Article: Under-Delivering

[lightfoot789]

I conceed. I might be reaching with my philosophy, but I will continue to believe in management and it's unmotivating attempt to make the Twins better. I'm a beleiver / optomist. Some of these FA pitchers will pan out and prove most of these fans wrong. I see a (2011) Pirates start to the season and a late fade. Our hitters will hit and our young guys (Hicks / Plouffe / Parmelee) will flourish. Arms will have to find a way to hold on for the long run (unlikely). I see Twins fans at least staying engaged til July. These negative vibes are sure to show its face in the stands. We need True Believers (Faith)!! and yes Blind Faith!!!

[TheLeviathan]

I conceed. I might be reaching with my philosophy, but I will continue to believe in management and it's unmotivating attempt to make the Twins better. I'm a beleiver / optomist. Some of these FA pitchers will pan out and prove most of these fans wrong. I see a (2011) Pirates start to the season and a late fade. Our hitters will hit and our young guys (Hicks / Plouffe / Parmelee) will flourish. Arms will have to find a way to hold on for the long run (unlikely). I see Twins fans at least staying engaged til July. These negative vibes are sure to show its face in the stands. We need True Believers (Faith)!! and yes Blind Faith!!!

 

You know what blind belief achieves? Nothing. Valid criticism born out of caring about a team can at least spur a team to make changes to the way it operates

[lightfoot789]

I'm just looking for 1 or 2 board bloggers who believe in management. Wow

These negative vibes from most, can't be too helpful for a cities morale. All I hear is "here we go again fans"

You just made the playoffs 2 or 3 years ago. Wow

Is this why the Vikes and Timberwolves struggle with consistency?

"Conditioning for failure (Fans) is a contagious trait."

[TheLeviathan]

I'm just looking for 1 or 2 board bloggers who believe in management. Wow

These negative vibes from most, can't be too helpful for a cities morale. All I hear is "here we go again fans"

You just made the playoffs 2 or 3 years ago. Wow

Is this why the Vikes and Timberwolves struggle with consistency?

"Conditioning for failure (Fans) is a contagious trait."

 

..........

[snepp]

I'd have to say the Twins are the ones that have done the conditioning, I'm just following their lead.

[lightfoot789]

And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.

[TheLeviathan]

And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.

 

So rather than criticize mistakes as they are obviously happening, we should wait several years until they build on top of each other again and again before we voice our displeasure? Exactly when does one reach this threshold for criticism in this rather insane view of yours?

[old nurse]

And why is your criticism valid - because you're a fan? If Twins sucked for decades (Wolves), I would understand and if this GM (TR) was your head guy for years - I would understand and if he made no moves to make your team an eventual winner (just didn't show he cared), I would understand. Patience is a virtue. You could be the Royals or Pirates organization. Trying hard with same results and hanging up those 9th place medals (Meet the Flockers). You have at least won in recent years and know the formula.

The Twins had a heck of a good run. As Janet Jackson once said "what have you done lately" If Pelfey comes back as a WAR of 3 like 08 and 10, if Gibson pitches as well as he did in the minors when health (fip around 3, fans would be ecstatic with a ml around 3.5) and if Worley pitches like he did in 2011. Diamond needs to stay about the same and Correia does his tiny bit above replacement level. Mighty big ifs, but 3 of the first 4 you might find happier fans here. Please note, If, not when. Optimism says it could happen, the last two years leads fans to believe not with the Twins luck. If Blackburn rediscovers his sinker. Nah, thats getting into fantasyland.

[old nurse]

Considering what Miami received for Sanchez, and to a lesser extent Buerhle and Johnson, could the Twins pull of a trade for Nolasco?

[Guest USAFChief]

I have to start paying closer attention to the Twins offseason moves. I totally missed them picking up Dan Haren.

[johnnydakota]

Considering what Miami received for Sanchez, and to a lesser extent Buerhle and Johnson, could the Twins pull of a trade for Nolasco?

