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    Oswaldo Arcia And The Limits Of Patience


    Nick Nelson

    Patience is a commodity in baseball. Each team can only have so much. More patience is warranted in certain circumstances, particularly for rebuilding teams, but it is never infinite.

    With Oswaldo Arcia, patience was a luxury the Minnesota Twins could no longer afford.

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    There was much frustration amongst fans over the decision to designate Arcia for assignment last week in order to make room for Danny Santana. Plenty of commenters voiced their displeasure in a 13-page thread here on Twins Daily.

    It's understandable. These are the same fans that have watched so many players leave Minnesota and excel elsewhere. The "David Ortiz Complex" is very real as the legendary DH wraps up a Hall of Fame career that took off as soon as the Twins unwisely gave up on him. There are too many more recent examples currently on other rosters in the league.

    Seeing the youth, the raw power, and the seemingly untapped potential, it's tempting to lump Arcia with some of the organization's most painful past mistakes. Don't do it.

    Let's lay out a few of the facts with regard to Arcia.

    He has been utterly terrible this year. In 114 plate appearances, he has batted .214/.289/.369 with 46 strikeouts. That's a 40 percent K-rate. Guys who are above 40 percent do not belong in the majors.

    The only MLB player with a higher strikeout rate this year (min. 100 PAs) is Byron Buxton. It's debatable whether Buxton belongs in the bigs right now but he gains leeway because he's so young and brings so much to the table defensively.

    Arcia, conversely, is approaching 1,000 plate appearances in the majors, and offers almost no defensive value. If he isn't mashing he isn't really an asset, and it's been quite a while since he has mashed.

    Last year, as we all recall, the outfielder turned a short rehab assignment into a permanent banishment at Triple-A because he never got going there. Save for a brief power splurge in July, Arcia basically slumped for three months straight, finishing with a .199 average in 79 games at Rochester. For someone who had hit 20 homers with a 752 OPS in the majors a year before, it was embarrassing.

    The Twins gave him a chance to make it right. Despite being tempted by Carlos Quentin's veteran bat in spring training, they stuck with Arcia, who was out of options. And while I've seen some people complaining about the team not putting Arcia in a position to succeed, that just isn't true.

    Actually, Paul Molitor has been quite good about using the righty-mashing slugger in the most advantageous spots. Eighty-two percent of Arcia's plate appearances have come against right-handed pitchers, and in those appearances he has batted .202 with a 42 percent K-rate. Yuck.

    Arcia is still young, but he continues to head in the wrong direction and the Twins have too many other players ahead of him that they are rightfully prioritizing. Miguel Sano, as things stand, remains an outfielder and has nowhere else to play. Max Kepler himself will be out of options next year and needs to get comfortable in the majors. Eddie Rosario has been absolutely tearing up Triple-A since his demotion – not struggling and sulking, mind you – and should be back up soon. Even Robbie Grossman is making a case as a long-term piece in some capacity.

    There's no argument to be made for Arcia starting ahead of any of these guys that doesn't fall back on his production from two years ago. Keeping him on the bench was doing neither him nor the Twins any good. He played himself out of the team's plans and it isn't anyone's fault but his own.

    This is not an indictment of the 25-year-old's long-term outlook; it wouldn't surprise me if he falls into the right situation and hits 30 homers in a couple of years. It's not unusual for players to reach their late 20s before they really figure things out in the majors. This game is tough.

    Yet, to argue that the Twins should have perpetually kept Arcia planted on their 25-man roster until that day arrived is silly. You can quibble with the timing and specifics of the DFA move, since Danny Santana isn't necessarily a player worth giving up anything to make room for and it's only June. But there were no signs of positive change, and keeping Arcia around was only going to get tougher with more deserving players like Sano and Rosario returning to the fold.

    All of the hand-wringing over the decision to designate Arcia overlooks the basic realities of the situation. You need to earn things on merit in Major League Baseball and he wasn't doing it. There is certainly a discussion to be had about how the organization may be culpable in his failure to adjust and grow as a player, especially given how many different times we've seen it happen, but that is a separate discussion.

