An awesome tweet from Dave St. Peter

[John Bonnes]

 

[Mike Sixel]

We can only go by actions. He claimed budget is no limit, he claimed he was going to sign pitching, St. Peter said budget is not an issue....which is it? Does he really think these pitchers are good, or are they cutting cost?

[jokin]

Was there supposed to be an asterisk after the "awesome" characterization or a sarc tag after the OP title?

[Brad Swanson]

I find it very hard to believe that the organization would spend money on players that they didn't think would help the team win. You can argue that their choices may have been misguided or perhaps even incorrect, but they did acquire five significant starting pitchers this off-season.

[Seth Stohs]

I love St. Peter's tweet! That's great.

 

Does the $81 million include Blackburn's $5.5 million?

[jokin]

I love St. Peter's tweet! That's great.

 

Does the $81 million include Blackburn's $5.5 million?

 

Yes.

[Thrylos]

Probably totally in the minority here, but I think that Ryan actually spent too much this season... I'd rather have him do a full rebuild and trade 30+ year old veterans (Morneau, Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Burton - that's a good $25M there) for prospects, instead of signing Correia, Wood and Pelfrey and paying Butera $700K to play in Rochester (that's another $10 M there.)

 

So I wish he spent $35M less this season...

[Mr. Brooks]

Reading the reply from the guy named "Corey" makes me very happy than I'm not on twitter.

What did he even mean by that "fantasy baseball" comment?

One tweet is all I needed from that guy to see that he is just one of those guys who thinks anyone who dares criticize any aspect of the Twins is an idiot who doesn't know anything, and should never question the holyness of the Twins operation.

[ThePuck]

Reading the reply from the guy named "Corey" makes me very happy than I'm not on twitter.

What did he even mean by that "fantasy baseball" comment?

One tweet is all I needed from that guy to see that he is just one of those guys who thinks anyone who dares criticize any aspect of the Twins is an idiot who doesn't know anything, and should never question the holyness of the Twins operation.

 

Like when Gardy does the same thing when someone dares criticize one of his strategic moves? Or our announcers, when defending Gardy and the FO, constantly telling the critical fans they know nothing. That's my favorite right there.

[Mr. Brooks]

Probably totally in the minority here, but I think that Ryan actually spent too much this season... I'd rather have him do a full rebuild and trade 30+ year old veterans (Morneau, Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Burton - that's a good $25M there) for prospects, instead of signing Correia, Wood and Pelfrey and paying Butera $700K to play in Rochester (that's another $10 M there.)

 

So I wish he spent $35M less this season...

 

The problem is that he keeps insisting he's not rebuilding.

If he's not rebuilding, he shouldn't be sitting on that money.

If he IS rebuilding, he shouldn't be signing guys like Correai and Pelfrey.

 

The easy answer is to claim that he is rebuilding, but doesn't want to admit it, which is probably true, BUT:

 

1) If that is true, then why is he toe'ing both sides of the line, with his actions? Why sign Correai for 2 years?

 

2) Why would they be so afraid to admit they are rebuilding? I don't understand why there would/should be any stigma around that word. I think it is something they could embrace. I think the fans proved in the early 2000s that they will embrace a rebuilding team, so I don't understand the fear of admitting it.

I even think, the way he's going about this could backfire. If he keeps telling casual fans that we are not rebuilding, we are going to compete, what is the reaction going to be when we lose ~90 games again? I think they would actually do better in the season ticket sales if they embraced a rebuild, rather then setting the bar high and disappointing for a 3rd consecutive year.

 

I still think its more than likely he is rebuilding, but doesn't want to admit it, but the small percent chance that he honestly doesnt think he is rebuilding, is a somewhat alarming thought.

If sitting on $30 million, and running out this roster REALLY is TR's idea of building a competitive team, then I'm afraid he's lost it, and is wholly incompetent for the job.

[drjim]

Probably totally in the minority here, but I think that Ryan actually spent too much this season... I'd rather have him do a full rebuild and trade 30+ year old veterans (Morneau, Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Burton - that's a good $25M there) for prospects, instead of signing Correia, Wood and Pelfrey and paying Butera $700K to play in Rochester (that's another $10 M there.)

