DocBauer

Having a great eye, and a great stroke, and big power potential doesn't mean you have a golden ticket to ML success with very little milb time. I have always been fluxomed by those who see a very, very few who transition to the MLB level with little to almost zero time at the milb level. So generational players mean everyone else are poor prospects? Larnach has the tools and was rushed. And I guarantee you he learned a lot. So did AK. So did Celistino and Rotvedt with their early arrival which will pay dividends. Larnach is going to be fine. He has a great arm and decent defense and a high offensive profile. Same with AK who is almost the same player. BOTH are going to be FINE and part of 2022 and beyond. It just takes a little time.

Well, I'm always an optomist, but I really like what I see on this list. While it's really too early to make blanket statements, I can appreciate the opinion that position-wise there may only be a couple 2 or 3 potential difference makers. There are a few young athletes only in their first year or two that have the tools to make them reaĺy exciting another year or two. Just s couple general comments: 1] OF: Despite Rooker being on this list, he's going to "graduate" from prospect status soon. AK and Larnach have already graduated. This would seem to leave OF a little light. But I like Celestino a lot and think his floor is 4th OF with a good overall offensive balance. Urbina could be as talented a kid as we've drafted or signed over the past several years. But he's a long way away. I was surprised the Twins only drafted a single OF this year, until you look at the youth just hitting the ML. But you always need depth and don't want to leave any spot short in your system. I could see them grab a few more next year. But there are a few guys not on this list who are very recent selections/signings at A ball and lower who we could be talking about in a couple of years. 2] INFIELD: I read opinions that we're short here, especially at SS, but I'm going to disagree, overall. Opinions differ on Lewis at SS, and I'm not going to get in to a debate here, but the Twins like him there for now and he has the skills, let's just see. Maybe Martin can stick and maybe not. But my goodness, a milb rookie at AA? PLEASE keep him playing there to see! He could end up at 2B, 3Bm CF or LF or super utility with a great BAT. Cavaco has a long way to go, but the potential is there to stick. I like the Miller selection. Steer could end up as a starter somewhere, or a great super utility guy. Julien the same. And there are others. And we signed a couple top international FA last period that obviously aren't on any list yet. So while an arguement could be made we don't exactly have a glut of SS prospects that look tailor made, the infield depth is actually really exciting. Miranda! Do I have to say more? Mmmm....yes. Miranda was a high selection with projectability the Twins liked. Guess what happened? Don't downplay the number of recent selections and signings just because he and Lewis and Martin are the only TOP prospects currently. 3] CATCHER: I'm going to admit at being a little "meh" here. Jeffers and Rortvedt have basically skyrocketed through the system. But there are a couple of kids who are showing some ability and power in the A leagues that are at least intriguing. I'm glad they grabbed 3 In the draft though I'm unsure if they signed all of them at the moment. We're not exactly desperate here, but a top pick next year may be pertinent. 4] PITCHING: PLEASE baseball gods, just a LITTLE luck and grace for health and development! (Aren't the Twins due)? This list is heavy with real arm talent. Some of the best I've ever seen in the system. A couple will wash out. A couple will almost certainly turn out to be good/great pen options. A couple should almost certainly become quality ML SP. The talent is there, and you're never quite sure who they will be. Rememeber the mantra; "The best way to find 2-3 quality SP at the ML level is to have 8-10 arms to work with". We have that. I understand patience is difficult and frustrating. And I understand impatience for the FO to produce a pipeline that was hoped for. But how fast does anyone expect that pipeline to develop? HS or college, you draft and then develop. Results should only take 3-4yrs? Especially with an almost completely lost 2020? Wow! Pipeline results? Have you been watching Ober? He was a decent ceiling, probably low floor, draftee flier who has been advanced very aggressively despite limited IP and no 2020. But he has worked hard to re-build his delivery and has been adjusting and learning on the fly and looking like one of the best rookie arms we've seen in many years. And he wasn't ever ranked as a top prospect. Just a guy the FO liked. I am uncertain about Jax. He was a high pick the Twins saw with projectability and believed would be released from his military obligation. He wasn't. So his first couple of years was nothing more than a handful of games. So he is a potential late bloomer who just may never turn out as hoped for, But in limited action, promoted aggressively, he's been looking like a kid who MIGHT have a shot to actually make it in some capacity. Just saying, a couple guys....leaving Barnes out of any discussion at the moment...have been showing actual potential and they aren't even TOP prospects. I'm feeling very good about what we are going to see over the next year or two from the system. The Twins will say they didn't deliberately draft LH pitchers in this past draft, and that's fine. But I think they did. My hunch? A year from now we may be viewing Hajjar as another Winder. Big 10 baseball is far better than most people realize.

