chpettit19

I don't think the Rays would be interested in adding Vazquez to Rortvedt as they've been pretty open about wanting better offensive production from their catchers. I'd have to check and see what the rules are for trading Rule 5 eligible players after the deadline, but I'm not sure they can trade Olivar right now. If the Rays really want him they can just take him in the Rule 5 and offer the Twins something much less than Kelly and Cleavinger to keep him in their system if they decide they don't want to carry him on their 26-man all year later. And, fyi, Winder was released by the Twins on the 13th so he's not longer with the team. I like the idea of adding someone like Kelly, but productive players on pre-arb deals are not cheap and I don't think a package like this would be enough to get it done.

“Obviously with the full benefit of hindsight, especially so, the catching results and production last year did not meet our expectations. That’s on me, first and foremost." "There’s some guys out there that can help us. More a matter of going through it and seeing where it ends up. One way or another, we have to have better production than what we had last year if we want to win more games than we did last year.” Couple quotes from Erik Neander, President of baseball operations for the Tampa Bay Rays on 11/8/2024. This article says they like Rortvedt but they're looking to upgrade the catching position, as seems pretty clear from the quotes from Neander. I don't think they'd be willing to take on Vazquez at his full contract, though. And since his bat is the significant question I wouldn't think he'd be the type of guy they'd be looking to pair with Rortvedt who's bat is also the significant question in his abilities.

Who are you suggesting the Twins trade to get Mr Kelly? May be cheaper financially, but certainly not cheaper to acquire. Rays don't just give away pre-arb players.

I'm not saying to completely ignore those sorts of things, but the #1 variable, in my opinion, should be talent. Okert had a job last year because he was left-handed. He wasn't more talented than other options they had, but he threw with the other hand and they wanted to be able to put him in there when those scary guys who stand on the other side of the plate came up for a 3rd time. And he was actually pretty effective at getting them out (.564 OPS against in 65 PAs). He was just completely useless at getting the other guys out (.984 OPS against in 95 PAs). Which made him a bad member of the team. And the new rules make it really hard to deploy guys like him against more lefties than righties. Especially lefties who are bad at hitting lefties. What are the odds that the Twins would end up with 8 guys with the same repertoire and release point? They certainly shouldn't be training their guys that way. They should be maximizing how each guy's body moves and building their repertoires around that. And then from there just give me the 8 most talented guys at getting major league hitters out at any given time. My argument here is the same as with the lineup. Stop trying to find guys who do a singular thing well and give me the best baseball players. I don't want anymore Okerts or Margots just because they throw with their left hand or stand in the right-handed batter's box.

No thanks to Jesus Luzardo. How many more injury riddled players do we need on this roster? The man has made 20 starts in a season 1 time in his major league career. He's topped 100 major league innings twice, and one of those times was 100.1 innings. Starters aren't throwing 200 innings anymore, but a guy who can't even throw 100 isn't of interest to me. I understand that Luzardo's ceiling is very high and he can be a very good starting pitcher, but this team needs guys who stay on the field. Adding yet another "if he goes against his entire career data set and actually plays an entire season" type player isn't of interest to me. And I get that all pitchers are injury risks. But let's not target the extreme injury risk guy coming off a season where he made 12 starts and threw 66 innings. Especially when he missed time with "elbow tightness" during that shortened season. 2023 is the only season since 2018 he hasn't been on the IL. People talk about how the Twins wouldn't/shouldn't trade someone like Joe Ryan this offseason because his value is diminished by being hurt this last season, but he threw 135 innings in 23 starts with a 3.60 ERA and 3.44 FIP. Jesus Luzardo had 66.2 innings in 12 starts with a 5.00 ERA and 4.26 FIP. Larnach is all he's worth. If that. The Twins' players aren't the only ones who lose value when they perform poorly and get injured. Luzardo doesn't maintain his value just because his name is the same. Luzardo is the guy you target because you aren't going to offer full list price as he comes off yet another injury. The chances of him being traded this offseason are incredibly small because the Marlins are very unlikely to deal him knowing they can't get value for him. They'll keep him and give him a chance to reestablish that value. And the Twins should still stay away from him when the Marlins try to dump him and his injury problems on someone for full list price at the deadline. Also, the position player side of this roster is a far bigger concern to me than the pitching side. Trading away hitters for pitchers doesn't make sense to me. Trading away hitters for hitters who play more would make some sense. But the offense is what let this team down, not the pitching. The offense collapsed and failed to score runs. That's why they missed the playoffs. Fix the offense (and defense).