    As of this post going live on Sunday night, there is still no word that Arcia has been claimed off waivers by another club. Maybe this will all be moot. But even if he does land elsewhere, and even if he does finally turn a corner eventually, it won't be because the Twins screwed up and gave up too early.

    It will be because he exhausted every last bit of patience they could show him.

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    it hasn't been worth much at all.

    Pretty much.  I figured that if it would be "okay" as long as they dealt Plouffe.  Since that didn't happen, all bets were off.  In fact, at that point I was convinced that that's exactly what was going to happen because that's the only way the deal made any sense.

     

    Same general manager.

     

    Did you not read my facts?  From June to August in 2013 - a time period in which that wrist injury is not a factor - Clete Thomas had more at-bats.  That's just a fact.  Who is trying to spin something now Nick?

    I'm not spinning anything, You're simply incorrect in claiming that they were prioritizing Thomas over Arcia. Usually they were playing in the same outfield because Clete played CF. Arcia was sent down to the minors for a couple of weeks in late July because he was in a bad slump. That happens to 22-YO rookies sometimes. 

     

    Also I don't really see how events that took place 3 years ago are really relevant to the decision to DFA him now.

     

    You can rip the Twins for how they developed him and I won't necessarily disagree, but as I said in the piece that's a separate discussion. As things currently stand, he is not a useful piece for this organization. When you're a RH-masher who is out of options and whiffing in half your PAs against RHPs after batting below .200 at AAA, the rope runs out. To blame Molitor's usage when he's getting 82% of his looks against righties is just silly. 

    This will prove to be the single worst decision the Twins make this year. Maybe decade.

     

    Arcia's career will fall in the range of Nick Swisher to Manny Ramirez.

     

    Danny Santana's will fall in the range of Darin Mastroianni to Lew Ford...

     

    and we already saw Danny's one good season.

     

    I have not felt this sick about a piece of sport's news since I was the seemingly lone voice crying over the release of Ortiz.

     

    Hitters like this don't come through the pipeline everyday. To give up on this one is as bad an idea as it would have been to cut bait on Morneau after '05. World class stupid.

     

    Poor comparison to Ortiz because Ortiz was a very good hitter with the Twins.     Injuries and a determination that they would rather have Dougie M's defense at 1st   than Ortiz and his bat was questionable at the time but it was mostly the injuries.    Ortiz had an .809 OPS with the Twins.    Arcia's best year two years ago was .752.  Big difference.

    Arcia, in this sense, fell into the same category as Ortiz. Except Ortiz was also about money. The Twins somehow saw the same production for the DH spot happening with LeCroy, who could also catch. They saw Mientkiewicz as being the guy at first. They didn't see a lot of at bats happening for Ortiz, or just sticking him on the bench, and paying him a million bucks or so. Little did we know.

     

    But we are questioning if the Twins do have a plan, a long-range roster construction. And, yes, it is amazing that next season Kepler will be out of options and has to stick (because the Twins added him too soon thinking someone would claim our bonus baby). It is a strange game baseball plays. Glad Kepler is getting a chance to work thru things and he does look like a keeper and the more at bats he gets this year, the better he will be next year (one hopes) or at least he looks like he will listen and learn.

     

    Of course, NO ONE may claim Arcia, which means we get to kep him and make another decision on him next year, which would be a ncie luxury. Or he tears up AAA ball and is a positive trading chip as an add-on to rid of us, say, a large pitching contract/

     

     

    \Also I don't really see how events that took place 3 years ago are really relevant to the decision to DFA him now.

     

    You can rip the Twins for how they developed him and I won't necessarily disagree, but as I said in the piece that's a separate discussion. As things currently stand, he is not a useful piece for this organization. When you're a RH-masher who is out of options and whiffing in half your PAs against RHPs after batting below .200 at AAA, the rope runs out. To blame Molitor's usage when he's getting 82% of his looks against righties is just silly. 