If the Twins make a HUGE investment on a 2yr or 5yr deal for one of the top SS on the market, I'm not going to cry. I'll be tickled pink, dance a big, etc, I just don't think that's the direction they are going to go, and not sure they should. There are a whole lot of reasons to look at the Twins right now and feel very optimistic about the offense/lineup/depth next season. And despite all the young pitching talent in the system, if you really want to contend, pitching is where the $ has to be focused on. I don't think we should LOL at Simmons. Even slipping, he's quality defensively. His offense this year has been aweful after April. But for his career, his offense hasn't been dreadfully aweful for a generational defensive talent. I am NOT saying anything NEGATIVE about him as a person, but he has caught a lot of flack for his early covid illness and opinions. And I don't recall anyone ever stating was a problem player in any way for any team he has been on. But sometimes guys just don't "fit in" with a team, I have no idea if he "fits" on this team. But I wouldn't dismiss him as an option so easily for 2022. I think Iglesias and Galvin are both interesting options for next year. I think Galvin might be the better idea. My initial thoughts are a 1yr deal with an option. I am frustrated that Palacios hasn't been promoted to St Paul yet. I guess it's my understanding that despite production and a decent glove, the "hit/contact" ability may not be where they want it just yet.

BTW, yes I'm obviously a homer, but 30yrs the memory fades a bit until reminded of some things. I remember 7 games and Puckett and Morris and Larkin, etc, with a little prodding I remember more. I don't know if history will mark this as the best WS ever...but it has to be in the conversation. It was incredible!

A perfect win on a celebration night! It couldn't have gone better. Two quick comments: 1] Don't dismiss Maeda for 2022. He's probably not a Cy Young runner up, and maybe not the equally amazing pitcher he was in ST this year before the entire season went to crap. But don't think he isn't/can't be a top of the order pitcher next year. 2] Is there a chance Rooker is starting to look like a real force as a DH and fill in OF/1B bat who can make a difference? I'm starting to lean that way.

Great post and great questions! For a moment, we have to forget a trade could happen and, of course, guys do end up on the IL list from time to time. Donaldson is a key for 2022 and nobody can deny it. He COULD be healthy, as he's been most of this year, and provide a positive influence and transition to 1B and DH and allow progression of the prospects or he could a negative for a re-tooling team. His future absolutely agree influences initial roster construction. But let's get back to your questions. Larnach is absolutely an OF, and he plays either corner. Mostly LF with Kepler in RF. No reason he can't play both. Kirilloff is also a decent corner OF and the only reason we are talking about him at 1B is because of depth and because he looks so good there. Garver should have 600PA as a C/1B/DH. Arraez can play multiple positions AND DH. Never said he should only be a DH. People are obsessed that the DH spot should be a slugger. How about a good roster/lineup where you just put a great bat/OB hitter there? Just saying, the offensive line-up posibilites are interesting and not resteictive.

I love good defense. I want good defense. I still believe it's important in today's game. I have seen enough of Polanco at SS that I still feel he's fine as the backup. And while I don't mean to disparage anyone, much less a former great Twin, what we need is another Gagne for just a year or two. Simmons was supposed to be that guy but other than the first couple of weeks of 2021, he clearly was not that guy. It would be awesome to sign one of the top FA SS that will be available this offseason. But really, position wise, there is a ton of optimism for the offense in 2022. And $ should be spent on a SP and a couple high quality BP arms to add to the few guys we already have. Who is a SS we can get to play quality defense and not stink at the plate for 2022? We have seen Polanco be outstanding. We have seen him injured, depressed, and suspended and everything in between. But we have absolutely seen what a healthy Polanco can do. And despite a few bad plays while still adjusting to 2B on a daily basis, he's looked good to great. And yes, the best of him is still to come. STOP that Arraez doesn't have a role! Still young, bounced around position to position, he's still growing and learning. He can play multiple positions "OK" and that's fine. He can also be a DH at times. What's wrong with that? More time at 2B will only make Polanco more comfortable and I wouldn't be surprised if he won not only a Silver Slugger but a Gold Glove, FWIW. And even more time just gaining experience, I wouldn't be surprised if Arraez turned out to be at least a solid defensive player at multiple positions as well as DH at times. I mean, just be honest, you've seen Arraez make some bad plays. But you've also seen him make some great plays as well. What the Twins need in 2022 is a quality SS who can just be quality defensively and contribute offensively. Second base is locked in.

