Dodgers interested in Willingham

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm not sure I aggressively shop either of them - but reports from a couple people in town are that Willingham is considered the best trade piece on the team right now. I entertain offers for that and I don't hesitate to pull the trigger out of concern for public relations, future free agents, or anything else if the offer is right.

Then we're not disagreeing at all. I'm fine with trading Willingham if the deal is right. I'm just not sure you'll get the right deal after 1/2 a season when Josh was available to every team in MLB last December and no one signed him.

 

And given Revere's play, Span is more expendable so I think trading him is the smart thing to do. If we're lucky, within a year we'll be talking about trading Revere as well.

[kab21]

It is strange, but this park plays perfectly to him, far better than Oakland.

 

I'm still worried we're going to pause pulling this trigger and we'll see 300 ABs-a-year Hammer return and we'll have missed the boat on his best value.

He played in Oakland one year. I wouldn't make any conclusions based on that.

[kab21]

Your potential trade market is a lot bigger in the winter meetings than it is at the trade deadline. It's already going to be a lot of work to trade Span, Liriano, and Capps and make sure you get fair market value (or better) for them. Adding another high profile player like Willingham might confuse the situation, making potential trade targets waffle between Willingham and Span.

 

If a clear-cut trade comes through that is a blockbuster for the Twins, you do it. But JR already has enough on his plate, I don't see the point in piling on even more guys when the market for outfielders is already limited.

It's actually the opposite. In the offseason there are FA's that teams will go after before trading good prospects. Trade values are highest in July when teams are desperate and there is only a couple of options available.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's actually the opposite. In the offseason there are FA's that teams will go after before trading good prospects. Trade values are highest in July when teams are desperate and there is only a couple of options available.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that because instead of 5-6 teams looking for outfield help, you have all 30 teams looking for help around the diamond. Sure, some will pick up FAs but if you're offering a guy with two cost-controlled years (at a good rate), it shouldn't be hard to move him for prospects. It's a risk, for sure... As is everything in this game. Worst case scenario is that you hold onto Josh for another three months and then move him next July. No real loss there.

 

I just don't see the point in trading everybody until you can gauge what it is you need moving forward. Pitching is the obvious choice, of course... But pitching help should/will be found with Span and Liriano (who may be the best pitcher on the market if Philly signs Hamels).

 

I'm just not a fan of trading everything and everyone at once, I guess. I think trading a few pieces at a time is the way to go and I'd definitely rather see Span go than Willingham.

[DaveW]

We finally find a player who can hit a bunch of home runs in Target Field and we want to get rid of him?

 

No thanks. Unless we are offered a top flight prospect(Billy Hamilton or better) I have no real desire to get rid of one of the best bats we have had in some time.

[DPJ]

We finally find a player who can hit a bunch of home runs in Target Field and we want to get rid of him?

 

No thanks. Unless we are offered a top flight prospect(Billy Hamilton or better) I have no real desire to get rid of one of the best bats we have had in some time.

Even though the Twins will not be a playoff time during Willingham's contract?

[TheLeviathan]

We finally find a player who can hit a bunch of home runs in Target Field and we want to get rid of him?

 

No thanks. Unless we are offered a top flight prospect(Billy Hamilton or better) I have no real desire to get rid of one of the best bats we have had in some time.

I'm not sure why you insist on putting this spin on it. At his age and with his health concerns in the past he's not going to be here that long to begin with. And there is a very good chance that this is the best we'll see of him. It's simply a matter of swallowing the bitter pill of selling high on a player that isn't in the long-term future.

 

We've been burned on this a lot lately and this situation screams out that it may happen again. No one here is hating on Willingham or wanting him gone - just being practical.

[DaveW]

Even though the Twins will not be a playoff time during Willingham's contract?

There is no reason why the Twins can't be a playoff team in 2014 as long as Ryan continues to make some solid moves.

[DPJ]

There is no reason why the Twins can't be a playoff team in 2014 as long as Ryan continues to make some solid moves.

No reason...really Dave?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Even though the Twins will not be a playoff time during Willingham's contract?

Yes, the AL Central powerhouse that is the... um... yeah... er... will prevent the Twins from competing any time soon.

 

Find two good pitchers and this team is a contender again. It doesn't take much in this division. Of course, that partially depends on Hendriks and Gibson panning out, but that's not much of a longshot. Both should have floors of slightly below league average guys, ceilings of #2 (Gibson) or #3 (Hendriks).

 

Detroit is going to tank relatively soon under the weight of bad contracts. Kansas City's rebuilding isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The White Sox are getting older. There isn't much in this division to be afraid of right now.

[Mike Sixel]

I am of the belief that keeping around vets just so you don't totally suck (how much worse can it get?) is a bad idea. Taking half a strategy is a bad idea. I'd be thrilled if they dealt Span and Willingham for very good to great prospects.

[DaveW]

No reason...really Dave?

Yup, there is no reason why they can't be back at the top of the division in another season and a half.

 

I know that clashes with your theory that the Twins will suck until 2019.

