DocBauer

I'm going to treat this thread a bit differently that the BP OP because for starters, no pun intended, there are far fewer options/names to consider. First of all I'm eliminating both Stashak and Thorpe from this discussion. I'm eliminating Stashak because he has already reached the "if healthy again, he could re-establish value in the BP and has already moved on from a rotation spot option" part of his career. I am also, grudgingly, moving Thorpe to the "too much has happened and his arm just never came back from surgery and now he has to transition to throwing as hard as he can, and use his other stuff, to try to carve out a role in the BP" part of HIS career. Sucks! DOBNAK: Like many pitchers, and many top prospects, injuries completely foiled his 2021. I believe the FO missed the mark on him to begin the season by ignoring his impressive ST and deferring to the veteran Shoemaker initially. It sounded like a good idea at the time, I guess, letting Dobber sit in the pen and trust in a Shoemaker rebound. But not every pitcher adapts to easily to such a change in roles. I just can't ignore his 2019 or what he did in 2020 for us and dismiss him for 2022. Believe me, I don't WANT to say this, but I could see a scenario where the Twins via FA and/or trade, pick up a pair of experienced SP and just trust Ryan, Ober and Dobnak to fill out the rest. I just think that's asking too much of 3 young arms. I believe the Twins will come up with 3 arms....more to come on that....and Dobber will compete with Ryan and Ober and someone will go to St Paul. SMELTZER: Yes he's a tremendous story! I wish him the best! But with so much young talent across the roster, I just don't think I can protect him. Previously, he's shown be can be a solid fill-in piece in the rotation and the pen. I'd love to have him back in a milb deal. BARNES: I just don't there's enough STUFF to keep him unless he's the 39th/40th guy. I watched him closely his last start and saw high 80's and a couple low 90's FB and a couple really nice breaking and off speed pitches. Also so a few hung and crushed. I think he's done enough, shown enough, that if it turns out there is room, go ahead and protect him. Otherwise, expose him and see what happens. Love to have him back for depth and hope. GANT: He's had SOME success as a SP in his career, and has looked surprisingly solid for the Twins thus far, starting almost out of necessity. What I think the Twins have is not some late bloomer, but a solid middle man who can be stretched out and fill-in, If they expect more than that, I think they've shot low. He could be a solid BP piece with versatility. JAX: Oh, what might have been! The Twins were confident the military was going to change their demands/restrictions and allow him to persue a professional career. But it took 2 1/2 years for that to happen and it probably happened too late for him to reach his potential. And yet, despite rather pedestrian numbers, he's actually been solid in his milb career and has been promoted aggressively by the Twins, albeit out of necessity this season. At the ML level, he's been quality the first time through the order. The Cubs game the other day he supposedly couldn't feel the ball for his FB. But his slider looked great. And I thought it was his secondary stuff that was the problem? As a back end SP option or maybe a quality middle RP option I like him and would absolutely protect and keep him.