 

So I wish he spent $35M less this season...

 

Pretty sure the Twins can still trade all of those guys this season and there is a good chance that they might even have better markets (this is especially true for Morneau is he is healthy all year and also Burton).

 

They still need to field a team, you can't fill spots with prospects who aren't ready.

[Mr. Brooks]

Pretty sure the Twins can still trade all of those guys this season and there is a good chance that they might even have better markets (this is especially true for Morneau is he is healthy all year and also Burton).

 

They still need to field a team, you can't fill spots with prospects who aren't ready.

 

No, but you can sign AAAA washouts to fill the required positions for the league minimum until the prospects are ready, a la Houston and Miami this year.

[Highabove]

Mike Bern Berardino reports that the actual opening day payroll will be about 73 million.

I believe that Blackburn's salary is being counted, even though he is not on the 40 man roster.

Even an 81 million payroll is smoke and mirrors.

 

 

Minnesota Twins' projected Opening Day payroll: $81 million - TwinCities.com

[kab21]

No, but you can sign AAAA washouts to fill the required positions for the league minimum until the prospects are ready, a la Houston and Miami this year.

 

I think Twins fans can handle rebuilding but I think there would be considerable anger if a complete firesale happened right after opening the new stadium. Those players mentioned will get traded but it will be spread over a season or two (starting this offseason with Span/Revere).

 

I also think people need to come to the reality that Morneau, Carroll, Doumit and Burton likely wouldn't return a any significant prospects at this point. Perhaps Morneau at midseason but Doumit and Burton probably only return a prospect that would rank near the bottom of the Twins top 25. Carroll only gets you minor league filler.

 

I don't think anyone should point to Houston and Miami as examples of what the Twins should be doing. Those franchises could be bad for years and could see their attendance tank this year.

[Mr. Brooks]

I think Twins fans can handle rebuilding but I think there would be considerable anger if a complete firesale happened right after opening the new stadium. Those players mentioned will get traded but it will be spread over a season or two (starting this offseason with Span/Revere).

 

I also think people need to come to the reality that Morneau, Carroll, Doumit and Burton likely wouldn't return a any significant prospects at this point. Perhaps Morneau at midseason but Doumit and Burton probably only return a prospect that would rank near the bottom of the Twins top 25. Carroll only gets you minor league filler.

 

I don't think anyone should point to Houston and Miami as examples of what the Twins should be doing. Those franchises could be bad for years and could see their attendance tank this year.

 

Oh, I agree. I'm not advocating for doing that, just pointing out that there are ways to trade those guys without having to call up prospects too soon.

 

As far as the last paragraph, the Marlins and Astros system's are just as loaded as ours, so the comment that they could be bad for years should apply equally to us.

[kab21]

The difference being that there is a big gap in MLB talent. And that is taking into account that the Twins are bad.

[Mr. Brooks]

The difference being that there is a big gap in MLB talent. And that is taking into account that the Twins are bad.

 

True, but aside from Mauer, most of our MLB talent will be gone by the time the 'specs are up and truly contributing.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

Mike Bern Berardino reports that the actual opening day payroll will be about 73 million.

I believe that Blackburn's salary is being counted, even though he is not on the 40 man roster.

Even an 81 million payroll is smoke and mirrors.

 

 

Minnesota Twins' projected Opening Day payroll: $81 million - TwinCities.com

 

I have the same figure on the R&P page, but I included Capps' buyout. I wouldn't be surprised if payroll dropped next year. I also don't see myself lighting things of fire or throwing things through windows if that happened either. I'll renew my season tickets and still find baseball entertaining.