     

    Why is his production from 2014 not relevant but you keep harping on his minor league numbers in 2015?  You're playing fast and loose with what helps your argument.  

     

    Has his production this year been great?  No, he's clearly struggling with adjustments.  It may not have helped that the team basically turned him into a bench player for half a season last year.  

     

    But what's key is that this is NOT a separate discussion.  You stated, at least twice, that the Twins gave him a "chance to succeed" and "make it right".  Now you're suggesting you'd agree they probably didn't.  Since when is how a team handles and develops a player not relevant to the player's production?  Is that seriously the argument you're making?  

     

    Arcia struggled to adjust - most young players do.  What is different in his case was that the team prioritized Hunter over allowing him to continue to adjust to big league pitching.  They prioritized Park over giving him a run.  And now they prioritized Danny Santana and/or one of their 13 pitchers over him.  

    If someone thinks 179 PAs in the last 231 games isn't enough to say he was given a chance, I don't know what to tell them :-)  And, come on, a season like this isn't the kind of season where you see what you got in a player, especially one with an OPS in the mid .700s (unaided by BABIP) just two seasons ago.  These games matter! :-)

    Edited by jimmer

    My main concern with this move is does it mean that they're still considering Sano an OF? Woulda made more sense to me to send down Park (or a pitcher or trade an aging veteran past his prime) and put Arcia in at DH until Sano comes back and make Park earn his way back on the roster and move Sano to 3B finally.

     

    It sorta looks like they're fixing on keeping Plouffe around and continuing the Sano experiment in RF. Concerning also to consider what they plan to do with Polanco so they can keep Dozier around....

     

    My main concern with this move is does it mean that they're still considering Sano an OF? Woulda made more sense to me to send down Park (or a pitcher or trade an aging veteran past his prime) and put Arcia in at DH until Sano comes back and make Park earn his way back on the roster and move Sano to 3B finally.

     

    It sorta looks like they're fixing on keeping Plouffe around and continuing the Sano experiment in RF. Concerning also to consider what they plan to do with Polanco so they can keep Dozier around....

    TR said yesterday on Inside Twins, Sano's future is at 3B. So the fan board is getting what they want and Plouffe is on the table.

     

    Thank God. Was hoping Sano didn't factor into the supposed logjam of MLB caliber OF's on the roster.

    good stuff.  right up there with too many quality MLB starters to put May in the rotation :-)

     

    At what point do the Twins just do this:  Trade Plouffe and Dozier.

     

    Rosario in LF, Buxton in CF, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3B and Polanco at 2B.

    Edited by jimmer

     

    Why is his production from 2014 not relevant but you keep harping on his minor league numbers in 2015?  You're playing fast and loose with what helps your argument.  

     

    Has his production this year been great?  No, he's clearly struggling with adjustments.  It may not have helped that the team basically turned him into a bench player for half a season last year.  

     

    But what's key is that this is NOT a separate discussion.  You stated, at least twice, that the Twins gave him a "chance to succeed" and "make it right".  Now you're suggesting you'd agree they probably didn't.  Since when is how a team handles and develops a player not relevant to the player's production?  Is that seriously the argument you're making?  

    Focusing on more recent events qualifies as playing "fast and loose"? Ok.

     

    Arcia IS a bench/part-time player. When you don't play defense, can't run, and can't hit LH pitchers, that's the way it is. He was not miscast in that role. Molitor played Arcia damn near exclusively against right-handed pitchers to try to get him going and it didn't happen.

     

    When I mentioned development issues I was referring to coaching and helping him make adjustments. His playing time has been fine. 

     

    This will prove to be the single worst decision the Twins make this year. Maybe decade.

     

    Arcia's career will fall in the range of Nick Swisher to Manny Ramirez.

     

    Danny Santana's will fall in the range of Darin Mastroianni to Lew Ford...

     

    and we already saw Danny's one good season.

     

    I have not felt this sick about a piece of sport's news since I was the seemingly lone voice crying over the release of Ortiz.