Going to preface my comments with a couple quick points: 1] With $50-60M available to spend, IF the FO/ownership IS intent on competing, there ARE ways to add to the top of the rotation via FA and trade to do so. I'm NOT saying they WON'T, just stating an obvious caveat to be considered. And that flows in to my second initial point... 2] Whether they go big, semi-big, or pull a rabbit or two out of their hat to add to the rotation...whatever...the pen has to be able to be counted on. (As best as you ever can considering the volatility of bullpens in general). I am way more confident in a possible pen for 2022 now than I was a couple months ago, and it's not just SSS and smoke and mirrors. LOCKS: That would be Rogers, Duffey and Thielbar. Unless the Twins know something they refuse to share, the expectation is Rogers will be healthy. Can't argue with what Duffey has done the past few years and his rebound the past few months. Despite some inherited runner problems earlier in the year, Thielbar has been a find, and a good one. NEAR LOCKS: Alcala, Minaya and Colome. If you've watched Alcala this year and not just read box scores and the such, you woukd have seen wicked stuff, SO, and some quality work. Mixed in, unfortunately, have also been 2R HR after dominating a couple of batters, But the flashes have been there. And he's looked really good the last month or so, he has to prove he's turned a corner. Minaya has a solid history and by all accounts I've heard, looked pretty solid in 2020 at the alt site. He's been good at St Paul and seems to have unlocked something the past 30 games plus. And please don't shoot the messenger on Colome! Despite his atrocious April and May, he's been very much his career self since June, despite a couple bad days. With his buyout figured in, he only costs about $4M for 2022, which has been previously pointed out. I believe he leads the league in saves since July if I read the stat correctly the other day. I think we have to look at his career and what he's done since June and just realize he'd probably be an excellent 7th-8th IP RP who COULD close a game. Whether via his option or a re-worked deal, he's back. FRINGE: Stashak, Garza, Garcia, Garcia, Farrell, Coulombe, Baraclough, Burrows, Vincent. The Twins are far smarter than I am, as well as much closer to the situation. There are almost undoubtedly a couple of these guys they have seen enough, and liked enough, to protect. But I suspect that is it. Just one or two and the rest allowed to walk or re-sign on a milb deal. Stashak may be an outlier from the rest. Despite relatively SSS, he was very good in '19 and '20 with high K numbers to start 2021 but poor secondary numbers before he was lost due to injury. Has he shown enough that you don't want risk losing him? WHO I DIDN'T CHOOSE: Gant and Moran. Gant is a given to be protected, but I am unsure about the Twins plans for him. He's had limited success as a ML SP and has looked solid thus far doing so for the Twins, almost out of necessity at this point. But I sure hope the plan is for him to be in the pen in 2022! Moran is a given to be protected as well but I doubt he's a "break camp" arm. Only reason I didn't include him. WHAT'S LEFT TO DO? Sign one quality late IP arm for $5-7M. FINAL CONCLUSIONS: Think about this pen to begin 2022: FA Rogers Duffey Thielbar Colome Alcala Minaya Gant Between a couple protected options and others not even discussed in the "who survives" portion of this discussion, not to mention young SP who can also fill-in, would you feel good about that pen beginning 2022? I would. The one negative I see here, which others have broached, is a pen with limited options. My arguement would be, if you have a really good pen, and at least a DECENT rotation...different topic...does the "option" situation matter as much?

ATTEMPTING to keep it brief: 1] Dobnak: In a season where everything went wrong, I'm not sure it could have gone any more wrong for one guy, that being Dobnak. An obvious miscalculation by the entire organization was committing to the veteran Shoemaker vs just taking a shot on the young prospect that was looking great. I have never expected greatness for Dobber, but he blew through 3 levels in 2019 and finished strong Before being put in a very awkward position of starting a playoff game against the Yankees. He was great to good for a little over half of 2020 and helped the Twins win the Central. HEALTHY, and given a real shot, I'm still very encouraged for him in 2022. Just keep him as a SP! 2] Colome: The pitcher he's been since June is basically the pitcher we THOUGHT we signed. Am I upset if they pick up his option or sign him to something smaller. Nope. Just as long as he's brought back as a middle man or potential setup man and he doesn't get in the way of ANOTHER $5-7M arm to team with Rogers. Because we need that along with another $2-3M Robles/Clippard sort of arm. I think we have to stop blaming Colome for a lost season and just realize he was only a small part. He's already bounced back in 2021, Don't sacrifice the 2022 pen by letting someone go who could help make a difference just because a horrendous 2 month stretch in 2021. 3] Jeffers: I love so much about Jeffers even though I think he's still developing. I just never fully bought in to the fact he would continue his 2020 production. It was just too much, too soon IMO. But I think he's more than capable of growing, developing, and actually being the 2020 version of himself going forward. But I love his ability and potential as a quality ML catcher. I also like a LOT of Rotvedt's game and potential, but he was as rushed as much as Celestino was. Garver should be the #1, no arguement, IMO. But if Jeffers finds his bat, to any degree, that allows Garver more and more to play DH, maybe some 1B, and stay in the lineup daily splitting time behind the plate more easily.