[Physics Guy]

Nobody should be surprised next year if payroll goes down. As the young guys start to break into the big leagues, they will be making league minimum. If any of Morneau,Willingham or Doumitt were traded, payroll would go down. I think Blackie's salary comes off the books also. Ryan pretty much proved this season he won't spend major money on FA, saving it for extending players we already have. After what is happening to Baker and Marcum, maybe Ryan made the right moves. Here's an excerpt from the New York Times:

 

"So it goes at Mets camp, where the medical rolls keep getting longer. Earlier Tuesday, the Mets said Shaun Marcum, who signed a one-year, $4 million contract to help make up for the loss of R. A. Dickey, would skip his last scheduled start of spring training Thursday. Last week, he received a cortisone shot in his shoulder; now, he apparently has neck pain. Manager Terry Collins said he did not expect Marcum to be with the team at the start of the season because he had not pitched in two weeks."

[Top Gun]

The Mets have devised a plan that might keep Shaun Marcum (neck) off the 15-day disabled list.

 

Marcum would hang back in Port St. Lucie, Florida for about a week and keep stretching himself out and then start for the Mets in the fifth or sixth game of the regular season. The right-hander has been bothered this spring by neck and shoulder discomfort, but doctors have ruled out any structural damage.

[Chance]

I would have been much happier with this offseason minus one move, Corriea. Him and his contract don't make sense if your rebuilding or attempting to compete. Just when I thought the twins were one year away from Blackburn coming off the books they add him. I don't think there is any logical case to be made on this one. You can get a better track record with a brighter future for at the minimum of half the price.

[clutterheart]

Dear Dave St Peter

 

Your downtown office was paid by stealing from the wallets of the Hennepin Cnty Tax Payers. Now your Ownership Group won't invest in players to attempt to draw crowds to support the local businesses.

 

You have cut payroll and have done everything possible to field a team that won't be competitive by July 15th, yet you respond to fan angst with Sarcasm? Stop being a jerk to the fanbase and instead try to build support by owning up to your Front Office failings. You were quite willing to purse your lips and suck at the teat of the tax payer. At the very least you could show some class and stay quiet when the Fans complain about your owner's cheapness.

 

I am sure you will get nice profitability bonuses - why don't you give that back to the County?

 

Disgustedly Yours,

Ex-Hen Cnty Tax Payer

[kab21]

True, but aside from Mauer, most of our MLB talent will be gone by the time the 'specs are up and truly contributing.

 

It is a much more difficult process when you are starting with a team that has 55 win talent. You also destroy your fanbase at the same time and it would be very difficult to draw enough fans that support a 100M payroll regardless of the new stadium.

[Mike Sixel]

Dear Dave St Peter

 

Your downtown office was paid by stealing from the wallets of the Hennepin Cnty Tax Payers. Now your Ownership Group won't invest in players to attempt to draw crowds to support the local businesses.

 

You have cut payroll and have done everything possible to field a team that won't be competitive by July 15th, yet you respond to fan angst with Sarcasm? Stop being a jerk to the fanbase and instead try to build support by owning up to your Front Office failings. You were quite willing to purse your lips and suck at the teat of the tax payer. At the very least you could show some class and stay quiet when the Fans complain about your owner's cheapness.

 

I am sure you will get nice profitability bonuses - why don't you give that back to the County?

 

Disgustedly Yours,

Ex-Hen Cnty Tax Payer

 

My feelings exactly, except I still live in Hennepin county, and subsidize Seth's tickets and everyone else's too, even though these are supposedly the MN Twins, not the Hennepin county Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Nobody should be surprised next year if payroll goes down. As the young guys start to break into the big leagues, they will be making league minimum. If any of Morneau,Willingham or Doumitt were traded, payroll would go down. I think Blackie's salary comes off the books also. Ryan pretty much proved this season he won't spend major money on FA, saving it for extending players we already have. After what is happening to Baker and Marcum, maybe Ryan made the right moves.

 

I'm actually okay with payroll going down in some situations. If the Twins post a 75 win season in 2013, the kids look promising, Morneau falters, and they have a clear path forward, I'd deal with a drop in payroll short-term to let the kids play.

 

But when the team is coming off 90+ loss seasons, it's really hard to swallow a payroll drop when there are so many glaring holes on this roster. The middle infield was ignored. The rotation was patch-worked together (being quite generous).