 

Id have to look up his stats , but isnt he carry a 4.50 ERA? i think he is around 8Ks/9 but does he have a winning record?isnt he just a more expensive Correia

[ThePuck]

Id have to look up his stats , but isnt he carry a 4.50 ERA? i think he is around 8Ks/9 but does he have a winning record?isnt he just a more expensive Correia

 

He seems to be one of the players that got a rep he didn't deserve after one fine season.

[Benchwarmerjim]

the Twins never sign big time free agents (1991 excluded)

so until they show that they will actually go out and sign people year after year, I never believe what comes out of the Front Office.

[ThePuck]

the Twins never sign big time free agents (1991 excluded)

so until they show that they will actually go out and sign people year after year, I never believe what comes out of the Front Office.

 

But there's always been a legitimate reason :-)

[lightfoot789]

No one on this board can say they would have been Championship optimistic if they were the White Sox Fans or A's Fans or Oriole's Fans during the preseason in 2012. and see what happened? Positive things occured with all thier moves. Hell the A's traded thier best pitcher and still won!

 

Would you honestly have been happy if you were a Marlins Fan with all those expensive free agents last year? and see what happened?

 

Sometimes we have to trust management and thier plan. 2 years people - 2 years

[ThePuck]

No one on this board can say they would have been Championship optimistic if they were the White Sox Fans or A's Fans or Oriole's Fans during the preseason in 2012. and see what happened? Positive things occured with all thier moves. Hell the A's traded thier best pitcher and still won!

 

Would you honestly have been happy if you were a Marlins Fan with all those expensive free agents last year? and see what happened?

 

Sometimes we have to trust management and thier plan. 2 years people - 2 years

 

By two years do you mean you think we'll be legitimate contenders in two years?

[Benchwarmerjim]

But there's always been a legitimate reason :-)

 

damn you, Metrodome roof!!!!

[Brock Beauchamp]

No one on this board can say they would have been Championship optimistic if they were the White Sox Fans or A's Fans or Oriole's Fans during the preseason in 2012. and see what happened? Positive things occured with all thier moves. Hell the A's traded thier best pitcher and still won!

 

Would you honestly have been happy if you were a Marlins Fan with all those expensive free agents last year? and see what happened?

 

Sometimes we have to trust management and thier plan. 2 years people - 2 years

 

You would have had a legendary career as a musician on the Titanic.

[old nurse]

He seems to be one of the players that got a rep he didn't deserve after one fine season.

If the team could identify a soon to be free agent pitcher that is just below what that team would make a qualifying offer for and trade for them before the season started. The team might trade cheaply rather than risk losing them for nothing. The Twins make a qualifying offer and either have a decent pitcher for another year or a draft pick that could land a better prospect than the sum of what they gave up. Nolasco came to mind because Miami might be that kind of team willing to make a trade.

[Top Gun]

Nolasco is just not a go pitcher and it would take a top 5 prospect.

[RodneyKline]

All I expect for buying them a new stadium is for them to put a team on the field that looks like it can win the division every year. So to answer the question someone threw out there, yes I would be happy if I was a fan of the Angels in 2012. Angel management did everything they could (actually way more than they needed to) to field a winner. TR is not even trying to field a winner because he is way too cheap. I do not blame the Pohlads because unless they are saying things behind the scenes that they are not saying in public, I believe that they will pay what it takes to field a winner. They are just not being asked to do it since Billy Smith asked them to go to $115m in 2010. They did it without hesitation.

[Top Gun]

That's true! It is Ryan to blame. He can talk but can he walk?

[twinsnorth49]

All I expect for buying them a new stadium is for them to put a team on the field that looks like it can win the division every year. So to answer the question someone threw out there, yes I would be happy if I was a fan of the Angels in 2012. Angel management did everything they could (actually way more than they needed to) to field a winner. TR is not even trying to field a winner because he is way too cheap. I do not blame the Pohlads because unless they are saying things behind the scenes that they are not saying in public, I believe that they will pay what it takes to field a winner. They are just not being asked to do it since Billy Smith asked them to go to $115m in 2010. They did it without hesitation.

