Blue Jays 11, Twins 4: Yuck. Twins Bullpen Surrenders Eight in the Eighth to Lose Yet Again

saviking · May 3

How about 10 starters and 3 relievers in the pen. So we have a backend starter for each starter and a reliever in the 9th if needed.

Just kidding but maybe 2 back end starters so we can get rid of the really horrible group of relievers..

And now, Sands goes on injured reserve.

Major League Ready · May 3

1 hour ago, karcherd said:

We don't know who is to blame for not following thru on the rebuild or if that was truly the plan. Josh Bell was signed at the same time it was announced that Tom was taking over as leader of the Twins. I am not sure if he had input at that time. But that signing does not indicate a full blown on rebuild. Falvey made no moves in the first two months of the offseason to indicate any plan he might have had. And the turmoil at the top is not an excuse. executives deal with that in every industry and they still make decisions for the best of the organization. Falvey sat on his hands.

Tom Pohlad is in charge. He is responsible. His actions and his public statements make it quite clear he was not willing to continue the rebuild. Falvey's deadline decisions made it quite clear he favored a rebuild. I don't think a 1 year deal for $7M is an indicator he was not willing to continue the rebuild. St. Louis signed Dustin May for $12.5M after trading Sonny Gray and eating $20M in salary. They also traded their best position player and signed Ramon Urias. I would concede that we don't know exactly what Falvey was thinking because we did not see it play out but we did see Tom Pohlad's intentions play out. This is on him.

AceWrigley · May 3

17 hours ago, ashbury said:

"Yeah, you're the one that messed up. You trusted me."

Hey, I carved out a whole career on that one. 😜

AceWrigley · May 3

18 hours ago, palmspringstwinsfan said:

“Management malpractice” may be this year’s “total system breakdown “. If the Twins could turn a double play the way this writer turns a phrase, they would not be headed to last place

Royce Lewis has not participated in a single DP yet this year.

AceWrigley · May 3

17 hours ago, Nshore said:

Watching Wallner bat now is painful. It's almost sadistic that they keep running him out there.

I'm not an insider but unless they discover some magic dust to sprinkle on his bat and he hits a pair of homers on Sunday, I expect the Moose will be grazing in St. Paul very very soon.

AceWrigley · May 3

17 hours ago, Dave Borton said:

I have to go scrum the stats Banda had at LA. I listen to the Dodgers when I go to bed. Banda was impressive when I saw him in ST and listened to games.

We must have found him on a trip to the west coast:

Yeah but, which bin was it?

AceWrigley · May 3

15 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Latroy Hawkins is going to look like he's 140 years old by July.

karcherd · May 3

22 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Tom Pohlad is in charge. He is responsible. His actions and his public statements make it quite clear he was not willing to continue the rebuild. Falvey's deadline decisions made it quite clear he favored a rebuild. I don't think a 1 year deal for $7M is an indicator he was not willing to continue the rebuild. St. Louis signed Dustin May for $12.5M after trading Sonny Gray and eating $20M in salary. They also traded their best position player and signed Ramon Urias. I would concede that we don't know exactly what Falvey was thinking because we did not see it play out but we did see Tom Pohlad's intentions play out. This is on him.

Falvey's actions were inconsistent with a rebuild. I have one example, another is tendering Larnach. That move made no sense if you are in a rebuild with all of our young outfielders.

AceWrigley · May 3

11 minutes ago, karcherd said:

Falvey's actions were inconsistent with a rebuild. I have one example, another is tendering Larnach. That move made no sense if you are in a rebuild with all of our young outfielders.

Agreed.

bean5302 · May 3

53 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Tom Pohlad is in charge. He is responsible. His actions and his public statements make it quite clear he was not willing to continue the rebuild. Falvey's deadline decisions made it quite clear he favored a rebuild. I don't think a 1 year deal for $7M is an indicator he was not willing to continue the rebuild. St. Louis signed Dustin May for $12.5M after trading Sonny Gray and eating $20M in salary. They also traded their best position player and signed Ramon Urias. I would concede that we don't know exactly what Falvey was thinking because we did not see it play out but we did see Tom Pohlad's intentions play out. This is on him.