Just didn't have time to comment on the 11-15 list but have time now for this list. I think that we can even debate THIS list with the PREVIOUS list is pretty awesome. The simple fact that 1-15 seems so fluid/debatable in our minds is indicative of the overall talent and depth of the system despite "graduation" of several prospects in 2021. And I am NOT concerned about a few guys dropping a spot or two, It just further reflects the depth that still exists and the guys just brought in. I also pay little attention to age right now for some if these guys after a lost 2020. We have to realize virtually every prospect is a year "behind" where they would probably be RIGHT NOW without that missing season. So things are going to be skewed a bit, with no reflection in age. Potential and talent vs proximity to the ML level and in season production will always be an understandable debate. But that's also why these are "prospect" lists and not "who is closest to helping" lists. Also why this is an amalgam list. Cavaco: I'm OK with him at 10, though I might have slotted him a little lower. While his numbers aren't outstanding, the talent is there, and he is already leaps and bounds better than his rookie 2019 campaign. I think that's relevant. The FSL is notorious for being a tough hitting level. Is that good or bad thing for being the Twins A+ level? I guess if you can hit there, it should be that much easier to advance? The talent is there. I think he can stick at SS if he doesn't outgrow the spot. He's a few years away, but you can't deny the talent, A Javier clone if he stays healthy? Petty: Looong way to go for this kid. But what I can't figure out is how a HS pitcher who hits 100mph and has a good slider, a good frame, and was committed to a top program, and has great projectability lasted so late? While I can't recall body type, how different is he from Greene, who the Twins didn't draft a few years ago? Kid is talented and confident and seems to have just the right amount of cockiness you'd love to have in a SP. Regardless, this was a tremendous value and I'm fine if be takes 5yrs to make it. Love the huge upside pick so late. Canterino: One of my favorite prospects! Electric stuff that just needs a little more work and HAS to have a 3rd pitch to reach his potential as a SP. Some worry about his delivery. I'm not for 2 reasons. (And I'm NO expert)! He is comfortable with his delivery. He's been doing it for years now. He seems "herky-jerky"? Maybe I'm wrong, but his "herky-jerky" motions seem to come before a relatively easy release. He may be easy to steal on, but I just don't see the problem some talk about. And I think his recent IL stin is more in keeping with what we are seeing across milb and the system, guys just needing time off after missing a season. Easily top 5 mid season next year if he just stays healthy. Ryan: I just don't know enough about him before joining the Twins to say how accurate his ranking is or how to project him beyond what I've read and heard and seen to this point. Crazy as it sounds I'm giving him "moxy" points for his Olympic performance. He was pitching against mostly professionals in the Olympics. I think his stuff plays. I think his mental approach plays. Like every single SP prospect, you have to bring more than 2 pitches. And he will probably take some lumps initially. But he's been promoted in a quality organization who is known for pitching, you performed excellently on a world-wide scale, and your IP aren't too high. I'd be surprised if he didn't see time with the Twins to finish 2021. Miranda: He was a high pick out of PR as a HS player. The only negative you ever heard about him was the power potential to develop along with a good eye and solid approach. He used 2020 and winter league ball to make something out of nothing. He is not a sudden surprise out of nowhere. He is a guy they've just been waiting to put it all together. He has. I get keeping him at AAA while Donaldson was missing time to continue development and success. But he absolutely needs and deserves to be up before this season is done. You just DON'T deny a talented, young prospect with helium his opportunity! His greatest obstacle at this point is Donaldson. Can they move him this offseason and live with potential growing pains? Donaldson is still quality. Does he transition to 1B, despite depth there, or DH, again with depth there, and Miranda is initially a super-utility player? Keeping Donaldson for 2022 is a good thing. Moving him is also a good thing. Regardless, the Twins need to make room for the best and most immediate player in the system.

Strotman really intrigues me. Has a good frame, good velocity and the makings of solid secondary pitches. He misses all but a handful of rehab games at the end of 2019 due to surgery, then misses allnof 2020, and skips over AA to head straight to AAA. He could be a real gem with just a little more time and patience.

Just a couple quick comments: 1] I am a believer in Ober and his potential. The league will make adjustments. He will have to make adjustments as well. But his rookie numbers are better than any rookie I can think of in recent memory. 2] With due respect to all of us wanting changes in the pen, and super disappointed with how the pen turned out this year, there is a reason the FO grabs guys to audition. We all know the volatility of RP. And they NEED to bring in a couple good arms for 2022. But isn't it crazy that the quality veteran Colome who we all wanted gone a month ago is suddenly looking like the guy we THOUGHT we were signing? So maybe he suddenly finds himself, too little too late, but has an option year. Is it a mistake to see if maybe the initial signing wasn't so bad after all? And there are a couple others like Farrell, if and when he gets healthy. I don't expect a lot of these guys to be protected as there will be a 40 man crunch and need for 2022. But when you see Minya suddenly look like the decent arm he was a couple years ago, and see Colome suddenly look like the guy we THOUGHT we signed, you understand why the FO makes some of the moves and auditions they do.

