chpettit19

"Blew up?" "Send a message?" We're talking about the play where Vargas slid 3 feet short of KC and he gently, but slightly awkwardly, stepped over him after his throw? My goodness, you guys would need to do a lot of "message sending" if that's all it takes. Shelton would've looked like a fool on the field going crazy over that, and Jeffers, Jenkins, Keaschall, pick your favorite Twins hitter, wearing 100 in the ribs would be awfully upset with any pitcher who caused it by throwing at Vargas.

He likely already has private coaches he uses during the offseason. Or, if he doesn't, he'll get them if there's a lockout that bleeds into the season. Like most professional baseball players. They aren't working with team staff during the offseason, they're working at baseball training facilities with their private hitting, fielding, or pitching coaches.

Fair. I'm certainly not going to claim this org is well run but not bringing him up at all this year would be a whole new level of failure. They'd likely face a grievance from the MLBPA/Walker Jenkins/Scott Boras if they hold him down while he performs like he has this month.

What service time have they suppressed? If they don't call him up at all this season, you'd have an argument. But he was never going to make the opening day roster or be up in the first couple weeks of the season, so he was never going to get a year of service time this year. If they don't IL Buxton and replace him with Jenkins starting tomorrow, it's a very real problem. Especially if Buxton is sitting on the bench for the whole weekend. Jenkins was more name than AAA performance/dominance until about 3 weeks ago. He's clearly flipped a switch, and it's time. But the idea the Twins have suppressed his service time in any real way is a pretty big reach.

I'm not really worried about which order they come in, especially because it's only a 4-day difference, but Jenkins is the bigger name and the better PR move. No reason to give fans another thing to point and yell at when it's easy enough to just bring Jenkins up now and Emma next Tuesday.

Twins off day today. Put Buxton on the IL. Bring Jenkins to Target Field to get comfortable with his new clubhouse and get some swings in. Put him in the lineup in CF to start the homestand tomorrow. Emma up on 9/1 with roster expansion. Bring Buxton back if Cleveland hasn't finally put the sub-.500 teams to bed. If they've pulled away and the playoff field is essentially set, let him get surgery if it's needed or just a few extra weeks of rest heading into the offseason while the kids get some experience for 2027 and beyond.

"Then something interesting happened. The Twins started winning enough games to make the postseason a realistic possibility." I'm sorry, but this should say "The Twins started losing few enough games in an historically bad league to make the postseason a realistic possibility." This team has been on the exact pace nearly everyone thought they'd be on for nearly the entire year. Mid-70s in wins. The league only having 5 teams above .500 in August does not mean this team has been good. They haven't. They are what we thought they were. The rest of the league just sucks, too. They should absolutely be trying to make the postseason at this point, but pretending like they're forcing the postseason possibility by winning a bunch of games is nonsense. 1 team is going to back into the AL playoffs. I hope its the Twins. But whoever it is sure isn't earning their way there. Unless somebody flips a switch like the Red Sox did.

If I'm the best employee they have who's more impactful on their business being successful than anyone else and my inability to attend work is legitimate? Yes. But, more importantly, I'm not a professional athlete who needs to be healthy to perform my job duties. So, it's an awful comparison.

They aren't barred from practicing baseball. Most of the guys in professional baseball have trainers and coaches on the side. They go to specialized baseball training clinics during the offseason and work with personal hitting, pitching, or fielding coaches. Yes, if there's a meaningful number of missed games next year, Walker would miss those game reps, but he'd still be training and working on his skills. He could even get together with Twins pitchers and have them throw him live BP so they're both working on their craft and getting better. The threat of a lockout is weighed far too heavily by fans. Should a team like the As take it into real consideration? Sure. But nobody anywhere near a playoff spot is worrying about a possible lockout costing games in 2027 when making decisions about calling up somebody like Jenkins.

Jenkins is playing more and more LF these days. My guess is that the debut is near.

Hey, that's a 13% jump in zone contact rate! At this rate, he'll be at 100% in 3 more seasons. He won't be long for professional baseball if he doesn't make some pretty crazy strides in that department.

He's continued to look like a ball player during his time in the majors. That gives me all the hope I can have about any prospect early. Reason to believe he belongs. I'm excited to see how he adjusts and where his career goes from here.

No problem at all. I didn't think there was any disrespect or anything like that. I enjoy the back and forth. I can guarantee you there's people in the front office making your arguments and people in there making mine. Our little TD front office with no say in anything at all is enjoyable because of the disagreements and other view points. This season has provided the opportunity for even more debate because of the craziness of being consistently below .500, but also in the playoff race. Been one of the more enjoyable TD seasons in recent memory with all the different realistic ways they could've gone with decisions.

It was delayed because he was hurt. If Emma was healthy, he'd have debuted this year for sure, if not last year, at the age of 22 or 23. Marek Houston is on the Lee, Keaschall, Culpepper path of debuting roughly 2 years, or less, from the date he was drafted. Gabby Gonzalez debuted at the age of 22. Henry Mendez is going to debut at 22 or 23. As previously mentioned, Prielipp absolutely flew through the system in terms of innings pitched. Walker Jenkins is going to debut at the age of 21 or 22. And, again, Walker Jenkins has been hurt every year and was barely above average at AAA until a light went on about 2 weeks ago. Calling him up just because fans know his name is an awful decision making process. He's just now earning his call by sustaining true, above average production. Its pretty wild to suggest the Twins have been delaying top prospects from debuting the last few years or that they've done anything crazy conservative with Jenkins. As pointed out above, he's going to debut with roughly 400 fewer minor league PAs than Clark had. And Clark got promoted as an injury replacement. Not because the Tigers cleared some path for him.