Dude, MLB has screwed with the September promotion in a big and bad way. We all know this. It used to be about promoting a few prospects for the next season. And it also allowed a guy or two to be rewarded for his milb career and get his cup of coffee at this level. Yes, it's OK to have a feel good story at the end of the season. Before MLB screwed with September call ups, it was about auditions as well as a reward here and there for a call up who was a "good soldier" and deserved his shot and cup of coffee. And he absolutely deserved it.

Roger hit on a point I was wanting to make. Unfortunately, the 40 man is an evaluation and guessing process that once in a while you are going to make mistakes with. It's basic math, a 25 man projected roster and only 15 more additions to protect. And EVERY team has a few of those 15 spots filled by lower level players that you don't necessarily expect to play for you that year, but simply have to protect. Celestino would be an example this year. I would have liked to protect both Badoo AND Wells. We all would, and so would have the Twins. But realistically, they seemed "safe" to not protect. Wells hadn't seen the field for 2years and neither had Badoo, more or less. And both were also coming off surgery. I don't know about you, but I was a bit surprised when they were selected and basically shocked when they were kept. I really expected both to struggle as young, inexperienced players and be returned to the Twins. And you can't use revisionist thinking now to see someone like Smeltzer, for example, who would end up hurt and miss almost the entire season. Smeltzer, again as an example, was seen as a useful depth piece for a team expected to contend, vs protecting someone not expected to contribute after missing 2yrs. I am not the least bit happy we lost Badoo and/or Wells. And we can say the FO blew it by not protecting either or both. But honestly, when is the last time you saw TWO rule 5 picks from a single team make the ML roster of a team and stick? And how many of you actually thought/predicted these two were going to do what they've done? I am NOT defending the FO here, mostly because I'm not sure they need to be defended for all the reasons I've stated previously. But in a year in which so much has gone wrong it's way too easy to point an extra finger of frustration at the rule 5 and sound off "See?!" For the record, I wouldn't have protected Badoo, no matter how talented being an A level prospect coming off injury and a lkst 2yrs. But I probably would have protected the older Wells who had reached AA. I think I would have gambled on health and projection that he might have been ready to contribute late in 2021.

I just love stories like this! It's part of the history and mystique of baseball, the "Crash Davis's" of the world getting their cup of coffee. I think this is well deserved and I'm happy for him. All the more reason I'm still upset with MLB for changing the September call up numbers. Come on MLB and fix this mistake for 2022 and beyond.

