KirbyDome89

Maybe, but I think that has more to do with a reluctance to admit failure than a belief he can be an actual asset in the pen. At best he's on mop up duty and there isn't much to suggest he'll be able to handle even that.

Why not take the chance that the FO can identify a pitcher and salvage something, even if it's only temporary? That was a large part of their selling point. Worst case scenario, as you put it, we watch a Shoemaker-esque performance in the short term. If there isn't anybody on the 40 man at this exact moment there are 5ish arms that'll be available in the near future that can at minimum eat some innings.

Look, I'm not caping for Barnes or Jax in particular. My issue is with how the roster space is being utilized. I agree with you, that in general, 40 man spots shouldn't be treated haphazardly, and if you can avoid exposing players to waivers it's almost always preferable. I think the combination of a historically awful bullpen, some really bad back end starting, and an awful record has put the Twins in a situation where conventional roster management isn't the best option. There's significant turnover at the bottom of any 40 man roster. I'd be more concerned about limited opportunities for these fringe guys if the Twins, by some miracle, find themselves near contention next season. Even if that's not the case, there's still a decent chance they're 40 man casualties in the near future. The likelihood any of them are even moderate contributors next season is low. Right now we know this team isn't competing and they have 3.75 months worth of innings to evaluate. Whether it's Jax, Barnes, Vasquez, ect doesn't really matter, the point is that there's more value in getting an extended look at potential filler now than sinking more innings into Shoemaker.

Calling it a "why not," move seems overstated given how truly awful Shoemaker has been coupled with the fact that he has no future in this organization. I don't understand how Jax or Barnes can be disqualified from picking up starts based on their lack of prospect luster but we're lamenting the potential of losing them. Neither is being thrown onto the 40 man; Jax is already there and Barnes will need to be or risk being selected in the Rule V. The only way either is lost is if they're DFA'd and claimed, or selected in the Rule V. The Twins have an opportunity to give extended auditions this year, and the one in question comes at the expense of one of the worst pitchers in baseball.

Why does their prospect ranking matter? In a lost season why not start to find out whether some fringe 40 man arms can contribute? Both pitchers listed are former college pitchers already in their mid 20s. If the Twins simply need innings eaten to bridge the gap until Maeda and Pineda are back then why not someone with even a modicum of upside fill them? I just see absolutely no value, or point, in continuing to give Shoemaker the ball.

Jax falls into none of those categories and he was just called up. If Pineda isn't out any extended period of time, Ober is an option as well. Duran should be considered before too long. If the argument is that the Twins just need an arm to throw innings, then play the waiver wire carousel. Honestly, the results can't be any worse than what they're getting from Shoemaker.

What is gained from Shoemaker starting another game for the Twins?

I don't see any justifiable reason to cut Sano in a lost season and then potentially pay him to play elsewhere. The move should 100% be off the table. I don't know what his odds of being claimed are, but I'd imagine most teams would roll the dice on getting him for the minimum rather than commit to taking on his salary.

The Twins bought low in '17 when he was coming off an injury and again following his suspension in '19. I don't want to commit to more than 2 years or a high AAV either, but if Pineda avoids major injury this season I think the odds of having our cake and eating it too are slim. This might be his best chance to cash in during FA.

Colome gets his first taste of high leverage work since imploding throughout all of April and he promptly gives up a walk off in 2 pitches. You can't make this stuff up. Just feed him middle innings in meaningless games and hope so poor team at the deadline decides he's worth a flier....

There's a 0% chance he doesn't test FA. If the Twins refuse to pay him then you're right, it's rebuild time. I'm holding onto a small hope that they can convince/pay him to stick around. Regardless, the Twins aren't getting an answer on whether he'd consider resigning at this time. Berrios isn't committing to anything when FA is 1.5 years away, so I'm opposed to the notion that if he won't sign long term prior to this trade deadline then he has to be dealt. Probably, but that's also an incredibly niche market no? You'd need a find a team that has the pitching talent and is willing to deal it. They'd also need to either be ok with Berrios walking or be willing to pay him. Lastly they'd need to view themselves as a true WS contender and in that "one piece away," mode. We're in agreement there. Something has to change regarding this FOs approach to pitching.

Berrios, hope Kenta bounces back, hope the FO is able to fill at least 2 rotation spots with something other than fliers and projects? I didn't say the outlook was roses but giving away Berrios all but guarantees a full on rebuild, not a reset for a year or two. Conversely, what's the pitching plan if he's moved? What team is giving up a front end prospect that's a year or two away from the majors for the opportunity to pay Berrios to be that guy? If Kenta bounces back this year or next we're likely having this same conversation about him; good pitcher on a bad team with 1.5 years left. We've seen the difficulty this organization has had filling a few back end spots each year, I don't want to imagine what the rotation will look like with 4 slots open. If we agree that the Twins are light on pitching prospects, how many eggs are we putting in that basket? Maybe it's selfish, but I'd rather not race towards a stretch of baseball like we watched in the mid 2010s. If they're going to tear things down to the studs and be terrible again, I'd rather the Twins at least take one more shot at putting a good team on the field for 2022 and hold a fire sale next July if necessary.