Sticking with the OP: (reverse order from the list) 1] I know Raya is a HS pitcher and those kids always seem to have the biggest question marks attached to them. But he was my favorite 2020 selection because I liked his numbers velocity, and potential. Can't tell you how disappointed I am he has yet to see the mound. Any update on his injury? 2] Moran' s career numbers would have him higher on this list if he wasn't a RP and/or threw 92-93. We all know this. My concern is not having at least a "teaser" 3rd offering to RH batters besides his change. But he absolutely deserves a ML shot and soon. I KNOW I'm a hope-monger, but I keep thinking about Thielbar/Thorpe/Moran giving the Twins THREE BP options from the LH side joining Rogers. Been a good 15yrs since we had that. 3] IMO, the entire Midwest and Big 10 footprint has been undervalued for a few years now. And I understand why. But just speaking about Hajjar specifically, what's not to like about a tall and well built LHSP who has 90+ velocity? Only 21yo? Yes please! In a professional environment, his "touching" mid 90's will have him soon sitting in the mid 90's consistently. OBVIOUSLY his development will come down to his 2nd and 3rd offerings as well as his control. But there is a lot to like and work with. But despite being a 2nd round pick, this is where I'd slot him for now. 4] This is about where I'd slot Wander. I don't know any Twins fan who doesn't dream of him still fulfilling his potential. Unfortunately, potential is an ugly word at times. He has flashed. He entices. But he needs more time. At least another full season. I just see no reason to protect him on the 40 man. And any Badoo reference should just be stopped at the door. You just can't compare one kid to another. 5] Very happy to see Soularie actually healthy and finally playing. Just being honest, I didn't understand his selection, even accounting for a weird 2020 season with little to zero baseball played. Forgive me as I'm pulling somewhat from memory, but a great athlete with BAT potential, solid OB, decent speed, pop/power potential with no clear-cut position. He played OF/CF for Tenessee as well as 2B? Remind you of anyone? If not, first thing I thought of was an older Rosario. A great athlete who could play multiple spots and hit with decent speed and some power potential. Honestly, I think the FO has drafted very well so far. And I think they followed the chalk of BPA in a great way. But I'm not sure they did so well in 2020. Considering the Twins drafted so late last year, amidst a crazy year, it will take at least another season to figure out who drafted smart and who didn't. But I admit I was shocked when it was supposed to be a big college arm draft and the FO went the opposite direction. They clearly felt other teams were ignoring other available talent with projection. I am stunned, in a bad way, about Saboto. Hopefully we eat crow about that one. I was equally surprised about Soularie. But I DO appreciate the athletic and talented selection with projection. But unless he has enough speed to play CF, or enough glove and offense to make a difference at 2B....he'd better be a great BAT LF to make his selection pay off.

Just tossing out a few comments/opinions regarding the OP and various other comments. 1] I believe the Twins believe...as do I...that Pineda still has something in the tank and is part of 2022. I'm OK with that. I don't think I'd pencil him in for 30-32 GS, but I'm not sure he has to be with so many young arms getting so close. 2] Barnes was the next man up in the rotation and has done well enough to "deserve" a shot even though I think his best hope is a long relief spot. Jax has surprised me, and I can't help but wonder what he might still be as a late riser considering he basically BARELY pitched his first couple of milb seasons due to his military commitment. But again, like Barnes, I think we're talking a potentially solid middle guy in the pen. The Twins took a high draft shot on him hoping for the best. I applaud the gamble, but it took longer than they expected/hoped for to get full milb time. Ober has impressed the hell out of me. He is NOWHERE close to a finished product. He's still inconsistent with his stuff, and sometimes I think his stuff is moving almost too much, but with limited IP he has been rushed to MLB and more than held his own. I believe 100% the Twins are going to sign a quality SP for 2022. Who and how much I'm just not going to get in to right now. Wrong time and place. The first 3 spots will be FA, Maeda and Pineda. The 4th and 5th spots will be open to the kids. Good chance Ober will be one of those guys. Dobnak might be another. But, thankfully, there is a LONG list of quality young arms to work in the off-season and ST and the first half of 2022 and push for one of those spots. Soon! 3] Fully agree Thorpe just needs to pitch, and probably move to the pen. He COULD be a lesser version of Rogers. That would be a GOOD THING. But regardless what role you place him in to finish 2021, LET HIM PITCH. 4] I GET sending Gordon down right now. Let him play every day at multiple positions and get AB he needs to get in a positive groove. He is a potential utility player with speed and an OK bat but still has a lot to prove. I think sending him down, for now is fine, Refsnyder needs to play because we don't want to put Kepler in CF right now to make sure he stays 100% healthy. And whether he is on the 40 or signed to a milb deal, he might have a real shot at being a quality RH 4th OF next year. BUT, I completely understand Gordon over Cave at this point. Cave hasn't done anything to suggest that being fully healthy he doesn't deserve to be back up...for now. What DOES frustrate the hell out of me is not letting Gordon play SS at the ML level. You've protected him, nurtured him, stuck by him, given him a small shot and even transitioned him to CF on the fly! At some point, considering he's played SS most of his milb career AND during ST, just throw him out there and see what he's got! 5] And this goes back to Gordon as well, why is Simmons still playing SS almost daily? Is he here only because we don't want to look like an apathetic team that is willing to dump a veteran? Is he only still here to help the young pitchers have a quality SS behind them for confidence building? I don't want to be cruel, but his bat is horrendous, he's not part of 2022, and it's just time to let someone else play and show what they can do. 6] Colome and the rest of the pen frustrates me as much as anyone. And the pen needs to be addressed in the off-season. We all know this. And I want to see some new/young arms. But I don't know that you can just cut everyone....hyperbole by me...and just toss a bunch of rookies out there. Like it or not, Colome has been excellent for most of his career. He has been mostly horrible this season no question. But he's been much better the past few weeks. The Twins hold an option for 2022. Again, like it or not, he's getting a chance to see if his REAL self is back and worthy of being brought back. Not saying he will be or should be, but right now he's getting a "look-see". Farrell might get healthy and audition the rest of the year. NOT saying I agree with this approach, but I can at least see using the final 2 months to bounce guys up and down and all around to see who you want to keep or cut and maybe re-sign on a milb deal. It's not fun, it's not sexy, but spending some time "scouting" what you have and may want to bring back in 2022 on the roster as a milb invite makes at least a little sense.

