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    Do the Twins Really Need to Add Another Starter?


    Seth Stohs

    The 2019 Minnesota Twins offense put up some historic numbers. On Tuesday, we learned that the team had added one of the best hitters over the last dozen years to the already-strong lineup. Twins fans got excited, thinking about the offensive numbers the team could produce. At the same time, many quickly jumped back to asking if the team still needs to add more pitching.

    Image courtesy of Seth Stohs, Twins Daily (L to R: Randy Dobnak, Lewis Thorpe, Brusdar Graterol, Devin Smeltzer)

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    Clearly the Twins went into the offseason hoping to add a top starting pitcher. Use the word “impact” if you like. The two impact starters on the free agent market weren’t coming here (Cole, Strasburg). Two of the free agent starters who fit in that next tier (Bumgarner and Wheeler) went elsewhere for non-baseball and non-dollar reasons. And it appears that the Twins just didn’t (understandably) want to give Hyun-Jin Ryu a fourth year.

    With that, they shifted their attention to adding to an already-great offense. They gave Josh Donaldson a guaranteed $92 million over the next four years, and an option for 2024 that makes it pretty likely he is retained.

    I am often told by Twins fans to expect the offense and several of its hitters to regress in 2020. First, my assumption is that something will be done with the baseball, which may reduce some offensive numbers, but that will be across the board, for all teams. And yes, teams will have more data points to develop a way to attack the Twins hitters. So, regression for some and for the whole, is certainly possible.

    However, much of the Twins offense is made up of a core of players between 22-year-old Luis Arraez and 29-year-old Silver Slugger Mitch Garver. And none of them had seasons that were so far out of the realm of their potential that makes you think that any regression would have to be major. Jorge Polanco, Miguel Sano, Byron Buxton, Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler all had strong seasons, but none of them outside of what we thought they could do when they were prospects.

    Silver Slugger Nelson Cruz is going to turn 40 during the season. It’s silly to expect him to put up the same kind of numbers he put up in 2019, but his approach and his strength should still produce really good numbers in the middle of a lineup. Josh Donaldson replaces CJ Cron in the lineup. While he is older, he’s been one of the greatest hitters in baseball. If healthy, he should continue to put up eye-popping numbers.

    Injuries? Yes, injuries happen and they aren’t necessarily easy or possible to predict. But, there is one good way to alleviate some of those concerns. The first is simply to have depth. The Twins have depth. Simply in the form of Marwin Gonzalez there is depth. He can play the corner infield and corner outfield spots. LaMonte Wade and Jake Cave can man the outfield spots when needed. Ehire Adrianza is a terrific utility infielder. Alex Avila is the backup catcher. And there are prospects, high-caliber prospects at each position, who are close to MLB-ready.

    The Twins were able to keep Jake Odorizzi away from free agency for one more year by offering him the $17.8 million Qualifying Offer (and him accepting it). They also retained the services of right-hander Michael Pineda for the next two years. He will finish the final 39 games of his suspension and rejoin the team in mid-May.

    Jose Berrios is entering his Age-26 season. He will need to figure out August, but there’s a lot to be excited about it, and there is potential for him to find another level. Jake Odorizzi found his next level in 2019. Michael Pineda, at the time he was suspended, was being talked about as a possible Game 1 starter in the playoffs. That’s a solid first three.

    Homer Bailey? No, not exciting, but he has certainly had his moments. And, he was really good in the second half of 2019.

    Rich Hill? Man, if only he could stay healthy. Over the last five years, he has been a top 10-15 starting pitcher in baseball. Of course, he won’t be back until at least June after elbow surgery. There is no way to know how that recovery and rehab will go with 100% confidence. But they got him for a great contract and even if he’s back by the end of July, and can get close to what he’s been in recent years, that’s a nice pitcher to have in August, September and October. Can the Twins get the best out of him?