There is absolutely a path to an incredible bullpen for the 2025 Twins. Unlike the 2024 Twins, this pen could be built on young(ish) guys who throw gas with filthy breaking/off speed stuff. The 2024 Twins pen that people were calling the best pen in baseball before the season was built on one-hit-wonder veterans in their early- to mid-30s with health concerns and middling stuff. This one could be built completely differently. But we're talking about the Twins so the disclaimer of "health permitting" needs to be applied. Jax, Duran, Sands, Varland, Alcala, Prielipp, Canterino, Stewart, Henriquez, Raya, Adams gives you a really nice base of arms to dig into as the season goes along and injuries and bad performance happen. You can add Funderburk, Moran, Topa, and some others to the list as well. The key to a good pen is either luck or options. You can't prepare for luck so you gather options. They have options. I like the position they're in as of today. With the 3 batter minimum rule I don't care about handedness of relievers much. I just want the most talented relievers I can get. The elite left-handed hitters in the game can hit lefties so I'm not bringing in a worse pitcher just because he throws with a different hand. The bad left-handed hitters get pinch hit for or are surrounded by right-handed hitters, or both, so bringing in a lefty to face them often leads to that lefty facing more righties anyways. So if he's not as good as the righty it's not ideal. I'll carry a pen full of righties if those 8 righties are better than any lefty options I have available to me. With the rules in place today relievers need to be able to get out hitters on both sides of the plate. It's why Okert failed. Don't worry about righty lefty. Get the best arms you can get. They have a pretty good stable of them right now. Never hurts to find better, though.

I didn't ask if they existed, I asked if you had them. I'll take if from your response that you won't be providing the support to what you said. You implied that Jeffers was doing things his own way instead of how the coaches were doing things. Or at least that's how I understood it. I apologize if I misunderstood. Maybe you just mean he went to Driveline to rework his throwing motion. That wouldn't be weird at all. I don't need quotes to the contrary. The assumption is that players are doing things the way the team coaches them. You're the one claiming the contrary. Again, why should I have to ask him? You're the one making claims, very strongly, on numerous threads, but don't have any real evidence. Do you have examples of why we should view Vazquez as a great mentor? Has he mentored other young catchers? Because you don't believe he's successfully mentored a 2nd round pick who made it to the majors in 2 years and had multiple above average framing seasons before Vazquez got here and has above average pop times in the 2 years he's been with Jeffers so I'm curious why you believe he's a "member of the core" for his mentoring ability when he hasn't been able to mentor Jeffers. What can he do in 1 year with a different young catcher that he couldn't do in 2 with Jeffers?

You have any quotes you can show us about Jeffers apparently ignoring coaching and catching how he wants? If Jeffers was putting in work to improve his catching why didn't go to vital core mentor Vazquez?

The contract didn't look like solid value when it was signed. It was pretty universally seen as an overpay because he didn't want to come to MN but couldn't get anyone to give him three years so came here reluctantly because the Twins were the only team willing to go 3 years, 10 mil per for him when nobody else would. It was a questionable contract from the jump, it just turned out to go way worse than expected way quicker. If the Twins can clear the full 10 mil and sign any of the other nobody veteran catchers for half the cost they should do it. It's not overly useful, but when you're looking for every last dollar you can get for payroll may as well save 3-5 mil here. But the second you have to eat salary and don't have a minimum salary catcher to take his place just keep Vazquez for his continuity with the pitching staff. And I'm definitely not giving up a real prospect to get rid of Vazquez because they got desperate in and went 3 years and the Pohlads got cheap now.