Dealing Berrios isn't punting on only one year and then kick starting the next Twins run for 2023 and beyond. I hope everybody advocating for a trade realizes that. Balazovic hasn't thrown a pitch above high A yet. Duran has 37 unimpressive innings at AA; I guess we'll see how AAA goes this year. Both are currently on the DL, which itself is another hurdle. Van already said it, the pitching pipeline in this organization isn't exactly about to burst. Expecting either of the prospects to replace Berrios or even jump into the lineup within the next 1.5 years and be effective at the major league level seems overly optimistic.

I definitely agree Berrios would bring back a better return, but wouldn't dealing him essentially be signaling the beginning of the rebuild neither of us think is necessary at this moment? The Twins would have to replace 4/5 of their starting rotation for next season, not to mention fill in the the talent gap left by Berrios' departure. I don't have much faith that this FO can adequately fill three spots for next year; losing Berrios would seemingly make that issue insurmountable.

Astudillo's last 14 ABs: .429/.429/.857 Astudillo's previous 50 ABs : .280/.275/.380 Even the 50 AB sample before his recent power surge is buoyed by a couple multi hit games to start the year. He spent the three weeks prior to this little streak slashing .220/.214/.293. I don't even see an average offensive player. The weak bat coupled with his inability to be even an average defender at whichever position the Twins deploy him is the reason for the criticism, and it's valid.

I'm not sure I'd include Berrios in the blame game. Kenta has been disappointing but his HR rate won't stay this high, and if the expectation was that he'd pitch at or near where he was last season then that's on the FO. I was in favor of the extensions Kepler, Polanco, and Sano received. The Kepler and Polanco deals looked phenomenal after their '19 breakouts. Neither one is a financial albatross and if development breaks right the Twins could have Kirilloff, Larnach, and Arraez to step in. Of the three I think Sano has the best chance to turn things around. If he's indeed going to be a worse version of Mark Reynolds then his contract will sting a bit but I can't fault the FO too much for these moves. They're misses, but I think their on field impact (hopefully) will be small. The FO has always used the dart throw/waiver wire approach with the pitching staff, and I've bitched about it for years. This season the Twins just don't have the offense, or the back end anchor(s) to hide it. It's year 5 of Falvey, and developing arms was his claim to fame when he came over. Where are they? I can't understand the Rocco angst. 14%? Really? Apart from purposeful sabotage, I don't know how he could negatively impact a game so much as to be responsible for such a large percentage of the losing. Yeah, I've disagreed with some substitutions, bullpen usage, and quibbled over lineups but these guys are all (allegedly) professionals and Rocco can only cook with the ingredients he's given.

In his last 16 games not counting tonight he has a .234 OBP and overall a .604 OPS. That's brutal....

Colome was gifted that K to start the 8th as well. The guy just can't be anywhere near games that are close at this point. The Twins don't have the luxury of finding out whether he can regain some semblance of a major league pitcher.

The 2006 comps came up a lot in '18 when the Twins got off to a lackluster start. That '06 team had 2 pitchers performing at a Cy Young level and they went 37-15 through June and July. There really isn't anything about this 2021 version to suggest either is happening. I think the more realistic hope is that Chicago and Cleveland stall out around .500 and the Twins can capture the title with a win total in the high 80s/very low 90s a la 2003. That still requires MN to play at a 95ish win pace for the remainder of the season on top of getting some help. I realize these were some "not all hope is lost," scenarios but the fact that it's late April and the Twins might already need a May like '15 is pretty brutal.

I believe the "ready," comment was sardonic. We've heard for the last few weeks that AK isn't ready because ST stats I guess suddenly matter. Despite that the Twins brought Kirilloff up for a doubleheader with BOS when there were 5 other position players that could've started in LF. Coincidently, the call up happened to not affect his service time, as he was the 27th man. Unsurprisingly he was sent back down immediately following those games. LF has been a black hole. Neither Cave nor Garlick has looked even semi capable. What other variables am I missing? Service time manipulation is less of an indictment than saying this FO prefers to watch a LF that features Cave striking out 50% of the time and Garlick proving he's a AAAA guy.

Conversely, how many teams that got off to poor starts like you mentioned above didn't sniff the playoffs, let alone win the WS? I honestly don't understand this notion that the Twins can play sub .500 ball until June and then just flip the switch and play at a 100+ win pace for 4 straight months.

That isn't how baseball works. Split the difference and say they're 12 games under .500 by May 31st. Their record is 21-33. We'll say 94 wins captures the division. The Twins would have to play at essentially a 110 win pace for the next four months to reach that number. I'm ok with some patience; we're two weeks into the season. Digging a huge hole for the first couple months and expecting to flip a switch and climb out isn't likely to end well. There are plenty of loses baked into the schedule for even the best teams.

Good to see dutchoven45 getting some shine on TD. Twitter....

I'm not defending Astudillo, or that AB, but if his lone skill isn't even usable in PH situations his place on the roster seems head scratching. I wasn't on the Astudillo train leaving ST but his contact ability and "versatility," were touted as the reason for having him on the active roster. We know about the defensive issues, and now he's a part time PH candidate.

His ability to make contact is pretty much his only plus asset. A leadoff PH appearance in extra innings where the runner on 2nd should, at minimum, be moved over one base is likely the best way to use him.