Tom didn't take over until mid-December, and he was appointed to be the person in control by ownership. Tom doesn't make roster decisions. It's mind-boggling to me how so many fans on this site believe MLB owners are in the scouting rooms making personnel decisions. If Tom was doing this, there would have been no need to keep half of Falzoll.

Aside from this owners make roster decisions stuff, it seems to me Tom gave Falvey a couple weeks to change the Falzoll philosophy. To actually put a team together which was going to be competitive and when Falvey was, yet again, completely bewildered by the concept of where you spend money when you have budget constraints, Tom fired him. Even a layperson can understand high floor mid-salary veteran guys who the team is going to play every day doesn't win championships. Tough decisions were needed. Falvey and Zoll didn't make them.

Falvey was incompetent as a GM, and his other half, Zoll seems to have the same mindset.

bean5302 · May 3

2 hours ago, terrydactyls said:

"actually churn them"? Old man asking - what does that mean?

Churning is the practice of rotation through the roster. Shuttling the hot hands from AAA or waiver wire to the replace the cold hands on the MLB roster.

Same thing for the investment world. It's a negative connotation for the most part. Agents and advisors who "churn" the business focus on replacement of stocks, bonds, life insurance, other investments with similar products/offerings under the guise of chasing a hypothetical performance improvement.

I would consider the idea to lack any merit. To know a guy has gone cold, you have to let them blow a couple games with bad outings in the first place. Then you have to trust the "hot hand" in AAA will say hot on the mound at the MLB level. Basically, you keep throwing your replacement level guys out there and rotating through them with other replacement guys hoping one of them turns into a diamond in the rough. End result, you still lose tons of games, but maybe by the end of the year you have a slightly better bullpen? Probably not. You're not going to find a ton of free high end talent floating around.

The source of the phrase comes from the act of churning butter.

USAFChief · May 3

10 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Churning is the practice of rotation through the roster. Shuttling the hot hands from AAA or waiver wire to the replace the cold hands on the MLB roster.

Same thing for the investment world. It's a negative connotation for the most part. Agents and advisors who "churn" the business focus on replacement of stocks, bonds, life insurance, other investments with similar products/offerings under the guise of chasing a hypothetical performance improvement.

I would consider the idea to lack any merit. To know a guy has gone cold, you have to let them blow a couple games with bad outings in the first place. Then you have to trust the "hot hand" in AAA will say hot on the mound at the MLB level. Basically, you keep throwing your replacement level guys out there and rotating through them with other replacement guys hoping one of them turns into a diamond in the rough. End result, you still lose tons of games, but maybe by the end of the year you have a slightly better bullpen? Probably not. You're not going to find a ton of free high end talent floating around.

The source of the phrase comes from the act of churning butter.

Yep. Cycling through DFA claims is how you get the Twins pen.

Also, the :just convert some starters" line we see trotted out sounds fine but it's hard to pull off and certainly can't be done in an offseason. Nobody has enough spare starters sitting around in the high minors with the kind of stuff needed to really be a difference maker to throw a half dozen at the issue. You might find one or two per year.

Bullpens need to be built, with quality, over time.

Edited May 3 by USAFChief

bean5302 · May 3

6 hours ago, mark sills said:

first inning each game 0 era.

On the first Sunday in April of 2026 Matt Wallner has a wRC+ of 382.

4/11/26. 2.00 WHIP in the "first inning." Seems like that run which HE caused through the wild pitch maybe should count for a little bit?

image.png.b3fdf93e2c518673e429ec74878b7fc6.png

Just because Morris has 5.0 innings where he hasn't allowed an "earned" run which honestly, he earned, doesn't mean that's because he's better in the first inning he pitches.

mark allen · May 3

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

On the first Sunday in April of 2026 Matt Wallner has a wRC+ of 382.

4/11/26. 2.00 WHIP in the "first inning." Seems like that run which HE caused through the wild pitch maybe should count for a little bit?

Just because Morris has 5.0 innings where he hasn't allowed an "earned" run which honestly, he earned, doesn't mean that's because he's better in the first inning he pitches.

