Twins Option Vargas to AA

[jimbo92107]

Possibly they sent Kennys Vargas to AA because they want him to brutalize some AA pitchers, to become the most feared hitter in that league. Vargas can look at AB Walker and go, "Oh yeah, I should bash balls like that guy, only farther."

 

I hope Vargas takes out his frustrations on some poor, helpless AA pitchers. Get back to being a bully at the plate. Hammer some tape measure home runs. That's his ticket back to the majors. Swing that bat like Big Papi 2.0.

[Halsey Hall]

Ruesse thinks Vargas was sent to AA to work with Chad Allen, rather than to AAA.  Maybe Allen can get him back on track. 

[drjim]

 

The people who made that mistake are still in charge now. That's why this is relevant. Also, unicorns aren't real. 

 

I think this move symbolizes that they have learned from it to some degree. Give him a chance to work out his stuff in the minors before he becomes too expensive in the bigs and they have to make a premature decision on his future.

[jokin]

 

Possibly they sent Kennys Vargas to AA because they want him to brutalize some AA pitchers, to become the most feared hitter in that league. Vargas can look at AB Walker and go, "Oh yeah, I should bash balls like that guy, only farther."

 

I hope Vargas takes out his frustrations on some poor, helpless AA pitchers. Get back to being a bully at the plate. Hammer some tape measure home runs. That's his ticket back to the majors. Swing that bat like Big Papi 2.0.

 

But the whole problem that Molitor and Bruno had with both Vargas and Arcia early on was their approach in BP of too much focus on the long ball, not enough on situational hitting.

[jokin]

 

I think this move symbolizes that they have learned from it to some degree. Give him a chance to work out his stuff in the minors before he becomes too expensive in the bigs and they have to make a premature decision on his future.

 

Good point.  They still have this year and next to get him right.  I still am scratching my head on the May demotion.  Aaron Gleeman broke down the whole strange May demotion just as Vargas was seemingly moving in the right direction towards making the adjustments the braintrust was looking for (956. OPS in May).

 

 

 

What also stands out now is the Twins' lack of other appealing designated hitter options. Several times Molitor benched Vargas in favor of Eduardo Nunez and Eduardo Escobar, a pair of utility infielders who each have a career OPS below .700 in the majors and the minors. Now that Vargas is out of the mix Nunez and Escobar figure to see even more action as left fielders and designated hitters, which is a weird thing to do intentionally.

Here's how Vargas, Nunez, and Escobar have hit in their respective Twins careers:

                    AVG      OBP      SLG      OPS
Kennys Vargas      .266     .309     .425     .734
Eduardo Nunez      .265     .291     .403     .694
Eduardo Escobar    .260     .300     .379     .679
In performing poorly enough to get demoted back to the minors Vargas still easily out-produced Nunez and Escobar. And unlike either Nunez or Escobar, there's actually evidence within Vargas' track record as a minor leaguer to suggest he's capable of producing more. 

 

[drjim]

 

Good point.  They still have this year and next to get him right.  I still am scratching my head on the May demotion.  Aaron Gleeman broke down the whole strange May demotion just as Vargas was seemingly moving in the right direction towards making the adjustments the braintrust was looking for (956. OPS in May).

 

I'm not scratching my head on the demotion. Looking at some numbers and comparing him to utility/bench guys isn't going to tell that story. The problem was the recall, but considering the situation the Twins didn't have much of a choice. Now he can get the low pressure reps he needs.

[jokin]

 

I'm not scratching my head on the demotion. Looking at some numbers and comparing him to utility/bench guys isn't going to tell that story. The problem was the recall, but considering the situation the Twins didn't have much of a choice. Now he can get the low pressure reps he needs.

 

Well actually, I think it told quite a story.  The main reason "the Twins didn't have much of a choice" on the recall, was due to the demotion in the first place- Vargas had a hot 3 weeks or so-  .347 BA/874 OPS over his last 51 PAs before his first demotion.  The  Twins offense sputtered for a good month, just as their best DH option had seen his bat come to life only to be sent down, for some pretty flimsy reasons given at the time.  And PRECISELY because the move was made in favor of two career utility men to man the position, who quite predictably, didn't produce much.  Nunez was 4/25 as a DH/PH while Vargas was down.  Escobar was 2/12 as a DH while Vargas was down.  That's a combined .162 BA.

 

Sorry, still headscratching.

[GM64]

I wonder if sending Vargas to AA was merely paperwork until the Wheeler release went through.  Vargas shows up on the Rochester roster in the Rochester website:

 

http://www.milb.com/roster/index.jsp?sid=t534

 

Also Twins site now says Vargas to Rochester:

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=min#month=7&year=2015&team_id=142

 

 

 

 

 

 

[drjim]

By all means keep scratching your head. I chuckle at the thought of a "hot" three weeks. Take a closer look at who he actually got his extra base hits off and what his bb and k rates were. He walked into a couple late in blowouts against mopup guys but it wasn't sustainable. He certainly has talent but was mostly lost at the plate. Not surprising the same thing happened after his recall.

 

He's a professional, a couple of weeks in the minors isn't going to derail a hot streak if there was actually something behind it other than brief randomness.

[LaBombo]

 

I wonder if sending Vargas to AA was merely paperwork until the Wheeler release went through.  Vargas shows up on the Rochester roster in the Rochester website:

 

http://www.milb.com/roster/index.jsp?sid=t534

 

Also Twins site now says Vargas to Rochester:

 

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=min#month=7&year=2015&team_id=142

 

It's hard for me to see the line of reasoning that goes along with the Vargas demotion.

 

But for now, while I still disagree with the move, my reaction is pretty much one of 'what's done is done'.

