Week 13 vs Cardinals

[TheLeviathan]

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

So I've been critical of the interior OL, and I still am, but I think they need a coaching change. I don't know anything about (checking....) Chris Kuper but I think a lot of the issues is on him because these guys do not look prepared for situational blocking.

Obviously the QB and OL are never going to pick up every blitz pre-snap, but why is it that every delayed blitz up the middle gets through? Why don't the guards or center ever shift off the guy they are blocking to slow down the guy running freely with momentum? You could see it yesterday, they were looking at the blitzer but chose to stick with the lineman they were already engaged with, even though that defender didn't have momentum building towards the QB.

Additionally, our screen passes to the backs seem to never work, and at least yesterday I saw why. The Vikings had four OL out in space to block three defenders. However, none of them engaged until Aaron Jones was already wrapped up. They BEAT the defenders out there. Maybe they were all taught to be mindful of PI and not engage early, but they were not in position nor ready for the catch. Not a single one of the lineman were positioned between Jones and the defenders, and it didn't look like they had a plan for whom each of them should block.

The coaching didn't adjust well to the overload blitzing.  I think they had it fixed in the fourth quarter, but that's entirely too long to figure out how to make a relatively small adjustment.  (Pass blocking schemes are complicated, but you work on many variations you can rotate in and out of depending on the defense you face.  This shouldn't have been that hard.)

I definitely think Bradbury is a problem, but overall our OL has had a really good season.  Brandel is a good guard.  Tackles are still elite.  They really just need a new center.  Most of their issues stem from there.

100% with you on screens.  Our timing and fluency with them has been bad from day one.

[Mike Sixel]

30 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

The coaching didn't adjust well to the overload blitzing.  I think they had it fixed in the fourth quarter, but that's entirely too long to figure out how to make a relatively small adjustment.  (Pass blocking schemes are complicated, but you work on many variations you can rotate in and out of depending on the defense you face.  This shouldn't have been that hard.)

I definitely think Bradbury is a problem, but overall our OL has had a really good season.  Brandel is a good guard.  Tackles are still elite.  They really just need a new center.  Most of their issues stem from there.

100% with you on screens.  Our timing and fluency with them has been bad from day one.

RG is 100% the biggest need on the OL. By far. Then C, then LG. 

I wonder if Rouse can play RG?

[nicksaviking]

31 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

RG is 100% the biggest need on the OL. By far. Then C, then LG. 

I wonder if Rouse can play RG?

I think a good center can make both guards better while a good RG will only help the center as far as interior protection goes. Therefore, while I'd look to replace both, I'd be more interested in a center than RG.

 

[TheLeviathan]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

RG is 100% the biggest need on the OL. By far. Then C, then LG. 

I wonder if Rouse can play RG?

I disagree, the center is also a big part of blitz pickup and identification.  Right now Bradbury doesn't do anything well that we use the C for.  

I think Risner is fine.  I'd even be ok with Ingram if we had a good center.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I disagree, the center is also a big part of blitz pickup and identification.  Right now Bradbury doesn't do anything well that we use the C for.  

I think Risner is fine.  I'd even be ok with Ingram if we had a good center.

Risner is awful Truly. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Mike Sixel said:

Risner is awful Truly. 

What's your basis for that?

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

What's your basis for that?

The fact no one signed him the last two years, that the OL can't pass block when he's in there. 

[Aggies7]

Our old friend Kevin stefanski, feel bad for the guy. Near .500 as a head coach, good considering it’s the browns, but gotta figure he’s got one year left. Bet he’d love to have Sam instead of watson. Could probably do good things together.

[Aggies7]

Tell ya what though, that was a great drive by the browns after that pick 6.

 

*just realized I’ve been posting in the wrong thread. Oops.

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The fact no one signed him the last two years, that the OL can't pass block when he's in there. 

He did have the misfortune of being injured both years though.

I honestly can't say if Risner has been bad or not, but the fact that I haven't noticed him the last three games and I constantly noticed Ingram makes me think Risner has been better.

Bradbury on the other hand gets snowplowed on to his back at least once a game and the uncontested blitzes up the middle were both between Bradbury and Brandel last game. 

Come on Bradburry, what did you think was going to happen with this set up?

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, nicksaviking said:

He did have the misfortune of being injured both years though.

I honestly can't say if Risner has been bad or not, but the fact that I haven't noticed him the last three games and I constantly noticed Ingram makes me think Risner has been better.

Bradbury on the other hand gets snowplowed on to his back at least once a game and the uncontested blitzes up the middle were both between Bradbury and Brandel last game. 

Come on Bradburry, what did you think was going to happen with this set up?

I'm not saying Bradbury is good (which, man, everyone thought he would be when drafted, everyone).

[gunnarthor]

Have to say, I feel better about the win over the Cardinals after reading this. 