 

Hell, if they can get some good arms back in trades and sign a good arm or two they could compete as early as next year if things break right with Hendriks and Gibson.

[TheLeviathan]

It's hard to say year to year how the team will be competitive. But Willingham's age is headed the wrong direction for this team and is unlikely to maintain the numbers he has now. Next year even if they add two pitchers and keep Willingham at his current pace we are still an average pitching staff with an average offense - not likely to be set the world on fire.

 

I'd rather maximize the value on a player who is aging - it's just being practical in my eyes.

[DPJ]

Yes, the AL Central powerhouse that is the... um... yeah... er... will prevent the Twins from competing any time soon.

 

Find two good pitchers and this team is a contender again. It doesn't take much in this division. Of course, that partially depends on Hendriks and Gibson panning out, but that's not much of a longshot. Both should have floors of slightly below league average guys, ceilings of #2 (Gibson) or #3 (Hendriks).

 

Detroit is going to tank relatively soon under the weight of bad contracts. Kansas City's rebuilding isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The White Sox are getting older. There isn't much in this division to be afraid of right now.

I agree that a couple good arms would go along way to fixing this mess, but there's no indication that the Twins are gonna go out and make the trade or signing to get those guys. I like Gibson longterm, but don't see him being a difference maker out the gate. Who's playing the infield, cause at the moment Ploufee looks like the only longterm solution there. Will Span be traded, is Revere an everyday player, can Willingham's back stay good, who the hell is gonna fill out the rest of the rotation, will the bullpen still be functioning at that time.

 

I know every team has questionmarks going forward, but IMO there's a hell of alot more questions for this team then answers. Enough questions that I don't see this team going from back to back 90+ loss season to suddenly in contention for a damn thing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

It's hard to say year to year how the team will be competitive. But Willingham's age is headed the wrong direction for this team and is unlikely to maintain the numbers he has now. Next year even if they add two pitchers and keep Willingham at his current pace we are still an average pitching staff with an average offense - not likely to be set the world on fire.

 

I'd rather maximize the value on a player who is aging - it's just being practical in my eyes.

It's not a bad idea. On the other hand, keeping butts in Target Field in the short term goes a long way toward keeping the payroll on this team reasonably high. Like Dave, I think this team can return to respectability in 2013 if things break right, 2014 more realistically.

 

Again, this is the AL Central. It doesn't take much to win this thing.

[TheLeviathan]

Like Dave, I think this team can return to respectability in 2013 if things break right, 2014 more realistically.

 

Again, this is the AL Central. It doesn't take much to win this thing.

The thing is - it not only has to break right in the ways we are flawed now, but all the things that have gone right this year have to maintain - Willingham's career best production, Mauer healthy, Plouffe hitting the ball like crazy, Revere hitting .315+, Scott Diamond's emergence, the bullpen's brilliance.

 

If even some of those things revert it sets you back as well. That's a lot of "ifs" that have to go the right way all in the name of keeping around a guy who is 33 with back issues having a career first half.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I agree that a couple good arms would go along way to fixing this mess, but there's no indication that the Twins are gonna go out and make the trade or signing to get those guys. I like Gibson longterm, but don't see him being a difference maker out the gate. Who's playing the infield, cause at the moment Ploufee looks like the only longterm solution there. Will Span be traded, is Revere an everyday player, can Willingham's back stay good, who the hell is gonna fill out the rest of the rotation, will the bullpen still be functioning at that time.

 

I know every team has questionmarks going forward, but IMO there's a hell of alot more questions for this team then answers. Enough questions that I don't see this team going from back to back 90+ loss season to suddenly in contention for a damn thing.

I agree on some counts. JR is going to have to step up during this trading deadline and during this offseason to have a shot at the division in the near future. Can he do it? I'd like to think so but we haven't seen him in this kind of situation before so it's hard to say for sure.

 

I think the Twins will look pretty good going into 2013 if they can trade Span for a close-to-MLB pitcher, Liriano for a low minors pitcher, and then wait it out. If things don't look good in the pitching FA market this offseason, consider offloading Willingham to pick up another pitcher.

 

My main problem lies in trading everybody at once. If you want to move Willingham now and Span later, that's no big deal but I'd rather see it the other way around because a rebuilding team will look better with Willingham on it than Span.

 

Instead of offloading everybody and everything, I think it's smarter to trade a few pieces and see what you have in December and then act accordingly. Right now, Liriano, Capps, and Span are the no-brainers to me.

 

Also, Dozier is looking more and more like a major leaguer every day. I don't think we should be discounting his play lately, even if it turns out that he needs to move to second base in the future.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The thing is - it not only has to break right in the ways we are flawed now, but all the things that have gone right this year have to maintain - Willingham's career best production, Mauer healthy, Plouffe hitting the ball like crazy, Revere hitting .315+, Scott Diamond's emergence, the bullpen's brilliance.

 

If even some of those things revert it sets you back as well. That's a lot of "ifs" that have to go the right way all in the name of keeping around a guy who is 33 with back issues having a career first half.

