Max Kepler, Utility Outfielder?

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, yeahyabetcha said:

What benefit does moving Polanco off of second base provide?  Does he not look like a good 2022 option there to you?

Who plays SS?  I get the sense the organization doesn't believe in Gordon there.

[Brock Beauchamp]

4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Who plays SS?  I get the sense the organization doesn't believe in Gordon there.

While I agree, I think I’d still put Gordon at short a lot in 2021 just to see what you have and to make sure he gets reps.

If wins don’t matter, why not run Gordon out there?

[yeahyabetcha]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Who plays SS?  I get the sense the organization doesn't believe in Gordon there.

For this year?  Since the only real SS on the roster is Simmons, maybe trading him for a bag of balls or whatever outer fringe prospect some team is willing to give up isn’t  a great idea

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, yeahyabetcha said:

For this year?  Since the only real SS on the roster is Simmons, maybe trading him for a bag of balls or whatever outer fringe prospect some team is willing to give up isn’t  a great idea

I don't share your concern with whether we win 70 games vs. 72.

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

While I agree, I think I’d still put Gordon at short a lot in 2021 just to see what you have and to make sure he gets reps.

If wins don’t matter, why not run Gordon out there?

I'm good with that, I was just making a prediction based on the organization's patterns combined with who I'd like to see jettisoned for something, or anything, of value.

[yeahyabetcha]

14 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I don't share your concern with whether we win 70 games vs. 72.

And neither do I share your desire to be in forever rebuild mode

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, yeahyabetcha said:

And neither do I share your desire to be in forever rebuild mode

How does hanging on to Cruz, Simmons, Pineda, Donaldson, and Buxton do anything for the team?  Three of them aren't coming back and the other two are rarely on the field.  

You're chasing windmills standing pat.

[Vanimal46]

2 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

How does hanging on to Cruz, Simmons, Pineda, Donaldson, and Buxton do anything for the team?  Three of them aren't coming back and the other two are rarely on the field.  

You're chasing windmills standing pat.

Eventually all 5 will be off the team, but I’d like a longer time frame to accomplish it than July 31. That’s AJ Preller type of activity. I don’t know if our FO will be that aggressive to decimate this year’s team. 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Eventually all 5 will be off the team, but I’d like a longer time frame to accomplish it than July 31. That’s AJ Preller type of activity. I don’t know if our FO will be that aggressive to decimate this year’s team. 

Ok, I can understand the hesitancy that it will happen.  What about whether or not it should happen?

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

Ok, I can understand the hesitancy that it will happen.  What about whether or not it should happen?

I have no problem flipping the expiring contracts. That’s what Falvey and Levine have done every year they’re not in contention. I’d feel more comfortable making the Donaldson/Buxton decisions in the offseason. There’s not a ton of valuable info to gather from Arraez at 3B and Celestino at CF full time this year. Other than we need someone better to fill those spots in 2022. 

[yeahyabetcha]

12 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

How does hanging on to Cruz, Simmons, Pineda, Donaldson, and Buxton do anything for the team?  Three of them aren't coming back and the other two are rarely on the field.  

You're chasing windmills standing pat.

If able to trade for value go for it.  But I don’t find it wise to just dump them.

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

I have no problem flipping the expiring contracts. That’s what Falvey and Levine have done every year they’re not in contention. I’d feel more comfortable making the Donaldson/Buxton decisions in the offseason. There’s not a ton of valuable info to gather from Arraez at 3B and Celestino at CF full time this year. Other than we need someone better to fill those spots in 2022. 

I would suggest the reason to move on Donaldson and Buxton now, if it's even possible now, is that they're on the field and have value to a contender.  I'm generally in agreement that the offseason is a better time to make a trade, these guys have some serious durability issues that narrow the window of value.  Plus, in Buxton's case, team control narrows the longer you wait.

I'm not moving these guys because we have to see Arraez at 3B as much as just moving on from what it makes sense to move on from.

[TheLeviathan]

2 minutes ago, yeahyabetcha said:

If able to trade for value go for it.  But I don’t find it wise to just dump them.

Well, I never suggested dumping them.  I expressed hope that we'd have found deals and moved on by Aug 1.  For three of those guys value might just be a lottery ticket and I'd be cool with that.

[Vanimal46]

4 minutes ago, TheLeviathan said:

I would suggest the reason to move on Donaldson and Buxton now, if it's even possible now, is that they're on the field and have value to a contender.  I'm generally in agreement that the offseason is a better time to make a trade, these guys have some serious durability issues that narrow the window of value.  Plus, in Buxton's case, team control narrows the longer you wait.

I'm not moving these guys because we have to see Arraez at 3B as much as just moving on from what it makes sense to move on from.

Re: Buxton. I’m skeptical that the difference in return is that wide between 1.5 years vs 1 year vs .5 years of control. The risk remains the same for the opposing team trading for him. He could get hurt at any moment on the field. Plus, I’d rather enjoy the rare moments he is healthy and changing games. I don’t think Celestino will come close to the WAR value Buxton provides this year, next year, the following year… 

 

In regards to Donaldson, I think it will come down to how much the Twins have to eat of the remaining contract to get a decent prospect. If we need to eat ~50% of the deal, why not wait until the offseason and save a couple mill in dead money? 

[TheLeviathan]

1 minute ago, Vanimal46 said:

Re: Buxton. I’m skeptical that the difference in return is that wide between 1.5 years vs 1 year vs .5 years of control. The risk remains the same for the opposing team trading for him. He could get hurt at any moment on the field. Plus, I’d rather enjoy the rare moments he is healthy and changing games. I don’t think Celestino will come close to the WAR value Buxton provides this year, next year, the following year… 

 

In regards to Donaldson, I think it will come down to how much the Twins have to eat of the remaining contract to get a decent prospect. If we need to eat ~50% of the deal, why not wait until the offseason and save a couple mill in dead money? 

Sounds like Buxton is all about sentiment for you,   I'm just over it, it's time to move on.  But that's where I'm at.

I think the value you have to throw in for Donaldson depends on a contender who needs a 3B.  Maybe that same perception of need will exist in December, but then you're competing with free agency.  I don't want to hand either of these guys away for nothing though.

[Vanimal46]

9 hours ago, TheLeviathan said:

Sounds like Buxton is all about sentiment for you,   I'm just over it, it's time to move on.  But that's where I'm at.

I think the value you have to throw in for Donaldson depends on a contender who needs a 3B.  Maybe that same perception of need will exist in December, but then you're competing with free agency.  I don't want to hand either of these guys away for nothing though.

I don’t think it’s sentiment for Buxton. I truly don’t think the delta is that wide trading him now or a year from now. Everyone can look and see he has played over 100 games once. Won’t happen this year again. Why would another team give a significantly better prospect this year knowing the risk? 

[TheLeviathan]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

I don’t think it’s sentiment for Buxton. I truly don’t think the delta is that wide trading him now or a year from now. Everyone can look and see he has played over 100 games once. Won’t happen this year again. Why would another team give a significantly better prospect this year knowing the risk? 

Because you mitigate some of that risk, or loss of value, with more team control.

It's no worry anyway, he couldn't even stay healthy until June 30th much less the deadline.

[Vanimal46]

Of course, all of this is hypothetical because he’s hurt… Again. Sigh.