You have to keep Kepler. I think he's a much better overall hitter than he's shown this season. And we absolutely need his defense, great in RF and solid in CF occasionally. I have no doubt his injuries have affected him this year. It's been obvious at times. And I'm going to continue to bang the drum of the Twins needing a quality RH 4th OF so Kepler, and others, can sit at times against LH pitching. I'm still good keeping Sano, though I wouldn't be upset if he was moved as part of a deal for a SP. I can live with his "streakiness" as a hitter because he's very dangerous and can carry a team at times. But, generally speaking, I want him hitting around 6th-7th. I think his defense is better than what the error numbers show, though I think he was better last year, which I don't get. Big target, great arm, great at scoops and digging balls out. He'll share 1B with Kirilloff, maybe Garver, and also DH. He's just too dangerous to dismiss, but should keep that dangerous bat lower in the order. OBVIOUSLY SP is the #1 concern. The Twins HAVE to make a major investment in someone to lead the staff. And they have the $ to do so. I'm not sure who that guy will be, but Stroman just jumps out to me as the obvious choice, for various reasons. Is he going to cost $18M? $20M? I don't have the answer, but he or someone similar is key. Next, the FO just has to pull out another Odorizzi/Maeda type trade. The system is deep enough they SHOULD be able to find a match for a good, solid SP with a couple controllable years without having to make it hurt. This may be harder to do a 3rd time, and harder than just using $ to sign a FA. But that's what the FO is paid to do. I believe they then need to keep Pineda, or sign someone similar. (IMO, Pineda is almost a done deal). Ober and Ryan fill in 4th and 5th with Dobnak, healthy, as competition and depth. But there is also tremendous depth beyond that with beyond that coming up. But you just have to have 3 decent veteran types to lead the rotation to at least begin the 2022 season. From there, things can become fluid. It sounds easy. doesn't it? Target a guy or two at the top of your list and just get it done. Do what you've done before and do it again. Then sign a solid veteran to a 1yr deal, or maybe a 1+1. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as it sounds but it's what they need to do. IF they can do that, however, they will have proved their abilities. Next comes that 4th OF I'm banging the drum for. Then comes a pair of RP for $8-10M to add what we have. I just don't know they have the $ to sign one of the TOP FA SS. But as nice as it would be, do they have to? A quality defensive SS who is OK with the bat, and the offensive ability/potential of the lineup might be all we need. Galvin? If Simmons had been the hitter he was the last 3-4yrs he might have been a great signing. Didn't turn out that way. Could the Twins believe he might rebound and be that guy again?

Barring a surprise, I think they keep him. In fact, unless someone picks up about 100% of his deal, his greatest value is keeping him. Actually paying someone to take him doesn't really offer that much salary relief, especially when you consider how little we may get back vs what he can produce if relatively healthy. He MIGHT be an interesting 2022 trade piece if the Twins aren't contending or have a viable replacement in place. I find point #4 regarding his personality to be interesting. I'm not saying he is a bad teamate. In fact, I think it's just the opposite. Since he was signed young players have gravitated towards him and he has responded with leadership and advice as a sort of mentor. But to coin an old expression, he is a "red ass". His team loves him, and opponents hate him. Think AJ back in the day before Mauer took over and just about every team AJ played for. He has been quite healthy for this year and has basically produced to career norms. I think he is mature enough in his career to recognize and appreciate his DH usage to keep him fresh. And really, this team could maybe use a little "red ass" to keep everyone sharp and determined. I will argue that when he doesn't play 3B the Twins are destitute there, (And yes, I'm hoping for AT LEAST 60% of his games being spent there). Arraez has gotten better there the more he's played there. Not great, but OK. And 3B might be Astudillo's best spot. And this prospect named Miranda may just take over the position at some point in 2022. I'd keep Donaldson 100% unless someone picks up his salary and offers something back you can't turn down.

Interesting idea. And Torres is a young player with BIG bounceback possibilities. But too many question marks and seems to MAYBE be Polanco part 2. Complete pass. Despite being a fan and believer, I'm grudgingly going to admit the talented and athletic Kepler probably peaked in 2019. That being said, I think a slightly different approach, through experience, maturity, and a change in the hitting coach that I think is forthcoming, I can still improvement of what he's done lately. Better health would help as well. Kepler/Twins need a quality RH hitting 4th OF via trade or FA. This is a MUST overshadowed by pitching needs that far too many dismiss. Barring significant growth/change, Kepler should start 120G, and will probably play in 140 as a PH or defensive replacement. He is good to very good used that way as a RF and backup CF option. Call me crazy, but I think the offense is fine for 2022 with what we have, including Kirilloff healthy and Larnach being ready at some point. Not to mention Garver healthy and splitting time between catcher and DH and MAYBE a little 1B. The offensive approach just needs to find a little more consistency. I would be excited, as we all would be if the Twins made a major FA move at SS. But I think they are better served with concentrating on various SP/RP moves...long and short term...and said 4th OF and bringing in a SOLID SS option. Galvin is a guy I'm high on. But I also have to wonder what happened to Iglesias? Did he just suddenly lose it? He could be very interesting.