I've been contemplating the intent of this OP for days now before it was written. And I've been reading and stewing on every post. And you can like me or hate me for my following thoughts. Up to you. 1] Two years ago, Berrios deliberately took the Twins to arbitration to see how the process worked. He losses, but "only" a couple thousand dollars. Last year, he settled with the Twins for a fair raise and didn't test the system. He was obviously content with the outcome, all things considered. As I recall, he stated he went to arbitration the year before to see and test the system for his future and the future of other players. If he was any kind of malcontent who hated being a Twin, why did he sign so easily for 2021? 2] Speculate all you want to, but we have NO IDEA what was presented to Berrios this year, or the last couple of years, for an extension. Period! He was willing and wanting to stay if the Twins hit a certain UNMENTIONED number. Did he want $25M? $30M? We don't know, just as we don't know what the Twins offered. While I ABSOLUTELY don't want to speculate, the offer could have easily been in the $15-18-20M range with incentives that he didn't like because he wanted to test the market and bet on himself. And that's his right, as much suckage as it might be to us fans. Where do I get my speculative numbers? Because..... 3] ...the Twins offered Darvish over $20M a couple years ago and were a finalist before the Cubs added on another guaranteed year. Decide for yourself how that turned out. The Twins then offered Wheeler $25M per but were told "no thank you" because he wanted to remain on the east coast. So just STOP with the Twins didn't try unless we hear details that provide something other than sour grapes. 4] The Twins have $ to offer one of the top FA SP on the market. The proof is $ available, previous offers, and an overall roster that is still talented and quality with some tweaks and additions. And I have no clue if they will sign one of the 5 SP listed in the OP, or will make a surprise trade, or go a short contract for someone like Verlander or Greinke. Unless he accepts a qualifying offer, my first dream signing is Thor. He might not want a long term deal. Fine. How about a 1yr deal with incentives and a 2nd year option which would be about $20M plus year one and $25M the second year. A risk to be sure but the payoff could be great! All 5 of the guys listed in the OP have at least some risk. And all come with big $ attached. But any one of them could slot in to replace Berrios if the FO makes the right choice. FA, Maeda, Pineda, or similar signing, to fill the front 3 with an open audition and rotation for the final 2 rotation spots is still a recipe for success if the pen is re-built. Other than a short option at SS, no pun intended, this IS at least a .500 team who could easily contend in 2022. There IS a SP pitching pipeline in the works! And some may find their success in the pen. And MAYBE the best option IS a Verlander/Greinke 2yr deal to just bridge a gap. I honestly don't know if the answer is about a short term, aged veteran with a year or two left is the answer, or someone in the OP is the key. But I do know there is too much talent on this roster to punt 2022. Give me the RIGHT choice for a SP addition, and Pineda or better, you'd still have $ to add a couple pen arms. $40-50M sounds like a lot, but its not in professional BB. Time for the FO to step forward.

Weird that Houston would let a live arm go. But then again, roster crunches happen. Might be a viable arm who just needs opportunity to show what he can do. Nothing to risk by bringing him on.