 

And while the Mets and Cubs are having issues with their FA pitchers, look at the Twins. They're not doing any better. Pelfrey is a huge question mark. Harden isn't ready. Diamond is hurt and will miss a few weeks. Deduno has a groin issue. This rotation could be on the fast track to repeating 2012 with an injury to Worley.

[jokin]

I'm actually okay with payroll going down in some situations. If the Twins post a 75 win season in 2013, the kids look promising, Morneau falters, and they have a clear path forward, I'd deal with a drop in payroll short-term to let the kids play.

 

But when the team is coming off 90+ loss seasons, it's really hard to swallow a payroll drop when there are so many glaring holes on this roster. The middle infield was ignored. The rotation was patch-worked together (being quite generous).

 

And while the Mets and Cubs are having issues with their FA pitchers, look at the Twins. They're not doing any better. Pelfrey is a huge question mark. Harden isn't ready. Diamond is hurt and will miss a few weeks. Deduno has a groin issue. This rotation could be on the fast track to repeating 2012 with an injury to Worley.

 

Well stated. I don't mind cutting the payroll if there were cheap alternatives ready to begin their apprenticeship, but as you pointed out, there are glaring areas in need where they don't even have apprentices ready to get out on the field and take their lumps like the early-to-mid-80s Twins teams. In addition to the positions you mentioned, the Twins still need to address issues like:

1) acquiring a long-term full-time replacement at catcher,

2) the jury is still out on 3B- both in regards to the short-term with Plouffe- and the long-term with Sano

3) the same scenario goes with Dozier and Rosario at 2B

4) the Twins ongoing and glaring indifference to strengthening and adding depth at the most important field position, SS, is mind-boggling

 

Regarding the pitching staff, I would set the Over/Under at 2.5 for "Full Maloneys". The offseason "bolstering" was clearly unacceptable given the Twins personnel and financial situations. That's why myopic national writers who write articles like this are annoying:

 

Richard Justice: Terry Ryan pitching in to help Twins return to contention | twinsbaseball.com: News

[jokin]

I have the same figure on the R&P page, but I included Capps' buyout. I wouldn't be surprised if payroll dropped next year. I also don't see myself lighting things of fire or throwing things through windows if that happened either. I'll renew my season tickets and still find baseball entertaining.

 

Exactly right, a payroll as low as $55M is easy to envision in 2014. Tread carefully on this topic though, the pitchfork and torches crew subculture on TD has called for banning for uttering such heresies in the past.

[John Bonnes]

Perfectly stated Brock. The problem isn't that a team can never cut payroll. The problem is that the Twins did so despite glaring holes and other, better options.

 

I loved the tweet because the Twins have been consistent on this message: Ryan had the money, he just didn't spend it. It isn't what Ryan DID that's so egregious (other than Correia). It's what Ryan DIDN'T do that's so egregious.

[jokin]

Perfectly stated Brock. The problem isn't that a team can never cut payroll. The problem is that the Twins did so despite glaring holes and other, better options.

 

I loved the tweet because the Twins have been consistent on this message: Ryan had the money, he just didn't spend it. It isn't what Ryan DID that's so egregious (other than Correia). It's what Ryan DIDN'T do that's so egregious.

 

Is there a way an intrepid reporter can discover how significantly St Peter and Ryan personally benefit by not spending available dollars? If there was a trust fund set up for excess revenues that is dedicated for doling out on payroll, say over a 5-year span, this off-season set of maneuvers (or lack thereof) would be easier to swallow. But as it stands, it appears that no monies "saved" in one year actually accrue to a forward point in time when the monies could theoretically be put to use more wisely. One can only assume that the "cost savings" end up in FO executive bonus packages and into the owners pockets- thus making St Peters' comment insulting to a community that publicly financed his sandbox.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Don Baylor was an important part of the 1987 Twins. So were guys with names like Bert Blyleven and Joe Neikro.

 

A youth movement does not mean that there can be no players with some years behind them. Let's not trade Morneau before we are sure we can do better. If we keep him the payroll could still go down. (Blackburn + Pelfrey = $9.5 million)