This list is perfect, though I could see arguements in regard to rankings. But I will comment based on the current list. 3] Ober: He's supposed to be in AAA considering his draft selection and injury history despite video game numbers when he was on the mound. He's worked very hard on his delivery to not only increase velocity, but to just feel healthy after each start. Tall and lanky, he was prone to injury. Suddenly, with hard work, he's found a fluid motion that has not only increased velocity, but he's gained a smooth and repeatable delivery. He's even tweaked his slider delivery on the fly. He's only gotten better the more he's pitched. Just STOP with IP arguements. He's a rookie, still learning, and having his IP monitored not only to protect him, but because the Twins are looking to toss some IP to others. This kid looks like a keeper. And if you don't think so, you aren't paying attention. 2] I was WTH, when Thielbar was brought back. Despite what he did in the Detroit system, I couldn't believe the Tigers wouldn't have brought him back. But he shined pretty well in 2020. His early 2021 numbers with the Twins don't indicate how bad he, and everyone else, were with runners in scoring position. (Inherited runners). But a switch was flipped a couple months ago. And while I still struggle as to how good be can be, and for how long, he has looked really good yet again. (Same as Duffey). 1] My single, biggest arguement with Rocco is in regard to Arraez. The , unfortunately deceased Bell, told Rocco to put him at #1 every day. There is a very wrong and disappointing misnomer, that being a "ballplayer" means you have grit but not ability. And that is SO WRONG! Arraez is NOT a superb athlete. He is NOT a power hitter or speed demon. But he is a BALLPLAYER! Has anyone taken time to actually look at his career? Or do they just casually gloss over reality? He's been asked to play LF/3B/SS/2B since he was brought up in 2019. And his attitude has been: "play me and give me a glove". And I've watched him since the day he came up. Do you realize his initial LF instruction was touch the wall and then step back 20-25 feet? He is still only 24yo. The more he plays, the better he is defensively. But 2B/3B/LF/DH he needs to be in the lineup for 500 AB or so! Bell bad it right! And Rocco needs to figure that out! Additional underrated? I didn't expect Jeffers to replicate 2020. Too much too soon. But you can see the ability and the potential. Garver showed yet again what he can do when healthy. Let him split time and DH and MAYBE play some 1B. If you actually look at the numbers, Donaldson has actually produced. He needs to continue to play 3B as well as DH. In fact, one of the biggest "problems" the Twins may face is finding enough playing time with a healthy and young talent group of Kirilloff, Lanrach and Miranda. Have to give a shout out to Farrell and and Minya and Coulombe. Their future is a mystery. But did anyone see them actually producing for 2021, much less be an option for 2022? Oh, sorry, almost left Alcala off the list, we've seen good and bad. But we've seen mkre good than bad recently.

Only got to watch a couple of the middle innings, which was great as we had the lead and the pen was performing. I can't and won't comment on the umpiring as I didn't see enough. What disappoints the hell out of me as I had this wonderful post half composed in my head about the way the Twins can beat the Yankees is jump on a red-eye to N.Y. for a single game, arrive with little to no sleep, then throw a bullpen game to win. But, alas, it was not to be. The strange perception I take out of this game is Colome. He BLEW IT. No question. And it sucks and hurts, and not just because I had a fun post planned. If Colome had pitched the whole season like he has since June 1st, would we have such vitriol? We might still have a blown season because ONE GUY isn't to blame for 2021. IF Colome had been what was expected, he'd still have a few bad games here and there, including today. But fan/public opinion might be very different. Look, I wouldn't be surprised if Colome was brought back on a smaller contract based on his career, and what he's done since June. (Should be a smaller contract IF it happens). There is potential for him to be an experienced middle guy. And I wouldn't be surprised if both parties just walked away because it just didn't work out. But what I find humerous/interesting is if both sides walk, there will be someone who looks at Colome's career, and his much better 2/3 of a season and think they got a smart signing. If he has a great 2022, do we, as fans, then gripe we didn't keep him? Understand, I'm at BEST keeping Colome at 50/50. I just think perspective in a horrible, disappointing season is difficult to quantify. Fans deal with emotion. A FO and coaching staff see things differently. Just tossing this out for conversation sake and interest. This game still stunk!

