This lineup without Sano is not good

[drjim]

 

No, I was including Hunter as one of the sad options. The options didn't have to be Robinson, Escobar or Hunter.  None of those had to be an OF option for us.  

 

And, BTW,nothing screams let's have a backup plan for a 24 year old player who has had some injuries like signing a guy about to turn 40.  I doubt that's why he was signed.  He wasn't signed to backup anyone

 

Looking at the FAs from last offseason, these are pretty close to the options. Not sure where this magical pool of better available players is located.

 

Twins went into season with Hunter and Arcia as starters with Rosario in minors as backup, and other bench guys as more emergency options. 

[jimmer]

 

 

But if we rewind to February, this was the OF situation:

 

1. Hicks was horrible

2. Arcia couldn't stay on the field (and still can't)

3. Rosario was a question mark

4. Buxton was coming back from injury (and is injured again)

5. Robinson (LOL)

 

That's five question marks and zero confidence. I can't fault Ryan for picking up an established vet on a one-year deal, even if they vastly overpaid for him.

 

And it's not like Hunter has been anything close to bad. He's currently at 1.2 WAR and is a part of the reason why the Twins are in Wild Card contention. Overall, it has worked out, though it's time to start considering a platoon role for Torii, if only to keep him fresh through September and hopefully October.

Again, those were the options the GM gave us.  You don't blame the GM for the options he had when he, at least more than anyone else at his level or below, is responsible for the options available?

 

Anyway, this really can't turn into a good signing/bad signing thread again because I made a bad sarcastic joke.  I like your idea moving forward.

ostly at the expense of Hunter's playing time.

[jimmer]

 

Looking at the FAs from last offseason, these are pretty close to the options. Not sure where this magical pool of better available players is located.

 

Twins went into season with Hunter and Arcia as starters with Rosario in minors as backup, and other bench guys as more emergency options. 

and the only way to acquire players is by signing FA.  Got it.

 

Moving on.

[drjim]

 

Fact is he was signed.  But instead of this turning into a thread solely about people slamming a signing and others defending it (because I told an apparently not so funny joke and the defenders rose to Ryan's side), let's get back on point.  This lineup is obviously worse without Sano and this team is likely better off, now and in the future, to be playing Arcia more. Mostly at the expense of Hunter's playing time.

 

I consider it more analyzing real options based on a real roster instead of advocating theoretical moves involving players that don't exist.

 

But yes, the lineup is clearly better with Sano.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Again, those were the options the GM gave us.  You don't blame the GM for the options he had when he, at least more than anyone else at his level or below, is responsible for the options available?

 

Anyway, this really can't turn into a good signing/bad signing thread again because I made a bad sarcastic joke.  I like your idea moving forward.

ostly at the expense of Hunter's playing time.

We're all being respectful, it's cool. One last reason why I didn't mind the Hunter signing over some other possible years: one-year deal. If Ryan pursued another younger option, he probably has to buy 2-3 years of that player. Given the Twins' organizational makeup (and how well the outfield has turned out this season), that wasn't in the Twins' best interests.

 

But anyway, that's about all I have to say about Torii Hunter. So, back to Sano and Arcia.

[drjim]

 

and the only way to acquire players is by signing FA.  Got it.

 

Moving on.

 

If only they had traded for Kemp.

[amjgt]

Often the argument against calling someone up, for what may be sporadic playing time, is that it might hurt their development....

 

My question is this:

 

At point in the year does that go completely out the window? If it's mid-August and the Twins are the in hunt, do we literally create the best 25-man roster we possibly can? Call up Berrios. Call up Duffey. Call up Arcia. Call up Vargas. 

 

Those players might play twice a week, but when does the incremental gain of having Arcia on the bench instead of Robinson and the incremental gain of having Duffey and Berrios in the bullpen instead of Boyer and Duensing trump any worries about developmental path?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Often the argument against calling someone up, for what may be sporadic playing time, is that it might hurt their development....

 

My question is this:

 

At point in the year does that go completely out the window? If it's mid-August and the Twins are the in hunt, do we literally create the best 25-man roster we possibly can? Call up Berrios. Call up Duffey. Call up Arcia. Call up Vargas. 

 

Those players might play twice a week, but when does the incremental gain of having Arcia on the bench instead of Robinson and the incremental gain of having Duffey and Berrios in the bullpen instead of Boyer and Duensing trump any worries about developmental path?

 

Well.....other teams bring up SP to the bullpen earlier than now, or about now, so I'd go about a month ago.......especially since:

 

Hughes, Gibson, Santana, Milone, May, Berrios are in front of Duffey, and Rogers and Duffey are about equal.......

 

so, Duffey starts more than a game or 2 in the next 2 years if Milone is gone, someone else is hurt, Rogers or someone else has not passed him, and no pitchers have been brought in from the outside.

 

Do we really think having a guy go to the bullpen for 2 months is going to ruin his shot at starting next year? Anyone?

[drjim]

 

Well.....other teams bring up SP to the bullpen earlier than now, or about now, so I'd go about a month ago.......especially since:

 

Hughes, Gibson, Santana, Milone, May, Berrios are in front of Duffey, and Rogers and Duffey are about equal.......

 

so, Duffey starts more than a game or 2 in the next 2 years if Milone is gone, someone else is hurt, Rogers or someone else has not passed him, and no pitchers have been brought in from the outside.

 

Do we really think having a guy go to the bullpen for 2 months is going to ruin his shot at starting next year? Anyone?

 

Much more likely this has very little to do with why Duffey or Rogers is not up yet.

 

I think for someone like Arcia the time is close, but I don't think they want to jettison someone with value like Robinson just to get a couple more games with Arcia over 2 weeks.

 

A great prospect like Berrios will probably be more like Sept 1, as a means to keep innings up and put him in a position to move to the rotation if the need comes up. He could certainly be a dynamic weapon out of the pen down the stretch.

[Willihammer]

 

Arcia belongs hitting behind Sano. They should call him up when Plouffe takes a day or three off to be with his wife. Arcia behind Sano against righties. Plouffe behind Sano against lefties. Simple as that...until Vargas gets back.

Oof, really? I think the Sano-Plouffe combo has been working quite splendidly.

I agree Arcia should probably be spelling Hunter 1-2 times week though.

[jimbo92107]

 

Oof, really? I think the Sano-Plouffe combo has been working quite splendidly.

I agree Arcia should probably be spelling Hunter 1-2 times week though.

I agree that Trevor Plouffe lately has been punishing pitchers for walking Sano. Two homers in the last few games is amazing. However, if a RH pitcher just finishes semi-intentionally walking Miguel Sano, and now he's facing lefty bully boy Oswaldo Arcia, that provides a bit more pressure than seeing Plouffe step up, even though he's been hot lately. Arcia is particularly good against RH pitchers. This also allows Plouffe to back up Sano more against lefties, which means more balls curving towards his bat. Meanwhile he could be backing up Arcia, further punishing pitchers that want to walk their way past the bullies.

[amjgt]

Do we think that Arcia's early season struggles are tied to the inordinate number of lefty pitchers (good ones) that we faced early in the year?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Do we think that Arcia's early season struggles are tied to the inordinate number of lefty pitchers (good ones) that we faced early in the year?

The thing is that he didn't struggle that badly (97 OPS+) and only received 65 PAs. 25 of those PAs came against lefties. That's a bit more than normal but not a huge portion.