The failure of the Twins is in drafting guys who have high chances of sticking at SS in the majors. Being drafted as a SS and being a likely major league quality defensive SS are 2 very, very different things. The scouting hasn't been a problem, the Twins just tend to care more about the bat than the glove when drafting. Noah Miller being one of the more notable exceptions, but he was traded away. But, generally speaking, you shouldn't pay much attention to the position listed when a player is drafted if your goal is to determine where they're likely to play if they reach the majors. It really doesn't mean much of anything when it comes to projections for where that guy is likely to play in the future. You want guys who played up the middle in high school and college as it likely means they were better athletes than their peers, but it doesn't mean they're all that likely to stick there as they progress.

Raya is 100%. Olivar depends on what their plans are with Vazquez, Jeffers, and Camargo. I don't see them carrying 4 catchers on the 40-man, but if they are serious about moving one of the others they'll protect him. Don't see them protecting any of the others. We do this every year. Freak out about losing guys. Especially position players. There are very few position players selected in the 40-man. I don't see anyone else who needs protecting who isn't a dime a dozen type prospect. Losing Baddoo was the end of the world a handful of years ago and the front office were the biggest fools ever, and now he's never talked about because he's an easily replaceable player like basically everyone else selected in the Rule 5. Most overhyped part of the offseason every year.

It is honestly a very interesting decision to sign for $1 mil in Korea this early. Kyle Hendricks just got 2.5 from the Angels going into his age 35 season coming off a year where he had an ERA of nearly 6 in 24 starts. That's pretty telling, too. Can Martin Perez find a job? Michael Lorenzen? Colin Rea? Carlos Carrasco? Lance Lynn? Kyle Gibson? I'd guess more than 1 of those guys signs a major league deal for more than $1 mil. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/news/rangers-predicted-reunite-reliable-veteran-10-mullion-deal/506537aee68cbc61b66f7db7 Is Kyle Gibson with his 4.24 ERA, 4.42 FIP, and 1.35 WHIP anything more than a back end starter? He's apparently going to get a $10 million deal. Even if it's half that. If I'm Cole Irvin I'm asking my agent why my numbers are basically the same and I'm playing in Korea for a million. I'd love to understand better why Cole Irvin signed in Korea for $1 mil already.

When multiple options are provided the best option can very reasonably be referred to as the likely ceiling. Multiple options were provided. Reasonable people are referring to the better option as the likely ceiling. And its a very reasonable ceiling to be named for a pitcher with his velo and concern over control. Not seeing the controversy. The more controversial take on Cory Lewis at this point would be suggesting his likely ceiling is anything higher than back end starter.

Cole Irvin wasn't even close to a back end starter? He had a 4.07 ERA in 16 starts. 4.20 FIP. 4.49 xFIP. Sounds an awful lot like a back end starter to me. Absolutely horrid reliever, though. "His future roles likely oscillate between being an up and down arm, and a back end starter." The article seems to call back end starter his ceiling. Or at least his likely ceiling.

I'm not a fan of swing-at-everything guys. If they can teach him any semblance of plate discipline he has the contact skills to be a dangerous bat. But he hasn't shown it yet. Once you get to the upper minors it becomes much harder to succeed when swinging at everything. And it's REALLY hard to succeed in the majors that way. The key to his future is learning plate discipline. If he can do it 10 will look way too low and the Polanco trade will look foolish for the Mariners. If he can't 10 will look way too high and the Polanco trade will be a nothing burger.

I'd use Varland as a 2 inning weapon out of the pen from now on. I don't know if Canterino can even stay healthy as a pen option at this point, but I'd never throw him for more than 1 inning at a time for the rest of his life. I'm really not sure what I'd do with Prielipp. If there's any reason at all to believe he could throw 140+ or 150+ innings in 2026 then I'm following whatever path gets me there.

You want the Twins to give up a top-100 prospect or borderline top-100 AAA pitching prospect along with a top-end MLB closer to get a single catching prospect? Catching may be expensive, but it isn't that expensive!

That's my thoughts. Basically, if the Pohlads already had a buyer when they announced they were starting their search and they're really just wrapping things up at this point we aren't going to hear anything other than "we've sold the team," but if they really are just starting the search there will be rumors and a bunch of "so and so is putting together a group to try to buy the Twins." Or at least that's how it's been in the past with basically every other team that's ever sold.