Sure, but that's the case every season. 2011 shouldn't have been as disastrous as it was. 2012 also shouldn't be as bad as it is (damn, Baker going down REALLY hurt).

 

Stuff like that happens. If you continue thinking "we need to stock up more to win this thing", you will end up in a perpetual cycle of rebuilding. Look at the Royals. Their prospects aren't panning out as expected again. I'm sure they'll return to respectability but when? And because of their staggered minor leaguers, will they ever get good before losing some of their guys to FA?

[TheLeviathan]

Stuff like that happens. If you continue thinking "we need to stock up more to win this thing"

If that was the argument I was making then that would be fair - my argument is that keeping a 33 year old with back problems around in hopes that everything will break right seems like a bad idea. Especially when that 33 year old is in the midst of his best season and has serious value to contenders. At that point I drop the hope of all going well and take the good deal when it's offered.

[Mike Sixel]

The Royal's hitters are, and once Wil Meyers is up, they'll be pretty good on O. Their pitchers stink. If they signed two big time FA pitchers, they'd look better than the Twins at most positions, not all positions. Every strategy has risks, but keeping old vets around so you aren't the worst team in baseball, is fraught with badness (nice sentence, but I hope you get the point). They are unlikely to be very good at pitching next year, so Willingham should be dealt, imo.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If that was the argument I was making then that would be fair - my argument is that keeping a 33 year old with back problems around in hopes that everything will break right seems like a bad idea. Especially when that 33 year old is in the midst of his best season and has serious value to contenders. At that point I drop the hope of all going well and take the good deal when it's offered.

Sigh. We're not even really arguing here. I think we should just stop now. My only real point is that I'd rather see the team wait until December before liquidating Willingham, not that I think they shouldn't be considering it at all.

[TheLeviathan]

Sigh. We're not even really arguing here. I think we should just stop now. My only real point is that I'd rather see the team wait until December before liquidating Willingham, not that I think they shouldn't be considering it at all.

The issue RP is that you keep suggesting reasons to wait that don't make a lot of sense. Waiting until the winter has serious risks. Waiting to see if we can land pitching has serious risks. Selling high, if that is available, has much less risk.

[DPJ]

I agree on some counts. JR is going to have to step up during this trading deadline and during this offseason to have a shot at the division in the near future. Can he do it? I'd like to think so but we haven't seen him in this kind of situation before so it's hard to say for sure.

 

I think the Twins will look pretty good going into 2013 if they can trade Span for a close-to-MLB pitcher, Liriano for a low minors pitcher, and then wait it out. If things don't look good in the pitching FA market this offseason, consider offloading Willingham to pick up another pitcher.

 

My main problem lies in trading everybody at once. If you want to move Willingham now and Span later, that's no big deal but I'd rather see it the other way around because a rebuilding team will look better with Willingham on it than Span.

 

Instead of offloading everybody and everything, I think it's smarter to trade a few pieces and see what you have in December and then act accordingly. Right now, Liriano, Capps, and Span are the no-brainers to me.

 

Also, Dozier is looking more and more like a major leaguer every day. I don't think we should be discounting his play lately, even if it turns out that he needs to move to second base in the future.

And look how much as to go right for the Twins to maybe get back in contention.

 

You have to hit on the Span and Liriano trades, you have to make some smart trades or signings to fill the rotation. You keep your fingers crossed that Ploufee, Doz and Revere are everyday player. You hope Diamond, Burton, Perkins and Burnett have to keep pitching well, you hope Mauer & Willingham stay healthy.

 

The chances that all those hit are slim to none, IMO it's better to bottom this thing out. Load up on as many prospect as you can and start building, then infuse the team with smart free agent signings.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The issue RP is that you keep suggesting reasons to wait that don't make a lot of sense. Waiting until the winter has serious risks. Waiting to see if we can land pitching has serious risks. Selling high, if that is available, has much less risk.

I don't really see it that way. If Willingham closes out the season anywhere near his current production, he has more value in December than he does today. One full season of a player with injury concerns is worth a lot more than three months of good play.

 

Six of one, half dozen of the other, I suppose. There is risk involved but there's always risk in this sport.

[Mike Sixel]

Ya, I think we are all sort of agreeing now, just nibbling around the edges....

[TwinVike61]

There is no need to start trading willy-nilly just for the sake of trading willy-nilly.

But if a team makes a great offer for Willy Nilly I think the Twins should take it...

[Guest USAFChief]

I see no reason the Twins can't be competing for the ALC in 2013. The needs are well known and center around starting pitching.

 

Sign Liriano, get the best SP you can for Span, and add starting pitching over the winter at the cost of nothing but money.

 

I am not interested in "blowing this up" and hoping magic happens, everything comes up roses with A ball prospects, and you're relavent again in 2016. Meanwhile your attendance tanks less than five years into a new stadium, payroll continues to drop, and you're the KC Royals, always in year two of some improbable five year plan.

 

If that appeals to you, by all means start down the path of being a farm team for the real major league teams. Let the real teams teams continue to pluck the actual major league talent off your roster in return for shiny trinkets.

 

Me? No thanks.