    With Hill and Pineda unable to start the season on the active list, the rotation will contain Berrios, Odorizzi, Bailey and…

    Well, for right now, that answer comes down to about four options; Brusdar Graterol, Lewis Thorpe, Randy Dobnak and Devin Smeltzer. Yes, Blaine Hardy will be at spring training. Jhoan Duran is on the 40-man roster, so he’ll be at big-league spring training for a while. There may be other names mentioned early in spring training. But for all intents and purposes, it comes down to those four pitchers.

    All four pitched in the big leagues in 2019.

    Randy Dobnak: He was the Twins minor league pitcher of the year in 2019 when he pitched in Ft. Myers, Pensacola, Rochester and ended the season with the Twins, pitching well enough in September to earn a Game 2 start in the playoffs. It didn’t go well, but it shouldn’t minimize how much he grew and improved over the course of the season. And, in addition to being a good story, he’s a good pitcher too.

    Lewis Thorpe: He was the Twins minor league pitcher of the year in 2018. He spent most of 2019 in Rochester but came up a couple of times. He made a few starts and also pitched out of the bullpen. He had some good games and some not-so-good games, but what he did well is miss bats.

    Devin Smeltzer: He moved back into a starting role in 2019 and started in Pensacola. A month later he was in Rochester, and before the end of May, he made his major-league debut and it went very well. He was a frequent guest on the Rochester-to-Minneapolis travel list but experienced success in a variety of roles in the big leagues.

    Brusdar Graterol: He came up for September and worked out of the bullpen. He was off to a good start last year in AA, but he missed nearly three months in the middle of the season with a shoulder injury. He came back in the bullpen so that he could be called up and his triple-digit fastball could help the Twins late. He will be on some sort of innings plan, but most would think that it’d be ideal for him to continue developing as a starter. Could that be as a ‘Primary’ pitcher, or could he just be a regular starter until Pineda comes back, or until Hill returns?

    Derek Falvey is often given a lot of credit for the pitching development in Cleveland. We have seen them continue to develop a pipeline of quality starters. Several of their current pitchers were not top prospects when they came up but certainly have developed into that status. Corey Kluber might just be the best example of that development plan and process, though he will be with the Rangers in 2020.

    So, should we believe in Derek Falvey’s track record? Should we trust the processes that have been initiated by Falvey along with pitching guru Josh Kalk and minor league pitching coordinator Paul Maki, and each of the minor league coaches and coordinators brought in? How about their utilization of technologies in recent years? Why not give these guys a chance?

    Herein lies the question from today’s title, Do the Twins need to add another starter?

    In my opinion, the answer is obvious. No, they don’t NEED to add another starter. With this offense, the team will win a lot of games. Their top two pitchers (Berrios, Odorizzi) are good. Bailey certainly can be good. And, four young pitchers who got time in 2019 are certainly capable of being solid, and a few of them have the potential to be pretty good. Having that offensive support should certainly encourage them to throw a lot of strikes. Pineda will be back. Hill should be back a little later.

    But, it isn’t that simple. While they don’t NEED to add another starter, Falvey and Thad Levine should continue to monitor the starting pitcher trade market. I don’t think Jon Gray or German Marquez are going to be available this offseason, but those are the caliber of pitcher that the team should show interest in. Y’all know I’m not at all high on Matt Boyd, but if the Twins research and development crew says that he could be a pitcher of the Berrios/Odorizzi/Pineda quality in 2020, maybe try that. There may be names that we haven’t even thought of that they could get.

    But don’t just add any more pitchers just to add more pitchers. If they’re going to make a move, make it a good one. Get a pitcher as good as Odorizzi, or better.

    If not, take your chances with a strong offense and a pretty solid starting rotation (and a pretty solid bullpen too, mind you). Continue to evaluate and teach those inexperienced pitchers, Get Pineda back. Get Hill back…

    And keep an eye on the phone, always looking to make a big addition in July… or June… or May!

    For much more on Brusdar Graterol, Lewis Thorpe, Randy Dobnak and Devin Smeltzer, along with Jhoan Duran, Jordan Balazovic and about 90 other Twins minor league pitchers, order a copy of the 2020 Minnesota Twins Prospect Handbook. It is available in paperback or PDF ebook.