Should the Twins do their due diligence and make the call? Absolutely. Should they invest any real time beyond that when they're told Roki hadn't even thought about them? Absolutely not. It's always worth a call, and the guys subject to international pool money are the only ones the Twins ever have a shot at, but there's no real chance they sign him.

Why would this be unlikely? Maybe I'm out of touch and things have changed, but isn't the norm the exact opposite and there are lists of interested parties for almost every sale of pro sports teams in every major US sports league? The Marlins sale wasn't 99% done before we started hearing rumors about numerous potential buyers. The Orioles recent sale is the only one I can think of that was kind of a quietly done one that was suddenly just an "oh, by the way, the team is sold." Otherwise, every sale comes with a list of people looking to buy the team. Curious why you think it's unlikely we'll hear anything until the deal is 99% done.

You'd think he'd have known better than to announce a payroll decrease a month after their first playoff series win in 2 decades then, but we'll see! Maybe he's a quick learner.

Oof, Tanner Schobel at 17? Give me basically everyone on the "just missed" list over him. He'd barely crack my top 30. Couple young, toolsy outfielders. Always good to have them as they fail at crazy rates, but they're also the ones who suddenly click and fly through systems to become stars. Agree with @DJL44 that I'd like to see some more arms on the lists today. I know there's some coming, but I like to see them all up and down the list because most of the ones coming still are going to flame out so we'll need more following up behind them. Not the end of the world by any means, but not ideal.

My initial gut reaction would be that all of these moves are to save the Pohlads pennies while they get this thing sold. I have to believe anyone buying a billion+ dollar Major League Baseball franchise isn't tricked by any changes made to the payroll of the major league roster or in the front office over the last 24 months. Now maybe I'm giving these guys way too much credit, but I'd think they're doing (well, paying others to do) a little deeper dive into the books than looking at the 2024 revenues vs expenditures. So I tend to agree with this being about being a good soldier and slimming expenses as well. I don't know what the answer is to fan engagement, but I know it's not what they've been doing. And I know when you're not being handed a check from an RSN it's even more important. Weird time to choose to sell, but hopefully Falvey knows more than DSP when it comes to driving fan engagement. The bar isn't high. Falvey has to know any new owner is very likely to look at the entire organization and a multitude of business ops options and not just role with him. So I'd think it's more likely he's getting a nice little Christmas bonus while the Pohlads let St Peter "step down to spend more time with the people who really matter" and save themselves some cash. I just hope there's somebody out there looking at the Twins who sees some obvious steps to take that can get this thing to another gear. Like Lore and ARod with the Wolves. Prime example of getting the right people in charge and an entire franchise changing over night.

Isn't the vast majority of non-revenue sharing revenue now based on fan engagement? Ticket sales/game day revenue and streaming/TV subscriptions? I'd think that means the Twins, and thus the person in charge of the business department, has a lot of impact on revenue. The TV deal being done doesn't mean the same thing it used to. Now it means the team needs to get to work. The check isn't in the mail like it used to be. They have to go earn their money now.

I think if they increase revenue and still own the team in the future they will have higher payrolls, yes. Nothing I have said has been about spending more on this year's team. Nothing. Not one thing. You said: "They'll know in a year if it is sold. If not, and if they don't like what Falvey did, they move on. It literally has zero impact on the Pohlads at this point. They could lose half their fortune and not have anything bad happen (in reality, but they'd be sad)." I bolded the key "in a year" part. I haven't said a single thing about them investing in this year's roster. Not once. I directly refuted your claim that I was talking about them investing in this year's roster. The paragraph you claimed didn't mean anything was about the future because it was in direct response to your paragraph about the future. It matters if Falvey is terrible at this job. If he tanks their revenue for a year it effects the 2026 Twins if the Pohlad's still own them, and possibly if somebody else does. I care about that team, too. Not just the 2025 Twins. That's why I care about this move. I don't know why it's controversial to suggest Derek Falvey being bad at driving revenue is bad for the Twins. Unless the Twins sell before he has the chance to take over this job it is bad for the Pohlads trying to sell and it is bad for team building. He may not be bad at it, but if he is it is bad all around. Not sure why that's a controversial thing to say.