 

For the good of the kid rather than for the good of the organization, it's my hope that he stays put at Rochester until we start seeing the level of offensive production that causes people to contemplate the printing and wearing of "Free Kennys Vargas" t-shirts.

 

On a potentially related note, this Hunter kid has been both a good story and a good signing that has worked out much better than I expected,

 

But it would grate on me to no end if his presence, both on the roster and in & out of the lineup as a 39 year old in need of liberal days off and/or DH AB's, causes the Twins front office or Molitor to do anything with either Vargas or Sano that's not in their best interest as developing players.

[jimbo92107]

 

But the whole problem that Molitor and Bruno had with both Vargas and Arcia early on was their approach in BP of too much focus on the long ball, not enough on situational hitting.

Not quite. Their problem with Vargas wasn't that he was hitting too many balls over the fence in BP, but that he was trying too hard to hit mortar shot homers. Bruno and Molitor wanted to see line drive BP homers, which are better practice for game swings, if you want to have a higher average. Instead, Vargas developed a problem similar to Joe Mauer's, where he stayed too much on his back foot, didn't transfer his weight, and wound up topping balls and hitting grounders. Who needs a 250 pound man that hits like Danny Santana? Vargas needs to launch his prodigious mass towards the pitcher and mash line drive home runs, not hit wrist-flip singles. More like Ortiz, less like Santana.

[jokin]

 

Not quite. Their problem with Vargas wasn't that he was hitting too many balls over the fence in BP, but that he was trying too hard to hit mortar shot homers. Bruno and Molitor wanted to see line drive BP homers, which are better practice for game swings, if you want to have a higher average. Instead, Vargas developed a problem similar to Joe Mauer's, where he stayed too much on his back foot, didn't transfer his weight, and wound up topping balls and hitting grounders. Who needs a 250 pound man that hits like Danny Santana? Vargas needs to launch his prodigious mass towards the pitcher and mash line drive home runs, not hit wrist-flip singles. More like Ortiz, less like Santana.

 

Clearly something's getting lost in the translation from coach to player.

[Blackjack]

 

It's not that Vargas was ever much of a prospect. His best defensive position has always been DH, he was old for each of the minor league levels, IIRC, and never showed much game power. 

And it wasn't that long ago that there was a 'Free Vargas' movement here on TD.

[Craig Arko]

And it wasn't that long ago that there was a 'Free Vargas' movement here on TD.

TD posters have regular movements.

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

Kennys to AAA is slightly better than Kennys to AA.

 

Vargas is not going to get better at hitting Major League Pitching by facing AAA pitchers.

 

I'm glad that Arcia is finally having some success again down there, hope he is recalled soon.

 

I'm biased because Vargas is my favorite Twin right now, but if Molitor is not going to play him regularly, I guess having him in AAA is going to be for the best. Regular at bats is better than rotting on the bench.

 

I wonder if sending Kennys down for Sano is also partially an olive branch to Rochester since Sano and Buxton may never play there for longer than a rehab stint. Might as well get some entertainment from some Vargas lasers and moonshots...

[jokin]

 

By all means keep scratching your head. I chuckle at the thought of a "hot" three weeks. Take a closer look at who he actually got his extra base hits off and what his bb and k rates were. He walked into a couple late in blowouts against mopup guys but it wasn't sustainable. He certainly has talent but was mostly lost at the plate. Not surprising the same thing happened after his recall.

He's a professional, a couple of weeks in the minors isn't going to derail a hot streak if there was actually something behind it other than brief randomness.

 

 

Go ahead and chuckle.  The numbers don't lie, multiple writers and analysts have questioned how this has been handled.  How do you get your confidence up and look less lost at the plate but from getting regular at bats?  All during that period, the coaching staff was actively and publicly working on changing his approach at the plate- which of course lead to struggles and spurts.  Your reasoning in your closing paragraph is as baffling as the Twins decision for the May demotion.

[drjim]

 

Go ahead and chuckle.  The numbers don't lie, multiple writers and analysts have questioned how this has been handled.  How do you get your confidence up and look less lost at the plate but from getting regular at bats?  All during that period, the coaching staff was actively and publicly working on changing his approach at the plate- which of course lead to struggles and spurts.  Your reasoning in your closing paragraph is as baffling as the Twins decision for the May demotion.

 

Actually, based on the conclusions you seem to be drawing compared to what was actually happening, the numbers were lying. And this is especially true if your "multiple writers and analysts" look at the same numbers and all draw the same conclusions. Feedback loops and such.

 

I'm quite confident you can take similar stretches of games for, say Nunez and Escobar, and find a similar OPS (if not higher). That doesn't change the fact he was struggling for basically the entire year. Good for the coaches to make adjustments, much wiser to have them worked on in a lower pressure environment of AAA.

[d-mac]

 

And Terry has called that move 13 years ago the biggest blunder in his GM career.

 

He has? I wasn't aware he admits his mistakes. 

[Blackjack]

Vargas needs to go pull a 'Milone', work hard, use the demotion as motivation, prove that he's a ML player, force his way back up. If he goes down and pouts - see Arcia - then he'll spend a nice summer in Chatanooga.

[jimbo92107]

 

Clearly something's getting lost in the translation from coach to player.

Yet the goal is quite measurable, simply in miles per hour. If you take the average velocity of a line drive home run that hits the middle of the first deck, you might get something like 103mph. Just guessing, but close enough. That should be Vargas's standard line drive when he barrels it up. Tell him just that. Swing to hit the ball at least 103mph every time, unless the coach signals you to ease up for a very specific reason, like two strikes and the winning run is on third. Otherwise, prepare exclusively in batting practice to hit rocket line drives, and anything over 103mph is okay, too. Velocity, not elevation. High mph, so you better shift your weight really hard into the pitch, and keep that bat tightly cocked, even as you lunge forward.