Wily Mo Pena?

[tobi0040]

Eh, so what.  Anyone that signs Pena will surely only do so to a minor league deal.  The Twins were rumored to be interested in doing the same thing to Casey Mcgehee last year and probably realized they were on the right track when he turned out to be a servicable player. 

 

Last year I was just fine with the Kubel, Bartlett and Guerrier signings, they were all worth a no risk flier. Clearly the flaw was simply not making them earn their spots on the MLB level.   I give Ryan a lot of flack, but he wasn't the one making the decisions to give those three 25-man spots, that was Rob Anthony.  I don't think Pena, or any other minor league signing is going to be given a free pass onto the MLB roster this year, at least not after last season's fiasco.

 

I would not waste my time.   He was last in MLB in 2011.   He had a .666 OPS.  Missed 2009 and 2010 seasons. In 2008 his OPS was .509.

 

In his last three years in Japan he has put up an OBP of .344.   BA .262.  Struck out 3x more than BB.

 

For those suggesting it is just a minor league deal....  Kubel had a .196 average and .571 OPS in spring training and made the team last year.  

 

Bartett's OPS was .245 in spring training and he went north with the team befoe quitting.

 

Now I get that is the GM's issue, but this is the same GM.

[TheLeviathan]

I would not waste my time.   He was last in MLB in 2011.   He had a .666 OPS.  Missed 2009 and 2010 seasons. In 2008 his OPS was .509.

 

In his last three years in Japan he has put up an OBP of .344.   BA .262.  Struck out 3x more than BB.

 

Right, this is a guy who hasn't even been very good in Japan and he's exactly the wrong kind of player for us to target for the outfield.

[tobi0040]

Right, this is a guy who hasn't even been very good in Japan and he's exactly the wrong kind of player for us to target for the outfield.

 

Yes.  Our front office should practice writing on the chalk-board....

 

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE.

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE.

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE.

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE.

OUR PROBLEM WITH THE OF IS DEFENSE

[Steven Buhr]

I would not waste my time.   He was last in MLB in 2011.   He had a .666 OPS.  Missed 2009 and 2010 seasons. In 2008 his OPS was .509.

 

In his last three years in Japan he has put up an OBP of .344.   BA .262.  Struck out 3x more than BB.

 

For those suggesting it is just a minor league deal....  Kubel had a .196 average and .571 OPS in spring training and made the team last year.  

 

Bartett's OPS was .245 in spring training and he went north with the team befoe quitting.

 

Now I get that is the GM's issue, but this is the same GM.

Just for the record, I think Ryan has stated more than once that he was not directly involved with roster decisions during or coming out of spring training last season, as he was focused on his health issues.

 

I think concerns about the Twins having a history of leaning toward giving every opportunity to claim roster spots to these veterans brought in on minor league deals are legitimate issues, but I think it's also important to recognize that Terry Ryan did not make the decisions in 2014.

[tobi0040]

Just for the record, I think Ryan has stated more than once that he was not directly involved with roster decisions during or coming out of spring training last season, as he was focused on his health issues.

 

I think concerns about the Twins having a history of leaning toward giving every opportunity to claim roster spots to these veterans brought in on minor league deals are legitimate issues, but I think it's also important to recognize that Terry Ryan did not make the decisions in 2014.

 

That is fair.

[twinsfan34]

With news that Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval have been signed by the Red Sox, I think the move would be to trade for Mookie Betts.  Allegedly they are going to move Hanley to the OF.  They have like six OF's.

 

I'd be all on board for somehow getting Mookie Betts without salvaging the farm. Betts is awesome and scare resource of strike zone management in this age. I don't think they'd part with him. They're more likely to part with Pedroia than Betts. Cost, injuries, and decline. Cost, because even though I think these two hitters are on the decline, regardless, they need starting pitching to compete and they're only $40M ?) underneath the luxury tax threshold.

[twinsfan34]

I'd be all on board for somehow getting Mookie Betts without salvaging the farm. Betts is awesome and scare resource of strike zone management in this age. I don't think they'd part with him. They're more likely to part with Pedroia than Betts. Cost, injuries, and decline. Cost, because even though I think these two hitters are on the decline, regardless, they need starting pitching to compete and they're only $40M ?) underneath the luxury tax threshold.