And Clark was only called up because the Tigers have like 6 OFers on the IL.

Didn't Zoll just add some Culpepper guy to the 40-man and call him up? Wasn't he a "top prospect?" Didn't the Twins call up Brooks Lee 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was the GM? Didn't they call up Luke Keaschall 2 years after drafting him while Zoll was GM? Didn't Connor Prielipp have barely more than 100 minor league innings before he debuted while Zoll was GM? Wasn't Walker Jenkins a slightly above average AAA hitter until about 2 weeks ago? Isn't Jenkins 21 and in AAA but has suffered serious injuries in every season of his career? I get that people want to see him, and the Twins definitely hoard below average veterans far more than I'd like, but some of you guys are making it sound like the Twins are holding Jenkins back while he's 23, 24, and 25. I'd love to see him. They could force him into the lineup and it wouldn't be ridiculous. But he's also only been a clearly dominant AAA player for about 2 weeks. He's earned his way up at this point and I expect him, or Emma, to get a chance when an everyday role opens up. Making it sound like the Twins are refusing to call up top prospects is ignoring the reality of what they've actually done with their top prospects and what Jenkins has actually done at AAA. It's entirely reasonable to have the 21-year-old who's missed significant chunks of time in every one of his professional seasons still at AAA. It's still a very quick promotion schedule. And it's only random TD posters claiming the lockout has any bearing on anything. Again, the Twins literally just called up a top prospect.

Well, Roden has better AAA numbers than Jenkins, if that matters. But it isn't even the point. The point is that Roden isn't worthy of real playing time. So, he doesn't get real playing time. Zoll's "corporate speak" was actually explaining why MLB team don't call guys up sometimes. Because you don't want Walker Jenkins getting 27 PAs in 16 games. Or, more recently since Buxton's been back, 6 PAs in 6 games. You want Jenkins getting 27 PAs in 9 games. In the last 6 games you want Walker getting 20+ PAs. Walker Jenkins doesn't fill Roden's (or Martin's when he got hurt) role. He fits Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, or Bell's.

A 3-time batting champ. It is not comparable in any meaningful way. I understood the point; it's a bad point. Comparing a kid who's never played in the majors to Luis Arraez is ridiculous. And shifting Bryce back to the OF where they already knew he could play because he's played more than 7000 more innings in the OF than at 1B, or moving IFers around (which, by the way, the Twins already did this year, moving Royce to 1B from 3B, like Bohm, is what helped open SS for Culpepper) is very different than putting Keaschall back at the spot they already decided he couldn't play. Zoll, Shelton, et al don't believe Jenkins is likely to provide more impact than Buxton, Keaschall, Bell, and Larnach. That is what Zoll was saying. And it seems pretty obvious that is the thought process.

I think the trading part is important here. I was all for trading Larnach or Bell or Jeffers or any number of players at the deadline. Rumor has it the Twins did nearly trade Larnach. And, while Doug was a wiz with the glove, he had an 83 OPS+ for the Twins that year. That's also quite different than Buxton, Keaschall, Larnach, and Bell this year. And, Morneau had debuted the previous season. It wasn't his first ever exposure to MLB. And he was 23. Was certainly a veteran moving for a young guy, but there were also some pretty real differences.

We all have our days/threads, my friend. No worries here.

Who said it'd be an outlier? That's not the argument I've seen made. The statement is simply that he's still very young and that's a piece of the equation. He is still very much "super-young" in a baseball sense. That's the point you actually prove. There's 8 of those guys BELOW AAA. And only 4 in the majors. He is very much young. His age shouldn't be a stand alone reason to not call him up, but it doesn't mean he isn't young and it shouldn't be part of the equation when making these decisions.

I'm sorry, Mike. Nothing but respect, and we often see things very similarly, but "So he doesn't come up next year either, if they keep Larnach? Because there's no opportunity?" "They had an injury.... And called up a third catcher. " "Why aren't the twins as good as Milwaukee, people ask..... Well, they play rookies a lot. Cleveland has something like a dozen young players? The Twins? Old." "So, never call him up realistically?" "I'll ask you the same, if you believe these are the four best hitters, why aren't you bringing them all back next year? And if you do...." "Are you actually arguing the Twins haven't preferred veterans over rookies the last decade plus?" You have very much been framing this as bigger than just "he's not up now and I get it." You've been spinning the "this clearly means they won't call him up next year either" thread since your very first post on this thread.

No. If they bring those guys back, Jenkins is very unlikely to be on the opening day roster. But he'll get plenty of opportunity if he's healthy. Because other guys won't be. I'm arguing people care too much about the opening day roster. And, like Lewis, Wallner, Julien, Arraez, etc. once Jenkins gets here, if he performs, he'll steal a job. But, mainly, I'm arguing it has nothing at all to do with this discussion right now. You're trying to make it sound like since they haven't called him up now, they'll never call him up. You're trying to box people into a corner about him not being on the opening day roster next year being some confirmation that they're doing something crazy. And I'm refusing to go into that box because it ignores so many other things.

That is certainly a possibility if he's healthy and performing. But would you be upset then? Is that the wrong move to callup the other top-50ish prospect in your AAA outfield who's out of options and already on the 40-man?

Why not?