Interesting Roster decisions coming

[Trevor0333]

I can't see Corriea having no trade value, as much as I hated the signing he has for the most part been pretty solid for a #4-5 & not just a decent month & a half at the end of the year in garbage time like Pelfrey. I don't think your going to get enough value prospect wise for him to make a move worthwhile.

 

That said, it would sure be nice if there was a way to find a team desperate for pitching due to injuries (Hello Rangers) and see if you can simply find a team to take on Pelfrey's contract for Corriea & Willingham. Clearing up some 40 man roster space. Maybe the Dbacks or any other needy pen would bite on taking Burton if offered with Duensing for a guy like Tony Campana to be a another backup CF option this team is suddenly very lacking in.

 

Meyer, May, Darnell, Tonkin, Parmelee all should be on the MLB roster by July. They could be the shot in the arm the team needs to stay above 500 and at least put a little scare into the Tigers while the team is learning to win together.

[jokin]

Here's a call: On July 1, Aaron Hicks will have a higher OPS+ than Bonifacio.

 

False comparison. I believe those that wanted the club to get an insurance policy in CF would hope that signing that policy would be of help for Hicks to far exceed the OPS+ number of whomever the backup guy might have been.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I would back-slap both Theo and Terry for both personnel decisions, not for the great months both players had, but that both decisions made sense in strengthening their teams, adding insurance policies in an area of weakness, and possibly becoming trading chips at premium positions should their performance stimulate demand.....ALL based on their career norms, not their league-leading months-worth of over-production.

 

Sure, but ultimately the Twins ended up with Fuld, a guy who was providing more value than Bonifacio until random concussion bizarro world hit the team.

 

At the end of the day, we're arguing over a slew of players who are all around replacement level. As I stated before the season, it's not hard to dig these guys off the scrap heap and the Twins did just that with Fuld.

 

That doesn't absolve the Twins for making a string of *&^%ing bizarre moves that emptied the 40 man roster of all available center field talent but it does mean that it has little impact overall.

[jokin]

It'd be nice but I wouldn't hold my breath. Hicks needs to make contact before his OPS+ will nudge into acceptable territory. On the other hand, it's also possible that Hicks "wins" because Bonifacio's OPS+ descends into unacceptable territory.

 

It should also be noted that Fuld has provided roughly the same value as Bonifacio in half the plate appearances this season.

 

One cannot predict injury insanity and massive fluctuation between an assortment of players (Fuld, Presley, Bonifacio, Mastroianni) who are all roughly replacement level guys.

 

Roughly the same value. How so? Value derived because Fuld is the best defender of the 3? (Bonifacio's dWAR is 0.6). How is Bonifacio's 1.0 bWAR roughly the same as Fuld's 0.1 bWAR? (Aaron Hicks -0.3).

[Brock Beauchamp]

I never use bWAR for position players unless I'm in a hurry or on my phone. I always use fWAR. Bonifacio and Fuld are at 1.2 and 1.1.

[jokin]

Sure, but ultimately the Twins ended up with Fuld, a guy who was providing more value than Bonifacio until random concussion bizarro world hit the team.

 

At the end of the day, we're arguing over a slew of players who are all around replacement level. As I stated before the season, it's not hard to dig these guys off the scrap heap and the Twins did just that with Fuld.

 

That doesn't absolve the Twins for making a string of *&^%ing bizarre moves that emptied the 40 man roster of all available center field talent but it does mean that it has little impact overall.

 

It did lead directly to losses, losses that could cost the team a Wild Card spot- should the highly unlikely occur and the team stay competitive. And it showed real lack of foresight in the offseason and lack of competence and stability from the FO in-season, they literally had to have Fuld get DFAd at an extraordiarily opportune moment, just to have a bona fide CFer available above High-A.

 

(And I still would like for the Twins to have the option of moving Hicks to AAA, the absence of that flexibility could have long-term consequences for maximizing Hicks' value).

[Brock Beauchamp]

It did lead directly to losses, losses that could cost the team a Wild Card spot- should the highly unlikely occur and the team stay competitive. And it showed real lack of foresight in the offseason and lack of competence and stability from the FO in-season, they literally had to have Fuld get DFAd at an extraordiarily opportune moment, just to have a bona fide CFer available above High-A.

 

It led to losses because both centerfielders went down with concussions in the same week.

 

And I don't believe the Fuld acquisition was that opportune. There are many opportunities to pick up replacement-level players in a season, even at up-the-middle positions. After all, they are replacement players.