 

If you have insider, Buster Olney's blog covers this dilemma...

 

CF -- Mookie Betts (bats right)

2B -- Dustin Pedroia ®

DH -- David Ortiz (L)

LF -- Ramirez ®

3B -- Sandoval (S)

1B -- Mike Napoli ®

RF -- Rusney Castillo ®

C -- Christian Vazquez ®

SS -- Xander Bogaerts ®

 

Not listed in that lineup: Yoenis Cespedes, Allen Craig, Brock Holt, Daniel Nava, Shane Victorino, Jackie Bradley Jr., Will Middlebrooks and Garin Cecchini -- all of whom have varying degrees of value to the Red Sox, or in trade. Just as Cubs president Theo Epstein has a stockpile of position players to talk about in any potential trade, Boston general manager Ben Cherington will be loaded with pieces to discuss in possible deals for pitching.

 

To get his take, go here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=8704

[nicksaviking]

 

Now I get that is the GM's issue, but this is the same GM.

 

I agree with SD.  I don't give Ryan a pass on much, but I'm laying all that mess at the feet of Anthony.  Ryan didn't even manage to find a way for Jacque Jones to make a late season cameo when the team brought him back in a token gesture.

 

Placing Kubel, Bartlett and Guerrier on the 25-man stunk much more like moves Gardenhire wanted than Ryan.  As Anthony is a numbers guy, not a baseball guy, I strongly believed at the time Gardy had much more influence on roster decisions than he normally did under Ryan.

[nicksaviking]

Boston general manager Ben Cherington will be loaded with pieces to discuss in possible deals for pitching.

 

 

And everyone knows that when you're looking for quality pitching, your first call should be to Minnesota.

[tobi0040]

I'd be all on board for somehow getting Mookie Betts without salvaging the farm. Betts is awesome and scare resource of strike zone management in this age. I don't think they'd part with him. They're more likely to part with Pedroia than Betts. Cost, injuries, and decline. Cost, because even though I think these two hitters are on the decline, regardless, they need starting pitching to compete and they're only $40M ?) underneath the luxury tax threshold.

 

If I was them I would hold onto Betts.  But the post-Theo Red Sox have favored aging high priced players over 22 year olds.  So I think they may part with Betts. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I like looking. Again, Chris Carter cleared waivers for all MLB teams, could be had for $500K.

Chris Carter is projected to make $3.5 million in arbitration -- if he indeed passed through waivers, that would be part of the reason why.

[jokin]

I agree with SD.  I don't give Ryan a pass on much, but I'm laying all that mess at the feet of Anthony.  Ryan didn't even manage to find a way for Jacque Jones to make a late season cameo when the team brought him back in a token gesture.

 

Placing Kubel, Bartlett and Guerrier on the 25-man stunk much more like moves Gardenhire wanted than Ryan.  As Anthony is a numbers guy, not a baseball guy, I strongly believed at the time Gardy had much more influence on roster decisions than he normally did under Ryan.

 

I think you nailed it.  And the sad results of those moves likely didn't help Gardy's cause at season's end.

[jokin]

Not listed in that lineup: Yoenis Cespedes, Allen Craig, Brock Holt, Daniel Nava, Shane Victorino, Jackie Bradley Jr.,

 

Just these 6 potentially excess Red Sox OFers, plus the Dodgers and Cardinals own OF logjams, tells me the Twins aren't thoroughly thinking through all of the potential ways to bolster their own OF.  With an excess of supply, the price on something decent can only go down as this offseason progresses.  Is there a dictum written on the wall in the GMs office-  "Whatever you do, don't trade a prospect!" ?

[nicksaviking]

I think you nailed it.  And the sad results of those moves likely didn't help Gardy's cause at season's end.

 

So you're saying not only did a trade invovling Jason Bartlett eventually get Bill Smith fired, but the insistance of wasting a 25-man spot and trying to put him in the OF helped get Gardy canned too!

