laloesch

EXACTLY. I don't see how the Twins start Perez or Gibson in a playoff series at this point. Neither pitcher can get anyone out.

Nice analysis Tom. Really enjoyed your assessments of Dobnak, Stashak, Smeltzer, Graterol and May. I think Dobnak is the real deal.

You can always adopt more dogs

I'm not quite sure yet if he's ready for post season relief work with 7 innings so far but I think the Twins can use his help. Long term he has the potential to be a dynamite closer and if he adds a third pitch to hi repertoire he could be a lights out starter. What i like about Graterol and Dobnak as well is their lack of fear in attacking the strike zone. That's awesome to me. They've had sooo many starters in the past that don't have that mentality it's refreshing to see this.

I think Thorpe is starting material long term. In some ways its a blessing in disguise that guys like Smeltzer, Thorpe, Dobnak, and even Graterol are getting experience down the stretch here.

Just because they used them doesn't make them legal. They were still cheating. Diuretics are a banned substance by the NCAA, NFHS and every State High school athletic association. If you get caught using steroids or diuretics in high school athletics it's an automatic two year suspension in most states. If you played a varsity high school sport your coach (if he was a good one), should have gone over the rules on doping. They did on our football team and soccer team when i played.

Not to be debby downer but against the Stros, does anyone honestly believe it's going to matter who the Twins start against Verlander, Cole, Miley and Greinke? I mean Berrios might go 5 or 6 innings, Odorizzi maybe 4 innings tops. The are gonna have to lean heavily on the bullpen anyways if they have any shot at all. Might as well go all in and gamble on Smeltzer, Dobnak, Graterol, Alcala, et. Forget about Gibson and Perez.

I agree but it's not gonna matter anyways. The Twins don't have the starters to compete with any of the playoff teams at this point. Anything is possible i guess, but i just don't see it when you have to rely on Gibson and Perez who have both been awful down the stretch here.

I'm inclined to say neither and let Dobnak get that third start. Yeah i know it's extremely risky but Gibson is an automatic loss at this point and Perez is not much better. Losing Pineda really REALLY stings.

I'm also excited to see more of Dobnak and Graterol. I wouldn't start Perez though. He's an automatic loss against a decent team and I rather take my chances with someone who has some gas on his fb and other weapons. Perez is a one trick pony and one dimensional which is why teams have figured him out again. Smeltzer is turning me into a believer and i think the reason he is successful so far is his diverse offering of pitches.

At what point do the Twins put Gibson on the Injured list and just tell him he's done for the season? He's obviously not well. With Dobnak and Smeltzer starting decent games he's not needed now.

I think it depends on who the Twins resign or trade for. If they don't bring anybody in to fill a slot Pineda's suspension becomes much more painful considering he was arguably the team's best starter the past month and a half.

If it was up to me I think the most i would offer him is a one year deal and a team option. He needs to prove he's trustworthy and not about to fall apart based on his "choices" and what he puts into his body. I'm more inclined to move on due to the fact that he's put the team in such a difficult position at this point in the season. And what about the games he's suspended next season and the disruption to the rotation carrying on into 2020? Sometimes you just have to know when to call it quits.

Agreed and i gladly eat crow. If they can pull off a series win against Cleveland that would be a BIG BIG Victory for this team.

if Devin Smeltzer keeps pitching well I think he could factor in.

Hopefully a second win happens today. Crossing fingers

I don't think you understand what i'm saying. You are diving down into the proverbial rabbit hole pulling up the technicalities, procedures and sequence of events of past PED suspensions, which is fine but irrelevant to me considering my earlier posts never got into the comparison conversation other than to state that Pineda is not the only one to get caught for PED use. I don't doubt that testing, procedures, and how penalties are handed out by the commissioner have changed since Arod's suspension but again, that was never my point and never implied by my earlier posts. I'm not sure where you are going with this to be perfectly honest. My original message is simple and states that Pineda got caught for taking a banned substance (Diuretic) which IS NOT a diet pill and he got smacked with a suspension as a result, which IS 100% TRUE. He's also not alone in being suspended for something like this which was a response to Brock's post, nothing more nothing less. I'm more than happy to debate whether or not he knew what he was doing (I don't buy it, but that's my opinion and i'm entitled too it), but that changes nothing and at the end of the day the team won't benefit from his services after paying him 10 million dollars two years ago, while allowing him to rehab and work his way back this season. I don't know what else there is too say and i'm not gonna argue with you for the sake of just arguing, it's not productive and it's pointless in this discussion..

I agree. The way this team is playing Cleveland easily sweeps and then it's a crap shoot as to whether or not they can squeak out enough wins against the White Sox, Royals and Tigers to beat out the Indians. Meanwhile the Rays and A's are right on the heels of the Twins from a win / loss perspective. I think this thing goes right down to the wire. They could very easily be on the outside looking in come Sept. 30th.

There not gonna make it.

Sure they are and the examples aren't that old. You can spin it all you want but the examples do exist and they are perfectly valid.

I can think of three or four posts in this thread alone where people have said diurectics are diet pills but that's beside the point. The whole point of taking a diuretic is to kick your kidney's into overdrive and cleanse your system of whatever may be in it. Dehydration and over urination are simply side effects. Every diet pill i could find online had stimulants and laxactives, but no diuretics to speak, at least the legitimate ones. Ingredients like ephedra,ephedrine,pseudoephedrine, etc. So you are taking him at his word that he didn't know what he was taking and all of this was just to lose a few pounds keeping in mind that we are a month or two before the end of the season, he's 6'-7" and 270 pounts to start with, risking it all when he could make the post season for the first time in quite a while in his career? Yeah okay.

my thoughts exactly

I still think you throw out #3 because like i've said over and over again in this thread diuretics ARE NOT diet pills. Everyone knows that. They temporarily reduce the amount of water in one's body which anyone who works out seriously knows is the exact wrong thing to do if you are attempting to get into better shape. Dehydration is not advantageous in any scenario of weight loss unless your are trying to make weight for a wrestling match and even then it's definitely not good for you and makes you less competitive because you are dehydrated.

Yes but the examples do exist.

Alex Rodriguez got his suspension significantly reduced and so did Eliézer Alfonzo.