 

I'm not giving the Twins a pass for roster construction. I think the release of Mastroianni was incredibly stupid after they had thinned the centerfield herd so aggressively to start the season. No one move hurt them badly but a series of perplexing moves led to a situation where they had no center fielders when they should have been able to fall back to Mastroianni in a pinch. Not an optimal situation but one that won't kill a team for 2-3 games.

[Squirrel]

Hah, exactly. If the Twins had simply gone with Mastro, I think much of the hand-wringing over centerfield would be absent.

 

This entire situation still confuses me. I'd like to know what happened with Presley and why he's performing so badly.

 

Also, why the Twins felt Bartlett was an acceptable option.

 

yeah ... the times you wish you were a fly on the wall in these decisions. you know there is more to the story and it's somewhat maddening not to have all the answers.

[gmarais66]

I find it comical that people have spent nearly 100 posts arguing about two AAAA outfielders... Or maybe three, if you count Fuld... Mastro and Presley are disposable players... They're aren't going to make a lick of difference in the big picture of a season... Hicks needs to play all season for the team to gauge if he's really a part of the future or just another guy with big potential, who washed out. Personally, the team is fine with Santana or Escobar serving as his backup in CF... Unless Hicks suffers an injury they won't be needed anyway. If he does get hurt, then maybe Santana plays every day, if Fuld is still not able to play... Or you bring up the next Mastro or Presley from the minors... They're a dime a dozen... Just let Mastro and Presley fade into the Twins' history book and forget about them... Sort of how I'd completely forgotten about Rene Rivera, until I saw him in the Padres' lineup...

[The Wise One]

In the end, between Sizemore, Presley, Fuld, Mastro, and Bonifacio you will find what comes out is a reserve outfielder. A few streaks of good hitting, a longer stretch of bad. It would have made it easier if any of them stuck with the Twins for the whole season, but they are neither going to have an upside, nor play very far above replacement level, if at all above replacement level. By the end of the year perhaps all doubt will be erased about Hicks' potential.

[Brock Beauchamp]

yeah ... the times you wish you were a fly on the wall in these decisions. you know there is more to the story and it's somewhat maddening not to have all the answers.

 

Yep. Normally, I just write off stuff like this as "internal decisions, could be anything" but this one is so baffling that I'd like to know the story behind it.

[WLFINN]

So say Mastro is still on the 40, who isn't? And is he starting? Hicks at AAA? who is the backup CF?

[Brock Beauchamp]

I find it comical that people have spent nearly 100 posts arguing about two AAAA outfielders... Or maybe three, if you count Fuld

 

Actually, I believe we're up to five now.

 

Fuld, Mastroianni, Bonifacio, Presley, and Sizemore.

 

They're all bad options and should be expected to put up similar numbers. Fuld and Bonifacio have been the best (1.1 and 1.2 fWAR) while Presley and Sizemore have been Hicksian this season (-0.7 and -0.2 fWAR respectively). Mastro hasn't played in MLB since leaving the Twins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

So say Mastro is still on the 40, who isn't? And is he starting? Hicks at AAA? who is the backup CF?

 

I'd have Mastro on the 25 man until Fuld returns then make a decision what to do with him.

 

As for the 40 man, I'd have pushed Matt Guerrier off into the sunset and possibly thrown a flaming torch onto the raft.

[WLFINN]

So say Mastro is still on the 40, who isn't? And is he starting? Hicks at AAA? who is the backup CF?

 

Just trying to look bigger picture into the whole argument/discussion, not quite grasping what all the fuss is about? Not sure the roster would look a whole lot different....

[WLFINN]

I'd have Mastro on the 25 man until Fuld returns then make a decision what to do with him.

 

As for the 40 man, I'd have pushed Matt Guerrier off into the sunset and possibly thrown a flaming torch onto the raft.

 

So then Parmalee is still in AAA? or is Hicks? Santana?

[Brock Beauchamp]

So then Parmalee is still in AAA? or is Hicks? Santana?

 

Santana, probably. I didn't think he belonged on the MLB roster in the first place. He should be in Rochester, getting reps at short every day.

[kdrupp09]

Santana, probably. I didn't think he belonged on the MLB roster in the first place. He should be in Rochester, getting reps at short every day.

 

I agree completely. Santana needs as many reps as he can get at short and right now with Escobar playing well in the bigs, Santana would be much better off playing short everyday in Rochester so the Twins can figure out if he can be the shortstop of the future.