I was never down on him when he slumped. He's had a very, very odd career if you step back and really look at it. He was signed as a glove first SS with a questionable bat. And then the bat developed so well he was often slid down to the 3 spot on his milb team. And then the Twins, desperate for infield help, brought him up to the ML way too early and burned an early option while also bouncing him around the infield instead of being allowed to concentrate on SS. Molitor believed he could play SS and put him out there. And let's face it, all of us have seen far worse SS at the ML level than Polanco. And he mashed. Then he had a personal tragedy that really affected him. Then he had a suspension due to a masking agent and some wanted to say "see he's been juicing". But then again, he comes back and shows what he can do in a big way. THEN, he has not ONE, but TWO ankle surgeries! His 2020 was miserable defensively, but a bad ankle also effected his defense surely. But he was a gamer and was in the field day after day. He started slow this season still recovering, still getting his stance and approach and timing down. He has played a fine 2B, overall, and shows real potential at the spot. He's gotten better and better. His bat has come alive after a slow start. He is a talented, versatile, and dangerous hitter. And he is absolutely one of the best players in this team. And he is young enough to believe he is part of the future. It might be unfair to label him as a new leader for the Twins future. Everyone is an individual. Does Polanco have the personality to step forward and fill that role? I don't know. He doesn't have to be Cruz in personality. He comes across, to me, as hard working and determined and professional. Does he want to be more vocal? Can he be? Is it his time to just step forward? Or will he just lead by example? Even if he does it quietly, yes he could be a leader going forward.

I was never down on him when he slumped. He's had a very, very odd career if you step back and really look at it. He was signed as a glove first SS with a questionable bat. And then the bat developed so well he was often slid down to the 3 spot on his milb team. And then the Twins, desperate for infield help, brought him up to the ML way too early and burned an early option while also bouncing him around the infield instead of being allowed to concentrate on SS. Molitor believed he could play SS and put him out there. And let's face it, all of us have seen far worse SS at the ML level than Polanco. And he mashed. Then he had a personal tragedy that really affected him. Then he had a suspension due to a masking agent and some wanted to say "see he's been juicing". But then again, he comes back and shows what he can do in a big way. THEN, he has not ONE, but TWO ankle surgeries! His 2020 was miserable defensively, but a bad ankle also effected his defense surely. But he was a gamer and was in the field day after day. He started slow this season still recovering, still getting his stance and approach and timing down. He has played a fine 2B, overall, and shows real potential at the spot. He's gotten better and better. His bat has come alive after a slow start. He is a talented, versatile, and dangerous hitter. And he is absolutely one of the best players in this team. And he is young enough to believe he is part of the future. If I wasn't feeling a bit tired and lazy I'd copy and paste my entire comment to the OP about Polanco being a future leader for the franchise. Forgive me if I find the time to do so.

I pride myself on my milb system knowledge, so I feel better that I shouldn't know much about Manoah. I can't wait to see Moran in a Twins uniform soon. He's an arm we've read about, known about for some time, and have been waiting on. Some teams have a hard time finding a single quality LHRP for their pen. There is a real chance the Twins will be offer up THREE in their pen with Rogers, Thielbar, Thorpe, Smeltzer?, Vasquez?, and Moran as alternates. Jordan Gore interests me. He's 27yo and not big. But he seems to have velocity and has made a pretty easy transition from position player to RP. I don't think he's a top pen prospect by any means, but RP are "made" and not usually drafted and developed. There are a lot of arms in the system for him to pass to get a shot. But I just wonder if he might surprise. He's an interesting story at least.

Only to clarify my point...and not win some debate...I absolutely agree that Ober, and any SP for that matter, simply must learn to throw 5+ innings. The reason I like the plan for Ober to throw 4 and 5 innings only, for now, is two fold: 1] Two successful turns through the lineup allows him to save his arm to hopefully finish the season, refine his stuff and learn and grow, while having a little less pressure initially by not having to face too many batters a third time. Hoping this breeds growing confidence. 2] The Twins will, hopefully, be auditioning some pen arms the last 2 months. I want them to have opportunity. Also, really hoping they either go to a 6 man rotation, or do some piggybacking here and there to get some of their young starters a chance to gain experience and get their feet wet. Just my thoughts, not saying I'm right. And I continue to be frustrated about the limitations for September call ups. Teams like the Twins need to have a larger roster in order to get a number of guys an opportunity to gain experience or show they may be a viable option for 2022.

Except, he spent 2020 doing just that. He worked really hard on his motion/delivery to alleviate the aches and pains he felt previously after pitching. No reports this season of any recurring issues. And his velocity has jumped from high 80's to touching low 90's to being a consistent 92-94 with amazing extension and hiding. For him, now, it's all about working on secondary stuff and building up his arm for IP. Funny how we are so desperate for internal development for SP but we forget how bad Gibson and Berrios looked initially. And Ober, just the 1st rotational piece to reach the majors, is such a question mark when his initial numbers are better than either of them. Instant gratification happens so seldom. I predict nothing for Ober, at this point, other than just maybe being a solid back end option. Just surprised how few look at what he's done thus far and dismiss him.