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    Kluber, Salazar, Carrasco, Bauer

     

    Clevinger is 29 and has been in the starting rotation on and off since 2016, when he started 10 games and then 21 in 2017 then 32 and 21.

    Bieber is 24 and started 19 then 33.

    And Civale started 10 games last year and one might assume because of the injuries to Kluber, Salazar, Carrasco and Clevinger and the trade of Bauer is how that happened.

    You might say they were brought along slow and forced their way into the rotation because they were good not because starting spots needed to be filled.

     

    Exactly that, and Kluber, Carrasco, and Bauer were brought along in trades but not as aces. Cleveland has developed pitchers. We should agree on that. I am all for trades for pitchers like Alcantara knowing he is not that great right now and needs to develop, but the Twins might even have trouble gaining these #3-5 slot pitchers right now.

    I would love to get an ace in a trade but there hasn't been a single credible proposal. I want to be surprised too. Does anyone know of an available ace right now?

    The Twins will need to bring along those prospects who they identify as good, hopefully soon.

     

     

    Exactly that, and Kluber, Carrasco, and Bauer were brought along in trades but not as aces. Cleveland has developed pitchers. We should agree on that. I am all for trades for pitchers like Alcantara knowing he is not that great right now and needs to develop, but the Twins might even have trouble gaining these #3-5 slot pitchers right now.

    I would love to get an ace in a trade but there hasn't been a single credible proposal. I want to be surprised too. Does anyone know of an available ace right now?

    The Twins will need to bring along those prospects who they identify as good, hopefully soon.

    You asked "why didn't the Indians go get another starter instead of using these guys?"

     

    The answer was because they had  a solid rotation (the guys I mentioned and Tomlin a few years back) and prospects in the minors, they didn't hand one of those pitchers you mentioned a spot in the starting rotation let alone two like the twins are, they all came up and earned it

    (This year they seem to be doing what the Twin are doing and that is putting both Plesac and Civale in the starting rotation,which as a Twins fan I hope end up like it does when teams go with two rookies in the starting rotation, not very good)

    I have always been on board with Dobnack as the number 5 starter, I think he came up last year and earned it, I don't think Thorpe, Smeltzer or Graterol did enough last year to earn a starting rotation spot. They still have work to do in my mind.

     

    Everything else you mentioned I agree with.

     

    It is not that I do not agree with your assessment that the Twins could trade any or all of the prospects, it's that there doesn't seem to be any actual proposals to bring in an ace and that seems understandable because teams are holding on to what they have right now. A Syndergaard is not available and it will almost certainly be a few months before teams re-assess their direction. 

    Like many, I am willing to be surprised by an acquisition of Gray, Syndergaard, Snell, Castillo, or others.

     

    Right. I am with you. And Synergaard is just a name I threw out. I want one of those types of pitchers. Whether they can be had now, later or never is the question. I do however think that with as many position player prospects and young guys we have around, it wouldn't hurt to move 1-2 of them in order to get this type of player in here. 

     

    Be honest: you knew, as we all did, that Berrios was going to lose the Yankees in game 1.

    A healthy Rich Hill, a deadline-deal ace, an unsuspended Pineda, and Jake Odorizzi all would have a better chance at beating them. That's all I'm saying. No agenda, and I hope he proves me wrong. 

     

    I had no idea, and neither did you.  If you knew, you'd be setting lines in Vegas, not posting on a Twins message board.  Was I optimistic the Twins would win? No, but the Twins defense giving up 2 unearned runs didn't help Berrios, nor did Kyle Gibson giving up 3 runs in his one inning, nor Zack Littell getting no one out in the 5th, and putting Duffey in a tough spot.  The Twins were tied with the Yankees when Berrios left the game, and still only 1 run behind going to the bottom of the sixth when Stashak served up two homers.  Berrios didn't lose to the Yankees in game 1, and while we all hoped for more, he remains far and away our best bet to start a potential game 1 in 2020, barring a huge trade between then and now.  Pineda, Odo, or Hill will not be better options.

    Yes, the Twins desperately need another starter.

    Regarding the topic of in-house candidates, I'd propose another name: Trevor May.