[golfboy1]

I find it comical that people have spent nearly 100 posts arguing about two AAAA outfielders... Or maybe three, if you count Fuld... Mastro and Presley are disposable players... They're aren't going to make a lick of difference in the big picture of a season... Hicks needs to play all season for the team to gauge if he's really a part of the future or just another guy with big potential, who washed out. Personally, the team is fine with Santana or Escobar serving as his backup in CF... Unless Hicks suffers an injury they won't be needed anyway. If he does get hurt, then maybe Santana plays every day, if Fuld is still not able to play... Or you bring up the next Mastro or Presley from the minors... They're a dime a dozen... Just let Mastro and Presley fade into the Twins' history book and forget about them... Sort of how I'd completely forgotten about Rene Rivera, until I saw him in the Padres' lineup...

 

 

I think Hicks would have been much better off getting some AAA experience rather than being thrown into the situation he has been. Even with Hicks, there should be a better option than having a MI playing CF in a ML game. Santana was horrible in the one game that I saw him play. He misjudged fly balls, he threw to the middle of the infield several times instead of the correct base. It's not exactly his fault, he should not have been put in that situation.

 

Fuld, Presley or Mastro are all backup OF but they can all handle CF & run the bases. Bonifacio is probably a tick better than any of them. They aren't going to make the Twins a championship team but "somebody" has to play CF & they are all probably better options than how the Twins handles the situation.

 

I'd love to hear any semi lucid reason why Bartlett made the team. He's 34 yrs old, batted .133 in 2012, didn't play in 2013 & batted close to .000 in spring training. Oh, and he's an IF who Gardy decided should start playing OF this spring since it looked like we would need a backup OF. I don't see any problem with that plan.

[The Wise One]

I agree completely. Santana needs as many reps as he can get at short and right now with Escobar playing well in the bigs, Santana would be much better off playing short everyday in Rochester so the Twins can figure out if he can be the shortstop of the future.

 

The same people who cannot quite figure out the 5th outfielder situation perhaps determined that Santana is not the SS of the future, but could be a good UT

[Shane Wahl]

Santana would be the odd guy out, rightfully, in a Mastro situation. That Bartlett thing is so, so, so atrocious in every way.

 

But the Twins are 23-21 right now.

[Shane Wahl]

Also, I do think that Eduardo Escobar is the best tradeable asset outside of Suzuki and maybe Fien and Duensing at the deadline. James Beresford looks like a legit candidate for the IF Util role in 2015.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If the Twins are anywhere near .500, I don't see them trading anyone except maybe Correia if he's still on the team. After three losing seasons, I think the front office will try to field a competitive team for as long as they possibly can without sacrificing anyone who can't be easily replaced in 2014.

[Mike Sixel]

If the Twins are anywhere near .500, I don't see them trading anyone except maybe Correia if he's still on the team. After three losing seasons, I think the front office will try to field a competitive team for as long as they possibly can without sacrificing anyone who can't be easily replaced in 2014.

 

Ask Torii and Johan if they agree with that......

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ask Torii and Johan if they agree with that......

 

Big difference. They were leaving via free agency and the Twins were a decent team. They weren't coming off three consecutive 90+ loss seasons and fighting to re-engage an increasingly apathetic fanbase.

[The Wise One]

Ask Torii and Johan if they agree with that......

 

Completely different situation.

[jokin]

Santana, probably. I didn't think he belonged on the MLB roster in the first place. He should be in Rochester, getting reps at short every day.

 

Absolutely right. I hope the Twins soon come to their senses, and have thought out the situation with respect to Florimon, and drawn up a specific action plan for Santana with the Wings.

[jokin]

I'd have Mastro on the 25 man until Fuld returns then make a decision what to do with him.

 

As for the 40 man, I'd have pushed Matt Guerrier off into the sunset and possibly thrown a flaming torch onto the raft.

 

Guerrier's return only makes marginally more sense that forcing Bartlett onto the roster. It's like someone at One Twins Way in the offseason planning meetings wrote

 

"We need to re-establish a veteran presence that exemplifies the Twins Way"

 

as a bullet point for changing the culture, and by golly, they were going to follow through with checking off that bullet point, whether or not it actually still made sense in the light of day.

[WLFINN]

Has Nunez played any infield since joining the big league club? because he is the backup SS if/when Santana gets sent down is he not?

[JB_Iowa]

Guerrier's return only makes marginally more sense that forcing Bartlett onto the roster. It's like someone at One Twins Way in the offseason planning meetings wrote

 

"We need a to re-establish a veteran presence that exemplifies the Twins Way"

 

as a bullet point for changing the culture, and by golly, they were going to follow through with checking off that bullet point, whether or not it actually still made sense in the light of day.

 

I think someone did write or say that. Gardenhire basically said it at the end of the season.

 

Interestingly, I think it is Suzuki that is establishing a veteran presence the exemplifies the (old) Twins way. Didn't necessarily have to be a re-tread.