagues the place to do it?

     

    Plouffe working at first base makes me think that Vargas will not come north.

     

    FWIW, I don't think that is the case. I think they were just giving Plouffe some experience there in case he needs to move there during the season. (I think it's much more likely that Molitor is thinking ahead to what his options might eventually be if Sano is promoted. )

     

    I was at the game and thought Hicks took a poor route for the ball in question. I didn't see his jump, but he has disappointed in the past.

    .....

     

    My best guess is that Pinto ends up on the concussion DL. Herrmann could win the backup job and delay the competition between Rosario and Herrmann.

     

    If you're talking about Friday's game, Molitor didn't have any problem with Hicks' actions on that ball. He would have liked him to catch it, but said he did what he was supposed to do but just didn't get it.

     

    Terry Ryan said today that if this was the regular season, Pinto would have been put on the DL. Since it is not, and they have time, they're going to see what happens. They don't need to put anyone on the DL for two weeks, I don't think, so which DL he might go on is kind of moot. And he may not go onto one at all.

     

    One thing I didn't mention is that Ryan said he saw Pinto this morning and was very encouraged by his condition.

    Thanks John. From my point of view, Hicks pursued the ball laterally, and the ball landed beside him. My high school coach once said if you are running directly behind a ball to the fence, you've taken the wrong route. At the time, I thought it cost a base. Maybe my viewing angle was wrong.

    On Pinto, is there not a competition for the backup catcher position? If Pinto is out 4-5 days, it has to hurt his chance to go north with the team, probably unfairly. We all have seen concussion symptoms linger, so I don't think it's out of the realm that Pinto gets disabled retroactively, rehabs with Rochester to catch up for missed time a d returns to the Twins awhile after the season starts.

    FWIW, I don't think that is the case. I think they were just giving Plouffe some experience there in case he needs to move there during the season. (I think it's much more likely that Molitor is thinking ahead to what his options might eventually be if Sano is promoted. )

    The thought had occurred to me, but the question that raises is how a Sano promotion would open up playing time at first with Mauer entrenched there.

    Wait, what?

     

    What is the fascination with CF? There should be none. The 2016 and on answer is solved. Aaron Hicks clearly works until then. Everything else is just stupid. It's just stupid.

    I'd rather not waste another season at the position, as we already wasted one, arguably two. And if Buxton hits another stumbling block again this year, wasting 2015 makes it more likely you will be wasting the spot again in 2016.

     

    No one is suggesting a megatrade or huge FA signing. And whatever decent solution you find for CF could still have value post-Buxton, in a corner or by trade (kinda the value we all still hope Hicks achieves).

    I'd rather not waste another season at the position, as we already wasted one, arguably two. And if Buxton hits another stumbling block again this year, wasting 2015 makes it more likely you will be wasting the spot again in 2016.

    No one is suggesting a megatrade or huge FA signing. And whatever decent solution you find for CF could still have value post-Buxton, in a corner or by trade (kinda the value we all still hope Hicks achieves).

    I'm still holding out hope Hicks turns into a decent solution. With value post-Buxton.

     

    Admittedly, that flame of hope is flickering badly, but it's still there. At the very least if the season is wasted I'd rather it be wasted on Hicks than other current Twins options.




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