I was impressed with how Jax responded. He could have allowed himself to be rattled but he didn't. He went out and threw 5 more really good innings. Does make me wonder why he didn't get another one though, considering the pit h count.

I wish I could have watched the game instead of just checking the box score and the listening to the break up of the perfect game while in my car. Even though Cleveland has a less than stellar lineup, how can you not be impressed for what Ryan did tonight? He was amazing! This kid is riding lightening right now and the Twins need to give him all the chances they can to get him ready for 2022. He has the stuff and the attitude to be a stalwart. Just how good he can be is yet to be determined, obviously. I am super amped up as to his potential as a potential ML SP piece for the Twins. But I'm also a realist. I am NOT being a downer, but I still want to see Johnson work with him the rest of the year and going in to next season on some sort of reliable 3rd pitch. He finds any sort of 3rd pitch with his FB, slider, and control and moxy, he just might be special. At WORST, we might be looking at a really good #2 or excellent #3 SP. And let us pause for a moment to remember how good Ober has looked and developed while even making some adjustments on the fly. I want to be guarded knowing growing pains will happen at some point, but, how can you not be excited this first wave of young rotation pieces, one developed and one brought in? Really excited as to how each finishes the season. Also really excited to see what Dobber does to finish the year, healthy again. Despite some bad pitches and some poor defense there was a lot to like from his last start. IF he can finish 2021 looking like the initial 2020 version of himself, the Twins could be looking at a 2022 pipeline of young SP talent for the future. There's still a lot to play for this season, even in a lost year, to get ready for 2022.

Totally agree. Sometimes there just isn't a fit and both parties need to move on. And I'm not so sure that isn't the case here as well. But you can also easily imagine Colome going somewhere else for a fresh start and simply performing to his career standards and voices clamoring as to why he didn't do that for a full season for the Twins and why didn't they keep him, etc. I am NOT saying the Twins SHOULD keep him. I'm just saying, keeping him as a proven 7th/8th IP option shouldn't be discounted because of 2 terrible months.

The FO or Rocco has apparently decided he can't play a decent SS at the ML level. FINE. They are far smarter and more plugged in than I am. But then why in hell have I watched him playing SS the past two ST? I'm NOT saying Polanco shouldn't be the #1 backup SS at the ML level, but why doesn't Gordon at least get a shot to see what he can do there? I have ZERO illusions the kid is going to go somewhere and become a high quality ML player...other than maybe at 2B for a losing team just looking for potential. But if you liked him enough to protect him, stick by him, and believe enough in his athleticism to learn CF/OF on the fly, and drop him back down to AAA with the purpose of getting AB and playing EVERYWHERE, then for goodness sake let him play at the ML level EVERYWHERE. And that includes SS. I expect no greatness but you might actually end up with an inexpensive, speedy, utility player. Far short of his original draft status and initial hope, but what's wrong with gaining some real value for him?