I guess Andrew answered

mark allen · May 3

1 hour ago, bean5302 said:

On the first Sunday in April of 2026 Matt Wallner has a wRC+ of 382.

4/11/26. 2.00 WHIP in the "first inning." Seems like that run which HE caused through the wild pitch maybe should count for a little bit?

Just because Morris has 5.0 innings where he hasn't allowed an "earned" run which honestly, he earned, doesn't mean that's because he's better in the first inning he pitches.

he pitched the sixth inning the 7th was his 2nd inning pitched

AceWrigley · May 3

x

AceWrigley · May 3

x

Major League Ready · May 3

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Tom didn't take over until mid-December, and he was appointed to be the person in control by ownership. Tom doesn't make roster decisions. It's mind-boggling to me how so many fans on this site believe MLB owners are in the scouting rooms making personnel decisions. If Tom was doing this, there would have been no need to keep half of Falzoll.

Aside from this owners make roster decisions stuff, it seems to me Tom gave Falvey a couple weeks to change the Falzoll philosophy. To actually put a team together which was going to be competitive and when Falvey was, yet again, completely bewildered by the concept of where you spend money when you have budget constraints, Tom fired him. Even a layperson can understand high floor mid-salary veteran guys who the team is going to play every day doesn't win championships. Tough decisions were needed. Falvey and Zoll didn't make them.

Falvey was incompetent as a GM, and his other half, Zoll seems to have the same mindset.

I can't speak for others who supported a rebuild but I never suggested Tom Pohlad was making personnel decisions. He made decisions on payroll and strategic direction. (Continuing the rebuild vs whatever you want to call the direction he took) Tom Pohlad and the Pohlad family made the decision to invest virtually nothing in the BP. The direction they took demonstrated incompetence. Zoll did not decide the direction or to once again cut payroll even further while insisting this team was a contender as is which screams not a clue kind of incompetence.

bean5302 · May 4

7 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I can't speak for others who supported a rebuild but I never suggested Tom Pohlad was making personnel decisions. He made decisions on payroll and strategic direction. (Continuing the rebuild vs whatever you want to call the direction he took) Tom Pohlad and the Pohlad family made the decision to invest virtually nothing in the BP. The direction they took demonstrated incompetence. Zoll did not decide the direction or to once again cut payroll even further while insisting this team was a contender as is which screams not a clue kind of incompetence.

The owners do not make roster decisions. There's a reason GMs exist. GMs make roster decisions. If you don't like the bullpen, that's not on the Pohlads, that's on Falzoll. Did you expect Tom Pohlad to pick up the phone and start calling agents and signing bullpen arms behind the GM's back?

Major League Ready · May 4

10 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The owners do not make roster decisions. There's a reason GMs exist. GMs make roster decisions. If you don't like the bullpen, that's not on the Pohlads, that's on Falzoll. Did you expect Tom Pohlad to pick up the phone and start calling agents and signing bullpen arms behind the GM's back?

Did Zoll make the decision to once again cut payroll again? Would Zoll have made different personnel decisions had they added $10M instead of reducing payroll by $25M. Perhaps Tyler rogers instead of Taylor or both? You don’t seem to understand the influence of strategic decisions on personnel decisions and until you do you should abandon the theory that some of us are too stupid to understand owners don't make personnel decisions.

Woof Bronzer · May 4

21 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Tom didn't take over until mid-December, and he was appointed to be the person in control by ownership. Tom doesn't make roster decisions. It's mind-boggling to me how so many fans on this site believe MLB owners are in the scouting rooms making personnel decisions. If Tom was doing this, there would have been no need to keep half of Falzoll.

Aside from this owners make roster decisions stuff, it seems to me Tom gave Falvey a couple weeks to change the Falzoll philosophy. To actually put a team together which was going to be competitive and when Falvey was, yet again, completely bewildered by the concept of where you spend money when you have budget constraints, Tom fired him. Even a layperson can understand high floor mid-salary veteran guys who the team is going to play every day doesn't win championships. Tough decisions were needed. Falvey and Zoll didn't make them.

Falvey was incompetent as a GM, and his other half, Zoll seems to have the same mindset.

