Duffey is done... right?

[Mr. Brooks]

He is an excellent pitcher if he has command. Not a whole lot different than Berrios. Or any different than a whole lot of other pitchers who have stuff. Last year I said he was every bit as good as Blyleven which some here considered blasphemy but I stand by it. Last year his command of his fast ball was very good and his curveball had a little more bite and downward motion, imo. For one year Diamond had a great curve ball also. Blyleven never pitched much better than Diamond in 2012 or Duffey last year. What made him great was that he pitched that well for 20 years. Duffey, Berrios, Meyer and May are all very capable with very good stuff but command is half the equation.

I'm sorry but having a good 10 game streak doesn't make Duffey as good as Blyleven.

Which hall of Famers is Grossman as good as, based on the hot streak he had?

[Dantes929]

 

I'm sorry but having a good 10 game streak doesn't make Duffey as good as Blyleven.
Which hall of Famers is Grossman as good as, based on the hot streak he had?

Way to twist my words.     Duffey's ERA was 3.10 last year which is better than Blyleven's career numbers.  His strikeouts per 9 was better than all but one of Bert's years.   Doesn't make him a HOFer but its nothing Blyleven would be ashamed of.     There are hundreds of hitters capable of a month long hot streak so no. I don't care to compare Grossman to any HOFers.     Not a lot of pitchers capable of a 2.25 ERA over 9 games.     Its no insult to Blyleven to say that a lot of pitchers have been as good as him for long stretches of time.    His glory was in being that good for a really long time..

[Brandon Warne]

 

Way to twist my words.     Duffey's ERA was 3.10 last year which is better than Blyleven's career numbers.  His strikeouts per 9 was better than all but one of Bert's years.   Doesn't make him a HOFer but its nothing Blyleven would be ashamed of.     There are hundreds of hitters capable of a month long hot streak so no. I don't care to compare Grossman to any HOFers.     Not a lot of pitchers capable of a 2.25 ERA over 9 games.     Its no insult to Blyleven to say that a lot of pitchers have been as good as him for long stretches of time.    His glory was in being that good for a really long time..

 

Not really fair to compare strikeouts per nine when considering the difference in eras there. Blyleven's best year of K/9 was 8.0. Ricky Nolasco this year is right around there at 7.8. Times change, yo.

[alarp33]

 

Way to twist my words.     Duffey's ERA was 3.10 last year which is better than Blyleven's career numbers.  His strikeouts per 9 was better than all but one of Bert's years.   Doesn't make him a HOFer but its nothing Blyleven would be ashamed of.     There are hundreds of hitters capable of a month long hot streak so no. I don't care to compare Grossman to any HOFers.     Not a lot of pitchers capable of a 2.25 ERA over 9 games.     Its no insult to Blyleven to say that a lot of pitchers have been as good as him for long stretches of time.    His glory was in being that good for a really long time..

 

Buddy Boshers 2016: 0.90 ERA  9.9 k/9

 

Mariano Rivera  2.21 ERA  8.2 k/9  (career)

 

I'm not saying Boshers is better, but its a conversation

[Dantes929]

 

Not really fair to compare strikeouts per nine when considering the difference in eras there. Blyleven's best year of K/9 was 8.0. Ricky Nolasco this year is right around there at 7.8. Times change, yo.

You are right.   I respect what Blyleven did but do not put him on a pedestal.    He wasn't usually considered the ace on any staff but he was very good for very long.   It is no insult to him to say Duffey was as good as him last year.    Duffey threw his fastball with movement on the corners and had a curveball that broke every bit as much and just as sharp as Blyleven's which is why I say the talent is there.    You are right about the strikeout thing and I really don't care all that much about strikeouts.   I am fine with pitching to contact if done well.  Right now Duffey is not doing it well and right now Duffey is not pitching as well as Blyleven which is my whole point.   Blyleven is talked about because he pitched well for years.  Not because he was spectacular in any one given year.    I just said Duffey had talent.  Not that he was going to be an HOFer.

[Dantes929]

 

Buddy Boshers 2016: 0.90 ERA  9.9 k/9

 

Mariano Rivera  2.21 ERA  8.2 k/9  (career)

 

I'm not saying Boshers is better, but its a conversation

I like it.  Rivera would not be ashamed of the 10 inning stretch that Boshers has had.  If Bosher gets an expanded roll and continues with the .9 ERA and strikeout totals for the rest of the year I would have no problem saying Bosher pitched as well as Rivera this year.   Doesn't mean I would be in favor of locking him up for the next 6 years for a 100 mil.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

There are hundreds of hitters capable of a month long hot streak so no. I don't care to compare Grossman to any HOFers.     Not a lot of pitchers capable of a 2.25 ERA over 9 games.

9 starts is closer to 1.5-2 months, so it is a longer sample than Grossman and would probably produce fewer matches, but I think you are exaggerating the difference if you think Duffey's 9 starts are that much more significant than Grossman's month.

 

I'm not a B-Ref Play Index subscriber or wizard, so I won't have a complete list of names, but just poking around, I quickly found Drew Pomeranz who had a 1.70 ERA after 9 starts this year; someone named Matt Andriese who had a 2.82 ERA this year after 7 starts and got bounced to Tampa's bullpen. Kendall Graveman had a 1.78 ERA for a 9 start stretch last summer; Nate Karns had a 2.54 ERA over 13 starts then too.  Mike Bolsinger had a 2.25 ERA for his first 8 starts of 2015.