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2024/12/2/24311415/thoughts-minnesota-vikings-win-arizona-cardinals

[TheLeviathan]

18 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

The fact no one signed him the last two years, that the OL can't pass block when he's in there. 

FWIW, his PFF grades are pretty good.  I haven't seen the pass rush issues you are I guess.  I felt like it was a schematic failure by the center/QB/coaches on picking up overloads.  I'm not seeing him get dumptrucked like Ingram.

[TheLeviathan]

15 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

He did have the misfortune of being injured both years though.

I honestly can't say if Risner has been bad or not, but the fact that I haven't noticed him the last three games and I constantly noticed Ingram makes me think Risner has been better.

Bradbury on the other hand gets snowplowed on to his back at least once a game and the uncontested blitzes up the middle were both between Bradbury and Brandel last game. 

Come on Bradburry, what did you think was going to happen with this set up?

That right there is evidence of the problem.  I don't know how well people know pass blocking schemes but the Vikings very clearly made the left side go man on man and slid the protection right.  Assuming they call the guy two deep from Risner as the Mike, Bradbury's job IS to slide right and help there with Akers taking the A gap backside from the center.

Now that can all change based on who the Mike was called on, but I think Bradbury is right to assume the back should have that one.  But then it comes back to....how are these calls being made and communicated?  That seems to be the source of the breakdown IMO.

Also, look at the full play:  https://www.azcardinals.com/video/highlight-kyzir-white-goes-unblocked-to-sack-sam-darnold

They sent more guys than we have blockers.  Everybody picked up a target - Bradbury had someone 1:1 and so did Akers.  The only answer to that pressure is a quick hot route and pass.  Sam needs to fire that pass IMMEDIATELY to Addison and it's an easy 1st down.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, TheLeviathan said:

That right there is evidence of the problem.  I don't know how well people know pass blocking schemes but the Vikings very clearly made the left side go man on man and slid the protection right.  Assuming they call the guy two deep from Risner as the Mike, Bradbury's job IS to slide right and help there with Akers taking the A gap backside from the center.

Now that can all change based on who the Mike was called on, but I think Bradbury is right to assume the back should have that one.  But then it comes back to....how are these calls being made and communicated?  That seems to be the source of the breakdown IMO.

Also, look at the full play:  https://www.azcardinals.com/video/highlight-kyzir-white-goes-unblocked-to-sack-sam-darnold

They sent more guys than we have blockers.  Everybody picked up a target - Bradbury had someone 1:1 and so did Akers.  The only answer to that pressure is a quick hot route and pass.  Sam needs to fire that pass IMMEDIATELY to Addison and it's an easy 1st down.

I'm not a pass blocking guru in any sense, but Akers was on the right side, I would think that they'd let the blitzer on the right side come threw for Akers while Bradbury slides to take the guy from the left.

In either case, in those situations, my understanding is that you always pick up the inside guys, let the guy  on the edge come free since he has further to go and the QB can step up in the pocket to buy the extra second.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

FWIW, his PFF grades are pretty good.  I haven't seen the pass rush issues you are I guess.  I felt like it was a schematic failure by the center/QB/coaches on picking up overloads.  I'm not seeing him get dumptrucked like Ingram.

PFF is a joke the last two years, since the founding scouts left. And I'm not saying Ingram is good..... I'm saying they are both bad

[TheLeviathan]

44 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm not a pass blocking guru in any sense, but Akers was on the right side, I would think that they'd let the blitzer on the right side come threw for Akers while Bradbury slides to take the guy from the left.

In either case, in those situations, my understanding is that you always pick up the inside guys, let the guy  on the edge come free since he has further to go and the QB can step up in the pocket to buy the extra second.

Most times you pull that slide the back takes the A gap because the guy blitzing there is a more reliable pickup than a lineman.  Bradbury pulling an audible there to the left only means the guy he picks up comes through at basically the same time.  It was blocked correctly.  It wasn't reacted to correctly by the QB.

Darnold has to see the overload blitz and throw instantly.  It's an easy first down if he does.  That one is 100% on the QB not recognizing the blitz and 0% on the blockers.  (The only caveat is if Bradbury misidentified the mike.  But I don't think he did, Darnold could've taken that snap, fired to Addison)

As the game wore on they changed their protections to have more options for overload blitzes, but the team better be ready to see more of them now that the Cards are on tape getting easy sacks because the coach/QB refuses to throw hot.  (Edit: It's possible Addison didn't get his head around fast enough too)

[TheLeviathan]

6 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

PFF is a joke the last two years, since the founding scouts left. And I'm not saying Ingram is good..... I'm saying they are both bad

I'm not going to die on that hill either way, but I don't see the same struggles you do personally.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I'm not going to die on that hill either way, but I don't see the same struggles you do personally.

Fair. I only get to watch parts of games, so maybe I'm just seeing the bad plays!