I liked about every comment here because right or wrong the opinions are just smart! I applaud Shoemaker for being open and honest and taking at least some responsibility for not performing. He should. But just being a realist, not every single pitcher, or player, "fits" with an organization. We've seen it time and time again. It's reality. The Twins have COMPLETELY revamped their milb system when it comes to treating pitchers and players as individuals and tailoring their developmental approach. And we've heard from current players and previous players in regard to the massive change within the system. But I have NO PROBLEM saying Rocco, Johnson, scouts and the FO may have just made a mistake on a guy. They THOUGHT they had a really good plan for an experienced back end SP that would work. Sorry, s**t happens and you aren't always right. But then again, as Shoe states, he could have said no. And he has the right to also shake off signs. And shouldn't he be doing well at AAA as a healthy and experienced pitcher? But have to admit I'm curious why he took the milb assignment instead of going elsewhere. Makes little sense to me unless NOBODY was knocking on his door. IF the Twins think think this was bad communication and a mistake that can be rectified, I have no problem. IF Shoemaker really likes the organization, no problem. We need a couple veteran SP for 2022, which MIGHT include Pineda. But could Shoe, previously quality in his career when healthy, be an option? Please. Shoemaker is trying to get a contract for 2022 and not really blaming anyone because he doesn't want to rock the boat. He's at AAA FOR THE MOMENT, because he's a good guy and provides IP. He's probably gone a week from now due to additions and promotions. Over and done, it was a really smart flier for a talented but frequently injured SP that just didn't fit.

I'm just keeping it real here. Despite his video game numbers in milb I was surprised when the Twins added him to the 40 man. I saw numbers that couldn't possibly be sustained and saw Aaron Slegers part 2 in Ober. And I was confused he didn't go to the instructs following 2020 if they liked him enough to protect him. (Totally understood not being in St Paul last year as he wasn't seen as a depth piece for a contending team,) And I'm going to argue against Cody's comment about his stuff. Great control, a solid change and slider is something to work with. Velocity was definitely an issue, despite his vast extension and ability to hide the ball creating extra, perceived velocity. But again, I had serious doubts. And the injuries and reports he often didn't feel good after some starts definitely concerned me. BUT, some funny things happened on the way to Target Field, to badly paraphrase an old idiom. The tall and lanky Ober spent 2020 working on his mechanics. (Might have grown more in to his body as well). Thus far, we have had ZERO reports about physical issues with his body due to a more fluid delivery and better mechanics. Those changes have seen a consistent 4-6 MPH uptick in his velocity. He had 14 games in 2019, 13 GS, only 4 at AA, and his numbers were, again, outstanding. He jumped to AAA to begin 2021 and started only FOUR games tbere before being promoted. And the FO is never aggressive? I've seen all of or parts of most of his starts this season. I've seen a FB with movement that plays and real potential with his slider and other pitches despite needing some work. I recall his 1st start, which I believe was 4R in 4IP with some K's, and Smalley stating it was maybe the best 4R 4IP he had seen, meaning potential. He is a ROOKIE SP who missed 2020 and barely played at AA before making his MLB debut. He has a 1.27 WHIP right now and is averaging over a K per IP. Just how much better could he be doing at this point? I can understand debates out his IP. Is it better to extend him, build his arm up and then shut him down? Or is it better to be gradual and work on stuff and slowly extend him? I'm in favor of the latter and piggy back or work in some other 2022 pen options to get a chance. But other than just being dominate and blowing everyone away for 5-6 IP every time out, what more could we expect from a rookie pitcher being promoted this aggressively after not pitching for a year? I think he has a real future as a solid 4-5 SO. Anything more is gravy and to be decided by time and experience.

I think you hit the nail on SS. There ARE a couple really nice options coming forward really soon to compete, including Lewis, when healthy, and Martin. Palacios should be up to St Paul TOMORROW to see if he is for real. It's time to push some of these kids. Doesn't mean the only 24yo Polacios is a bum if he doesn't continue to rake. It just means you believe in him and are challenging him. To me, I'd be looking at the best fill-in at SS I could find for 2022. I'm playing amateur GM. The Simmons move didn't work out but most of us thought it would. S**t happens. Polanco will only get better and better at 2B given time. Arraez is a smart and productive BALLPLAYER who will only get better and better with opportunity and experience. He is PERFECT in his role at 3 spots and some DH. Who decided DH has to be a banger? Maybe someone like Galvis woukd be perfect for one year?