 

For a Twins example, last year Mike Pelfrey had a 2.28 ERA after his first 11 starts.  Sam Deduno had a 2.66 ERA over an 11 start stretch in 2013.  Etc.

 

Not saying these guys are all comparable to Duffey, but there is nothing that special in Duffey's 9 start performance last year to warrant a comparison with a HOF like Blyleven over the countless other pitchers with similar results over 9 start stretches.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Number of seasons Bert Blyleven had a higher ERA+ than 2012 Scott Diamond: 13

 

Number of seasons Bert Blyleven had a higher ERA+ than PARTIAL SEASON 2015 Tyler Duffey: 7

 

So, Blyleven had roughly 2600 innings better than anything Scott Diamond did in 2012 and roughly 1400 innings better than anything Duffey did in 2015 (using a 200 IP baseline for Blyleven, which is generous to Diamond/Duffey because Bert pitched 4900 innings in 22 seasons).

 

Yeah, so this comparison is ridiculous.

[Willihammer]

They are 3 current or former Twins pitchers who leaned heavily on curveballs. I'm guessing Dantes was in a roundabout way addressing the argument that a 2-pitch pitcher can't succeed as a starter.

 

Duffey does throw a changeup but obviously that is a work in progress at best. Diamond had a third pitch too (changeup). Did Bert throw a third pitch?

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

I think its worth considering switching roles for Duffey and May. It might be more of the same for the two of them, but I think its worth finding out for real. That way you still have a young guy with decent stuff/upside in the pen and rotation.

 

The difference from starter to reliever might actually be greater for Duffey than it is for May. I think Duffey could be devestating out of the pen, if he were to increase his FB a few ticks and be mean with his curve. May has more pitches suited for starting than does Duffey. Maybe they both belong in the pen, but we don't have a lot of good young starting options...even in the future IMO- I refuse to buy into Stewart, G, and Jorge being anything of MLB top #3 pitchers...just don't see it.

 

 

[Dantes929]

 

Number of seasons Bert Blyleven had a higher ERA+ than 2012 Scott Diamond: 13

 

Number of seasons Bert Blyleven had a higher ERA+ than PARTIAL SEASON 2015 Tyler Duffey: 7

 

So, Blyleven had roughly 2600 innings better than anything Scott Diamond did in 2012 and roughly 1400 innings better than anything Duffey did in 2015 (using a 200 IP baseline for Blyleven, which is generous to Diamond/Duffey because Bert pitched 4900 innings in 22 seasons).

 

Yeah, so this comparison is ridiculous.

Except I am not comparing careers.     I only picked Duffey and Diamond because they had decent fastballs that they had good command over and Diamond had a good curveball and Duffey a great curveball.       If you are saying Blyleven had 7 better seasons and 1400 better innings than Duffey's partial season then that leaves 15 seasons and 3500 innings where he did as well or worse.    I don't know how many ways to say this.   IMO, the league did not figure out Duffey.    He is simply not throwing as well.    He has the talent to do so again but that is up to him.     Blyleven did it for 22 seasons.  That was to his credit and why he is in the HOF.    How can i make comparisons on how and what they throw   at a given time and how can I do it without having people compare their entire careers  and calling it ridiculous?    Bert compared Duffey to himself many times last year.     I have not said Duffey is a HOFer.

[Dantes929]

 

9 starts is closer to 1.5-2 months, so it is a longer sample than Grossman and would probably produce fewer matches, but I think you are exaggerating the difference if you think Duffey's 9 starts are that much more significant than Grossman's month.

 

I'm not a B-Ref Play Index subscriber or wizard, so I won't have a complete list of names, but just poking around, I quickly found Drew Pomeranz who had a 1.70 ERA after 9 starts this year; someone named Matt Andriese who had a 2.82 ERA this year after 7 starts and got bounced to Tampa's bullpen. Kendall Graveman had a 1.78 ERA for a 9 start stretch last summer; Nate Karns had a 2.54 ERA over 13 starts then too.  Mike Bolsinger had a 2.25 ERA for his first 8 starts of 2015.

 

For a Twins example, last year Mike Pelfrey had a 2.28 ERA after his first 11 starts.  Sam Deduno had a 2.66 ERA over an 11 start stretch in 2013.  Etc.

 

Not saying these guys are all comparable to Duffey, but there is nothing that special in Duffey's 9 start performance last year to warrant a comparison with a HOF like Blyleven over the countless other pitchers with similar results over 9 start stretches.

The comparisons were to Blyleven because of the quality of pitches Duffey had last year.    I find it odd  that people don't think a guy's curveball can't be as good for one season as Bert's was for 22.  Its not that remarkable.   The remarkable thing was Bert doing it for that long.  

I concede the small sample evidence though.    You are right that there was nothing unique about Duffey's season, last year, good as it was.     Deduno was a good comp because he is another guy that had a lot of stuff but was held back because of command.    Nothing unique about that.    I just see people jumping off the band wagon because of a bad stretch.    They will jump back on after a good stretch.   Its up to Duffey to have that good stretch.    

[Otto von Ballpark]

The comparisons were to Blyleven because of the quality of pitches Duffey had last year. I find it odd that people don't think a guy's curveball can't be as good for one season as Bert's was for 22. Its not that remarkable.

Then why did you remark upon it? Just kidding, I get the curveball comparison. I was only taking issue with the suggestion that Duffey's 9 starts were significantly more meaningful than Grossman's month.