Love and enjoy every game the Twins win. But a few comments to toss out there: 1] I've been pleasantly surprised by Gant. I saw him as a toss-in when the trade was made. But not only have I been pleasantly surprised thus far, but I've looked at his career numbers a couple of times. They are nothing special, but they aren't bad either. His career K/9 is nothing great, but career ERA, AVG, and WHiP are solid. I get the Twins are looking at him as a POSSIBLE SP, and they kind of have to right now out of necessity. But everything about him just screams to me as him being a quality, dependable middle man. And there's real value in that. I hope that's where he ends up. 2] Good for Rooker. Just wish he could do that more often, as well as just make better contact. There's still something there to like and work with. It's all up to him at this point. 3] Anyone else paying attention to Alcala? Despite some good highs and really bad lows, he had a couple pretty good games before his IL stint. Since his return, he's had a few really good performances. I'm taking 2021 as a good building block for his future. 4] Please don't make me duck and cover for this, but I'm starting to think the Twins would be smart to pick up Colome's 2nd year. (Initial and obligatory duck). Despite a few bad performances...which happen...the numbers for his last 30 games are pretty stellar: 2-0/ 2.73 ERA/ 11SV/ 1.21 WHiP. I believe his 30G dates back to around June 1st. Since then, he's pretty much been what he was supposed to be despite a few hiccups. I absolutely want the Twins to bring in a quality RH arm for $5-7M to work with Rogers, and another $2-3M version of Robles that can, hopefully, be more consistent. Can't believe im saying this after April and May, but maybe keeping Colome as a veteran performer in a set-up role isn't so crazy if you look at his career and the past 3 months.

In regard to Jax, all I can think is, what might have been if the Twins had guessed right and they would have changed the obligation rules earlier as they had expected/hoped. At this point, despite pitching at the ML level and showing SOME promise, sure seems like he's looking like a quality middle RP. Tòo bad. Shoulda/coulda/woulda. I keep wondering about Simmons. Is he playing to help the staff at this point defensively? Are the Twins thinking about re-signing him for 2022 on a smaller deal as a fill-in and just wanting to see how he finishes/responds? Otherwise, I'd just say STOP. Let him go and do something crazy and let SS be played by almost anyone. Use his roster spot for Miranda. Maybe go completely nuts and bring up someone like Palacious for 3 weeks. Just saying, if you don't expect/want him back, just use the roster spot for SOMEONE. Still fine auditioning various arms to see who you want to keep or invite back. That's what you do at the end of a disappointing season.

To echo Topgun#22 and others, a well thought out and written arguement, but I am also going to disagree. Maybe not entirely, but I will nonetheless. First of all, signing someone like Stroman would be a quality veteran who is relatively young to help front the staff and have value for 3-5yrs. SOMEONE besides just a bunch of rookies are going to be needed to start 162G. There are a number of "decent" options such as Pineda, for example, on 1yr deal for $6-8M as a stopgap. The question, in my mind, is do you stop there and use the final 3 spots for the young arms, OR, can the FO pull off another solid trade as they did for Odorizzi and Maeda? If the FO can make such a trade, you still have the remaining 2 spots to be Ober, Ryan, Dobnak, and others. And we all know you are going to need more than 5 or 6 SP for a full season. And if your 1yr signing doesn't turn out and the young arms are looking good, you can release said veteran. Further, if said signed actually pitches well and you aren't in position to contend, or again someone young is ready, you have a mid-year trade option. There is sufficient $ to spend without breaking the bank to make these kind of moves. A 1yr SP does nothing to block young talent. And maybe some will disagree with me, but other than a decent, solid temp SS and a solid, quality RH 4th OF, I think this team is good position player wise. Now, the pen needs addressing, no doubt. But a single, long term contract, a hopeful trade acquisition and an inexpensive 1yr starter does NOT blow up the payroll or handcuff you. And you will have more than enough opportunity to throw the young arms throughout 162G schedule. Why wouldn't you try to compete in 2022?

My eye test tells me Polanco is definitely improved. Might be just settling in to 2B more, or his ankle being a little stiff early in the season or both. My eye also tells me Arraez has looked better. I think that's as simple as playing 3B more often and just getting comfortable. Sano frustrates me. He seems to field 1B cleanly and does a great job on scoops. He chases foul balls generally well. I've even seen him make some really good throws from 1B. He looks fine to even good at 1B and then just muffs a play or makes a ridiculous throw/play and I roll my eyes. Total Jekyl and Hyde. I think we're fine at catcher with some obvious growing pains from a couple young rookies that have played a lot. I don't know what to think about Simmons. He's still solid, but it does look like he's slipped. Is he disinterested? Is he taking his offensive struggles to the field? With average offense I'd take him back for a smaller deal. But it might just not be a good fit and time to find a different short term option.