    I recall listenting to an interview Falvey gave in spring training the first year he took over. I was waiting to hear which player he would mention first. It was Trevor May, and he talked about May's potential as a quality starter. I have to believe   Falvey  hasn't  completely written off this idea.  May  broke in as a starter of course  and was effective for a short stretch.I would challenge the notion that he's now locked into the role of a reliever.  Other in house candidates such as Dobnak, Thorpe, Littlel do nothing for me. Graterol isn't ready yet. Smeltzer's a possibility but an unproven one. 

     

    If all teams with good bullpens have good k/bb ratios and ERA estimators, doesn't it follow that those are therefore good indicators that a bullpen is good?  After all, would we ever look at a bullpen with bad k/bb ratios or ERA estimators, and deem it a good bullpen?

    We're not talking about good vs bad bullpens, though. We're talking about finding separation between good bullpens. If you present me with two bullpens, and all I know is that one has a better K/BB ratio and FIP but both rank well in those categories relative to league, I can't really conclude which is the better bullpen without additional data.

     

     

    In short, as best as I can tell, the only statistical metric you actually want to use to gauge bullpens' relative value is batting average against

    Not true at all. I want to look at a lot of measures -- just not FIP and K-BB% exclusively.

     

    I think we've both said our case. This is an argument that's going to involve some level of subjectivity, and it's okay to disagree. I'll drop it now.

    Bailey was pitching mostly every 6 days after mid August when his ERA peaked at 5.58. He is one of the worst starting pitchers in the last 5 years. What rose color glasses. Sure he will do ok against KC, Detroit and Baltimore. Who doesn't?

     

     

    You might want to watch his 2 August starts against the Yankees or his September start against the Astros.

     

    Can you find a starter that was more effective against the Yankees last year? I am certain no one wearing a Twin uniform was more effective or even close to as effective.

     

    First off, we're straying off topic here. Another poster was making the claim the Twins pen could be significantly better than that of the Yankees or Astros, enough to offset not having an ace SP in a postseason series. If you or anyone else wants to say the Twins have a comparable pen to those clubs, I would probably agree. So I'm not really talking about anyone being "far better", if anything that is what I am arguing against. If my language or examples suggested otherwise, I apologize and would like to re-focus on that point.

     

    That said, as a general example, the Yankees top 5 relievers entering the postseason last year threw 295.2 innings in the regular season; the rest of their relievers threw 369 innings. Theoretically, I don't think it's controversial to suggest the worst 56% of innings could offset some of the success of the best 44%, in terms of overall season numbers. The Yankees top RP by innings was a long man who was barely a factor in the postseason; their 3rd and #8-11 RPs by innings didn't even make their postseason rosters.

     

    Again, I don't know if that's really the case between the Yankees and Twins in 2019. I didn't mean to imply that the Yankees top 5 are that much better than the Twins top 5. More like, their pens are probably comparable, so it's going to be a challenge for the Twins to stake out a big advantage in that area in a postseason series.

     

    That's fair. I misunderstood your point, and don't disagree. I would say that, in general, quality differences are less as you tick down the list (i.e., clubs have more variation in their top 3 relievers than in relievers 6-8). 

     

    The Twins could potentially get creative in the post-season, it's just too early to say whether that's going to be a viable strategy . . . all kinds of variables related to health, prospect development, etc.

     

    Perhaps this question might be better phrased as: Do the Twins Really Need to Add Another Starter Before the Trade Deadline?

     

    Since most folks seem to be concerned about a potential playoff rotation.

    yes to your point... I also think most of us assume they won't pay the price to get one. 

    Well, this IS the Twins, so whomever they sign will need to be a bargain basement special. I'm surprised they don't stalk every Tommy John case around their hospital, asking if they're sure they'll get their fastball back, and that the Twins would be willing to make a speculative deal...

     

    Or they could look on Craigslist for Used Pitchers. 

     

    Realistically, they'll probably go with a big rotation of Dobnak and pals, hoping the offense can sustain their 10 runs per game pace. No problem. Right?????




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