 

Just to nitpick, payroll was 97 million in 2010 and went to 112 million in 2011 and we all saw how that turned out.

 

Before the free spenders all over-react I'm just pointing out a fact not defending the Twins lack of spending this off-season. Although as long as we're pointing fingers, to not implicate the Pohlads as part of payroll going down is pretty naive.

[johnnydakota]

This is consistent with the past two seasons and likely 2013. The pitching was not only ineffective, but Twins-developed pitchers were typically below par (in MLB) with respect to: pickoffs, holding baserunners, and fielding their position. It seems as if the franchise treated pitchers as a lower priority than the other positions.

 

So your saying they spent to much time teaching the young batters to bunt? but i think your correct in thinking that there is a lack of teaching and developing in the minors, i just think it is not just pitching that is lacking

[johnnydakota]

No one on this board can say they would have been Championship optimistic if they were the White Sox Fans or A's Fans or Oriole's Fans during the preseason in 2012. and see what happened? Positive things occured with all thier moves. Hell the A's traded thier best pitcher and still won!

 

Would you honestly have been happy if you were a Marlins Fan with all those expensive free agents last year? and see what happened?

 

Sometimes we have to trust management and thier plan. 2 years people - 2 years

Gordon , is that you? step away from the pipe =)

[johnnydakota]

All I expect for buying them a new stadium is for them to put a team on the field that looks like it can win the division every year. So to answer the question someone threw out there, yes I would be happy if I was a fan of the Angels in 2012. Angel management did everything they could (actually way more than they needed to) to field a winner. TR is not even trying to field a winner because he is way too cheap. I do not blame the Pohlads because unless they are saying things behind the scenes that they are not saying in public, I believe that they will pay what it takes to field a winner. They are just not being asked to do it since Billy Smith asked them to go to $115m in 2010. They did it without hesitation.

 

And now Bill is inspecting toilets in South American stadiums.....

[johnnydakota]

Amen , if Pohlads wanted a winner they would have a winner....instead they want profit , so they have profit.

Just like Hal in Spankee land the kids only care about money

[ThePuck]

If the team could identify a soon to be free agent pitcher that is just below what that team would make a qualifying offer for and trade for them before the season started. The team might trade cheaply rather than risk losing them for nothing. The Twins make a qualifying offer and either have a decent pitcher for another year or a draft pick that could land a better prospect than the sum of what they gave up. Nolasco came to mind because Miami might be that kind of team willing to make a trade.

That makes a lot of sense. I wonder how many teams use that strategy consistently,or at all. Only issue is qualifying offers are at was , what, about 13M? Someone like Nolasco would probably jump on that, and probably wouldn't be worth it.

 

Still, though...for the right kind of player that'd be a good strategy.

[ThePuck]

Just to nitpick, payroll was 97 million in 2010 and went to 112 million in 2011 and we all saw how that turned out.

 

Before the free spenders all over-react I'm just pointing out a fact not defending the Twins lack of spending this off-season. Although as long as we're pointing fingers, to not implicate the Pohlads as part of payroll going down is pretty naive.

 

In an interview with Jim Pohlad himself in Feb'10, it was mentioned that although normal policy is to have around 50% of revenue for payroll, during rebuilding years, it goes down quite a bit. So why is it naive to think that the Pohlads policy dictates drop payroll during rebuilding years, as we are in now?

[twinsnorth49]

In an interview with Jim Pohlad himself in Feb'10, it was mentioned that although normal policy is to have around 50% of revenue for payroll, during rebuilding years, it goes down quite a bit. So why is it naive to think that the Pohlads policy dictates drop payroll during rebuilding years, as we are in now?

 

Read the post I was responding to. The poster indicated the Pohlads are willing to spend on a winner but it's Ryan's fault for not spending the money, that's just more than a little naive IMO.