 

Jason Bartlett = Your worst decision

[jokin]

So you're saying not only did a trade invovling Jason Bartlett eventually get Bill Smith fired, but the insistance of wasting a 25-man spot and trying to put him in the OF helped get Gardy canned too!

 

Jason Bartlett = Your worst decision

 

It sure didn't help. Pretty sad when you so horribly mis-evaluate a guy, both coming and going.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I agree with SD.  I don't give Ryan a pass on much, but I'm laying all that mess at the feet of Anthony.

I agree too... but then, why is TR so sanguine about having Antony as his #2 in charge, or permanently handing the job off to Bill Smith?

[jokin]

And everyone knows that when you're looking for quality pitching, your first call should be to Minnesota.

 

There have to be some three-way trade possibilities out there, but regardless, something's going to have to give in an OFer or two being let go in Boston, LA, and probably St Louis.

[James]

Just these 6 potentially excess Red Sox OFers, plus the Dodgers and Cardinals own OF logjams, tells me the Twins aren't thoroughly thinking through all of the potential ways to bolster their own OF.  With an excess of supply, the price on something decent can only go down as this offseason progresses.  Is there a dictum written on the wall in the GMs office-  "Whatever you do, don't trade a prospect!" ?

To be fair, we don't really know what kinds of conversations TR is having with these teams.  They could be talking about these very things, or all these teams could be waiting until the winter GM meetings coming up.

 

The Twins could also be waiting to see who is not being tendered a contract to try to sign someone to a one-year stop gap.  

 

I have a feeling that the the Twins aren't signing or trading for anyone until those meetings happen.  Just a feeling I have.  I can almost guarantee that TR has some sort of conversations about some some of these "extra" outfielders.  I'm not going to say anything comes from those conversations, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen at all.

[jokin]

To be fair, we don't really know what kinds of conversations TR is having with these teams.  They could be talking about these very things, or all these teams could be waiting until the winter GM meetings coming up.

 

The Twins could also be waiting to see who is not being tendered a contract to try to sign someone to a one-year stop gap.  

 

I have a feeling that the the Twins aren't signing or trading for anyone until those meetings happen.  Just a feeling I have.  I can almost guarantee that TR has some sort of conversations about some some of these "extra" outfielders.  I'm not going to say anything comes from those conversations, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen at all.

 

Good fair post.  The non-tender route in a week or so could reveal some interesting options.

 

I also think the Rule 5 route should be fully explored.  I've been touting 22-year old Delino Deshields as their #1 non-pitching target.  He can patrol a lot of territory and he also could platoon with a LH bat, as well as being a late-inning pinch runner (stole over 100 bases in 2012).  The Red Sox have a 7th excess OFer in Henry Ramos, Jim Callis likes him even more than Deshields:

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/102323126/pipeline-perspectives-henry-ramos-jarlin-garcia-are-best-unprotected-prospects

 

Nothing wrong in going young with a defensively sound player, especially when it costs you so very little to find out if you have something.

[ScrapTheNickname]

He is the best player ever - named Wily Mo.

[Thrylos]

I am really hard-pressed to find any difference between WM Pena and Colabello at this point, with the bat, at the bases or on the field.  

 

If the Twins want a power hitting OF, they should talk to the Dodgers about Kemp or the BoSox about Cespedes.    Enough with this Terry Ryan annual dumpster dive.

[jokin]

I am really hard-pressed to find any difference between WM Pena and Colabello at this point, with the bat, at the bases or on the field.  

 

If the Twins want a power hitting OF, they should talk to the Dodgers about Kemp or the BoSox about Cespedes.    Enough with this Terry Ryan annual dumpster dive.

 

Those dumpster dives won't ever end as long as Terry's at the helm.  It's part of his GM DNA.

[tobi0040]

Those dumpster dives won't ever end as long as Terry's at the helm.  It's part of his GM DNA.

 

I agree. 

[DocBauer]

WMP.........ummmmmmmmm..............no.

 

To me the question would be WHY? Colabello is younger, cheap, and has a little upside ( based on what we've seen previously and allowing for his reported injury) WMP would be...........ummmmmmmm....... a guy at AAA who can't hit or field but has power?