     

    Hitters like this don't come through the pipeline everyday. To give up on this one is as bad an idea as it would have been to cut bait on Morneau after '05. World class stupid.

     

    Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The comparison is between Swisher and Manny?  Where did you pull these out?  Both of those hitters walked a lot more and struck out a lot less than Arcia ever has.  Swisher was a competent fielder until late in his career and Manny was one of the better RH power hitters the game has ever seen.  I understand and have seen the guys potential, but this is getting out of hand.

    OK, here's my take. Oswaldo Arcia is vulnerable to high fastballs and breaking balls in the dirt and he can't lay off either one consistently. That is probably one too many holes to be an effective major league hitter long term. If that is the case, then what else does Arcia offer? Well, he looks like a good teammate and he's good with the GatorAde bucket. He's not fast, he is a poor defender and he plays left and right field.

     

    "Good" Arcia happened in 2013-2014. Since then, he has been a poor player. Since 2014, Danny Santana has been a poor player as well. If you want to include 2013 and 2014 for Arcia in assessing his upside, you have to look at Danny's 2014. Santana was pretty spectacular in 2014.

     

    So what you have is two players who both looked like they had broken through coming into 2015. One of them is a switch hitter who has played a lot of games up the middle of the diamond and who has very good speed and the other who has only played the corner outfield spots (poorly) and has demonstrated power. It is not so cut and dried that Oswaldo Arcia is the superior option.

     

    good stuff.  right up there with too many quality MLB starters to put May in the rotation :-)

     

    At what point do the Twins just do this:  Trade Plouffe and Dozier.

     

    Rosario in LF, Buxton in CF, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3B and Polanco at 2B.

    They were at the trade Plouffe point this time last year...

     

    Dozier is more of a "deal the veterans to free up PT and acquire talent" in my view.  I do want to see Polanco though.

    Edited by wsnydes

     

    Focusing on more recent events qualifies as playing "fast and loose"? Ok.

     

    When I mentioned development issues I was referring to coaching and helping him make adjustments. His playing time has been fine.

     

    Yes, if we want to use every young player's worst, and most recent, production to slam them - why in the blue hell did you bring up Rosario?  That seems like a really bizarre set of rules you're playing with. 

     

    His playing time really hasn't been.  He was a productive first and second year player and then was basically banished his entire third season.  Then he was bypassed for a FA that isn't panning out in his fourth season.  He was basically given zero rope to capitalize on his potential the second he started to struggle.

     

    And, again, we could've cut any number of players with FAR less upside and didn't.

     

    Correct.  I'm not going to lose sleep over Arcia, but there were more deserving options to be cut loose or sent down.  Carrying the 13 pitchers for Molitor to mismanage and overuse is a mistake.

    Yeah, that's my take.  I think Arcia should have been used differently in previous years, but at this time and with this roster I think it's time to drop him.  But I also think it's time to do a ton of different things, dropping Santana being another timely move.  If this is the only move they make, what's the point.

     

    Whoa, whoa, whoa.  The comparison is between Swisher and Manny?  Where did you pull these out?  Both of those hitters walked a lot more and struck out a lot less than Arcia ever has.  Swisher was a competent fielder until late in his career and Manny was one of the better RH power hitters the game has ever seen.  I understand and have seen the guys potential, but this is getting out of hand.

    I was going to put him somewhere between Jason Tyner and Roberto Clemente, but he already beat me to the comparison post.

    OK, here's my take. Oswaldo Arcia is vulnerable to high fastballs and breaking balls in the dirt and he can't lay off either one consistently. That is probably one too many holes to be an effective major league hitter long term. If that is the case, then what else does Arcia offer? Well, he looks like a good teammate and he's good with the GatorAde bucket. He's not fast, he is a poor defender and he plays left and right field.

     

    "Good" Arcia happened in 2013-2014. Since then, he has been a poor player. Since 2014, Danny Santana has been a poor player as well. If you want to include 2013 and 2014 for Arcia in assessing his upside, you have to look at Danny's 2014. Santana was pretty spectacular in 2014.