Tom doesn't make roster decisions, but he fired Falvey because he didn't like Falvey's roster? That makes zero sense.

Here are some direct quotes from T3:

"We will be competitive in 2026,"

"We're in the business of winning baseball games,"

"I’d love to get off this ‘payroll’ thing for a second and let’s get halfway through the year, to the end of the year, and let’s judge the success of this year on wins and losses, on whether we’re playing meaningful baseball in September. "

"My role, I think I'm going to play, if the question is, 'Are you going to be a passive owner or an active owner?' I'd say that I'm going to be an active owner,"

Does that sound like a hands off owner that is delegating everything to Zoll?

Frankly I think it's odd that anyone would insist, without a shred of evidence, that T3 isn't involved in the decision making. Even a layperson can understand what "I'm going to be an active owner" means.

Woof Bronzer · May 4

11 hours ago, bean5302 said:

The owners do not make roster decisions. There's a reason GMs exist. GMs make roster decisions. If you don't like the bullpen, that's not on the Pohlads, that's on Falzoll. Did you expect Tom Pohlad to pick up the phone and start calling agents and signing bullpen arms behind the GM's back?

Do you think setting a payroll number impacts roster decisions?

For example, if T3 would have given Zoll an extra $15mil for the bullpen, would the bullpen look differently?

Man I've become accustomed to strange Pohlad water-carrying over the years but insisting that T3 is a blameless absentee owner is just bizarre and counterfactual. He has literally said he's an active owner! You don't seem to grasp that there is much more to building a roster than picking up the phone and calling agents lol.

bean5302 · May 4

2 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Do you think setting a payroll number impacts roster decisions?

For example, if T3 would have given Zoll an extra $15mil for the bullpen, would the bullpen look differently?

Man I've become accustomed to strange Pohlad water-carrying over the years but insisting that T3 is a blameless absentee owner is just bizarre and counterfactual. He has literally said he's an active owner! You don't seem to grasp that there is much more to building a roster than picking up the phone and calling agents lol.

Tom Pohlad's job is not related to roster management. Thinking the owners are scrubbing toilets, walking the stands as concessions vendors, fixing the HVAC systems, and watering the lawn or doing player evaluations is the equivalent of tying them to player evals and roster decisions. The Pohlads have been bad owners. Joe Pohlad was a bad spokesman. The Pohlads should wear their mistakes, and I've walked the walk on that by not renewing my season tickets. Roster decisions are not the job of the owners. Tom Pohlad has been clear he's not comfortable making baseball decisions. He doesn't have the expertise, but he's active at his job, which is setting ownership goals, philosophies and communicating budgets and overall vision for the franchise. I grasp this.

Payroll constraints have an impact on the roster. Luckily, there are more ways to build rosters or manage payrolls than only free agency. I grasp this.

Trading Pablo Lopez would have freed up $22MM in payroll capacity which could have been used for the bullpen. Trading Walker Jenkins or Emmanuel Rodriguez or Luke Keaschall could have brought back talent to fill other roles, etc. I grasp this.

Falvey was fired because he didn't make the kind of aggressive moves Tom Pohlad wanted. Pohlad has been clear he wishes he was in his role earlier so he could have directed the offseason plan more consistent with his philosophy rather than taking over late in the offseason where options were much more limited. I grasp this.

	TUES	WED	THUR	FRI	SAT	TOT
Orze	0	28	0	33	0	61
Banda	0	22	14	0	18	54
Garcia	23	0	0	9	18	50
Funderburk	15	0	0	0	14	29
Topa	0	0	12	0	10	22
Rogers	0	13	0	8	0	21
Morris	0	0	19	0	0	19
Klein	0	0	0	0	12	12

Sign In

Blue Jays 11, Twins 4: Yuck. Twins Bullpen Surrenders Eight in the Eighth to Lose Yet Again

Twins Video

Follow Twins Daily For Minnesota Twins News & Analysis

Recent Twins Articles

Recent Twins Videos

Community Blogs

Forum Topics

Twins Top Prospects

User Feedback

Recommended Comments

Featured Comments

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Are you optimistic about the Twins right now?