One thing I feel is so overlooked is the results of 2019-2020 with a rookie manager and a mostly new coaching staff. ROOKIE manager Baldelli lead this team to a pair of outstanding seasons. Wes Johnson helped make immediate differences both years for the pitching staff. Rowson was so well regarded as a hitting coach he got a promotion to bench coach for another team, Marlins IIRC. Shelton was so highly regarded as a career milb coach/manager and his job as bench coach for the Twins he got the Pirates job and might have been the Mets coach, again IIRC, before controversy over Houston changed the complexion of things. Jeremy Heffner was the Twins ASSISTANT/BP coach before being hired away by the Mets as their primary PC. Sawyer came in and not only changed how our catchers set up to receive the ball, but also changed how they got batting practice, before they were worn out from just catching everyone. Mike Bell seemed like a really smart hire as a Shelton replacement before never assuming the role due to cancer and his terribly unfortunate early demise. There is a very recent history, despite one aweful and disappointing year, that maybe this FO knows how to change things. They have an almost immediate history of finding high coaching talent good enough to be poached by the rest of MLB. Past players have commented on how the NEW Twins way is about individual development vs some old school formula. And I am not picking on LastOnePicked or anyone else. We all have the rights to our opinions. Period! I just get frustrated that "Twins suck", "Rocco sucks", "FO suck" when we are talking about a horrible, disappointing season. It absolutely, positively, "sucks". But sometimes s**t happens, even when you least expect it. And blame is easy. It's what happens tomorrow that is important! Me....stepping off my stool.

The context is really, when broken down to the rub, did they do well. You can't be happy or feel good that Cruz and Berrios are gone. And I am not going to debate on extension offers/efforts for Berrios. I hope nobody else does either. That ship has sailed. On top of that a] we really have no idea about said offers or Berrios's hopes/demands, and b] I grudgingly accept that unless he was blown away by an offer, he is determined to test FA, which is his earned right. But I know I am sad to see the guy go after watching since he was drafted. What grade would I give the results? I'm giving the EARLY results a solid A. I think it's way too easy to simply claim the FO got quality back because they traded high quality. The FO COULD have botched the return by insisting pitching only, and missed out on a top talent, or, they could have done the old "quantity vs quality" route we have seen in the past. They added THREE talented arms with real potential and what would seem to be solid floors with some good to even high ceilings. Don't give me some ACE arguement. Nobody drafts or trades for an ACE. You get good arms and develop them and some, here and there, turn out to be an ACE. The rest turn out to be a solid 1-3 and quality 4-5. A few turn out to be quality BP pieces and sometimes superior ones. (Of course some wash out, not ignoring that fact). Disk from the Cardinals is LH and breathing with high SO numbers and some control issues, He is also only 24yo and at AA with a little over a season of milb rookie and low A ball before missing 2020 like everyone did, I wish I knew more about him but haven't been able to find much in way of his "stuff" after a couple quick searches. But for Happ? A flier is a win. Gant is not old. He may have been a DFA by the Cardinals. He's a body they picked up. Maybe he's one of those guys who find something and click with a different organization and different coaching. Maybe he's gone tomorrow, Doesn't matter. Happ is gone and they got a young LHRP as a flier. Enough said. Not going to lie, I'm intrigued and stunned by Scherff from Boston without even knowing what he throws. He's only 23yo and was their 5th round selection in 2017. He didn't pitch until 2018 where he put up fairly pedestrian numbers at rookie and low A ball. Same with 2019 at low A and a single appearance at A+. Again like everyone else, he missed 2020. This season he was moved to the pen and began the season at A+ where he looked really good before moving to AA a few weeks ago. He has been pretty much outstanding since the move to the pen. Bullpen arms have value too. And for a 2 month rental on Robles, this MIGHT be more than just a cheap flier. A grade for the FO? Not sure what I can add to what I already said. They sure didn't blow the moves they made. But I am going to respectfully disagree with Tom, Nick, Seth and Matt (via their statements in podcasts), I just can't downgrade the results of the moves made because the FO didn't do "enough". I just don't believe there was a market for Simmons, having probably his worst career year. Rogers being hurt took him out of the trade market. I don't think you could have moved him even if you wanted to. (IMO, they wouldn't have unless blown away for various reasons). I think Pineda would have brought back SOMETHING if moved. And while I am about 70-80% certain a re-sign has been discussed, a trade and re-sign may have complicated that idea. And call me foolish if you will, I kinda like the comments from the Twins as to reasons for keeping him. Value vs flier/prospect and the such I'm OK with this. Trading Kepler made no sense to me unless blown away. And I've spoken about this before, so will leave that alone. For a lot of reasons, moving Donaldson would have been smart and nice. I only heard 2 rumors of interest. MAYBE there was more? But how much do you have to give up $ wise if you're the Twins to make any move? They guy has been durable and productive in a lousy 2021 season. IF his attitude doesn't go all to hell next year, he could be of far more value than the $8-10M you might have saved by trading him and "buying out" most of his contract. So I get the, "we could have done even more" objections, but I disagree.

Agreed. But look at the talent and untapped potential still.. And despite some pedestrian numbers, a huge improvement over 2019. And he's had some good streaks and shown his power potential. How much more could we be seeing if he had 2020 to start this rebound? I'm not sure the Twins will have the room to protect him this offseason. And maybe they shouldn't. But it could be a dangerous decision not to. Again, I think he and the Twins "lost" more on/for him than any other prospect with the lost 2020 season.