     

    So what you have is two players who both looked like they had broken through coming into 2015. One of them is a switch hitter who has played a lot of games up the middle of the diamond and who has very good speed and the other who has only played the corner outfield spots (poorly) and has demonstrated power. It is not so cut and dried that Oswaldo Arcia is the superior option.

    Arcia and Santana are both fringe players, I think we can all agree to that. However, athletic light hitting players are certainly more readily available than players that can hit for power.

     

    Arcia and Santana are both fringe players, I think we can all agree to that. However, athletic light hitting players are certainly more readily available than players that can hit for power.

    Santana was arguably the worst player in the majors last year amongst players who got any kind of regular time.  And he'll likely get even more PAs this year.  He already leads the league in caught stealing even though he's only attempted 17 steals.  And he's not a good defender.  The rope he's allotted because of numbers heavily boosted by a .400 BABIP in 2014 is incredible.  Then again, look what the Twins did after Hughes and Suzuki had their 2014 season. 

    Edited by jimmer

    Arcia and Santana are both fringe players, I think we can all agree to that. However, athletic light hitting players are certainly more readily available than players that can hit for power.

    That is exactly it. I would be curious Nick, if you were the GM would you DFA Santana or Arcia? An either or. Not both.

     

    I think that is what has folks riled up. Why DFA Arcia who has some potential over Santana who has none, is more replaceable, and less upside.

     

    OK, here's my take. Oswaldo Arcia is vulnerable to high fastballs and breaking balls in the dirt and he can't lay off either one consistently. That is probably one too many holes to be an effective major league hitter long term. If that is the case, then what else does Arcia offer? Well, he looks like a good teammate and he's good with the GatorAde bucket. He's not fast, he is a poor defender and he plays left and right field.

     

    "Good" Arcia happened in 2013-2014. Since then, he has been a poor player. Since 2014, Danny Santana has been a poor player as well. If you want to include 2013 and 2014 for Arcia in assessing his upside, you have to look at Danny's 2014. Santana was pretty spectacular in 2014.

     

    So what you have is two players who both looked like they had broken through coming into 2015. One of them is a switch hitter who has played a lot of games up the middle of the diamond and who has very good speed and the other who has only played the corner outfield spots (poorly) and has demonstrated power. It is not so cut and dried that Oswaldo Arcia is the superior option.

     

    We'll have to disagree on Santana looking like he broke through, many people here did not think that had happened.

     

    I do agree, neither look like a good option right now. 

     

    We'll have to disagree on Santana looking like he broke through, many people here did not think that had happened.

     

    I do agree, neither look like a good option right now. 

    Good Arcia (2014) had a BABIP in the high 200s (below league average).

     

    Good Santana (2014) had a BABIP in the .400s (more than 100 points higher than league average).

    Santana was arguably the worst player in the majors last year amongst players who got any kind of regular time. And he'll likely get even more PAs this year. He already leads the league in caught stealing even though he's only attempted 17 steals. And he's not a good defender. The rope he's allotted because of numbers heavily boosted by a .400 BABIP in 2014 is incredible. Then again, look what the Twins did after Hughes and Suzuki had their 2014 season.

    No need to tell me. I got the ball rolling on this thread of how bad Santana has been :)

     

    His one dimension is one more than Danny Santana has.  

    Well, Arcia isn't pinch running for anyone late in a game, can't come in and put down a bunt in the bottom of the tenth, and isn't nearly as versatile as Santana on D.  If I'm using my bench to just fill in here and there, I'll take Santana over the pinch-hitting option of Arcia.  Both Arcia and Santana had fluke years, apparently.  For some reason Arcia is seen as more likely to get back to those levels than Santana.  I like Arcia.  I wish we could have kept him.  I would have sent down Kepler to give Arcia a 2 or 3 week trial to save his job.  But I'm not going to say he was mismanaged.  The guy is a little too up and down, and maybe he'll settle down like Gogo did, but chances are he'll always be a jumpy, nervous hitter who can't hit an elevated fastball.




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