Watched and listened to most all the game. Dobnak wasn't exactly perfect, far from it. But I was impressed. While he was high with his pitches in the 2nd and 3rd and was knocked around, he was also let down by his defense. But he also had a great 1st inning. He also had a fine 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th inning. His first game back. Call me encouraged!

Thank you. I thought he had to be protected and actually forgot he was ,left unprotected last year. All the more reason I'm confused why he isn't getting a shot now. I know the FO is sifting through "do we keep them or invite them back on milb deals" options, but time seems to be running out to get his feet wet. Unless they already know they are going to protect him and just let the other arms continue to audition. Hamilton is another arm I just don't get. We all know his tragic history. But he's been claimed, waived, claimed, waived, etc, over and again because everyone also knows his story. And yet, he also has yet to receive any sort of audition. Again, I can see a method taking place here. I'm just worried we might be missing a couple opportunities.

I'm tossing this out here as a discussion idea that I briefly touched on in my previous post. I think it's an interesting idea. Verlander is a future HOF SP. He's also coming off injury and a lost season. He will also be 39yo when the 2022 season begins. My hope and expectation is Stroman or Gausman on a multi-year deal to help anchor the staff. I can easily see Pineda, or similar, signed on something as short as a 1yr deal. And the various options have already been named. But instead of trading for a solid #2 option type....which I am not opposed to....what if the Twins did something a little crazy and took a shot for Verlander on 1yr deal? MAYBE a 1+1 deal. Despite an amazing career, age and injury are real factors. There is an obvious risk factor to signing him. But he and the Twins know one another quite well. Could he be looking for a short term deal to re-establish himself? Is he feeling the end is near and maybe agree to a 1+1? Either way, is he worth a serious shot? How much would it take? Would you sign him at 1yr at $15-18M with incentives up to $20M+? Or does Houston or someone else just take a huge plunge and just offer a guaranteed number that we don't want to touch on a 2 or 3yr deal? Thoughts?

I also have to confess that a lost 2020 milb season has me scratching my head once in a while when I read reports and look at box scores. And Shreve is one of those guys I "just don't anything about", unfortunately. Seems most of the entire 2019 draft class is sort of "lost" to many of us and we need to catch up. Thank you all for continuing reports and honors to get us caught up! Loved and laughed at "sure-fire future big leaguer Jovani Moran". When does he get his chance? I'm not sure if he has to be protected this offseason or not. Right now, I keep thinking either he doesn't have to be protected so they are playing that game, or, they don't want to "audition" him to the world and hoping to "stash" him away and keep fewer eyes on him. Either way, even with the pen doing so much better these days, I'm still confused he hasn't gotten a shot yet. What is up with Gore? He doesn't have a big, long frame, but be brings velocity and just keeps cranking out great performances after transitioning to the mound. IIRC he's yet to win a RP of the month award, but could end up winning the RP of the year award. I'm keeping my eye on him.

Two quick comments that I think are important before addressing the OP. 1] The Maeda injury/surgery could very easily change the 2022 outlook/plan for the FO and ownership. And nobody should be shocked by that or "down" on the Twins if that is the case. It's one thing to believe you have a team that can contend with a couple pitching additions, re-work and add to the pen, maybe add one good bench piece, and keep developing your system, particularly the young pitchers...VERSUS....now you lost a quality front end SP when you already had various additional moves to make. Any additions for competing in 2022 just became magnified and doubled in importance as well as difficulty with the loss of Maeda. 2] Dismissing the Buxton factor for a moment as there are too many moving parts right now....IF the FO/ownership STILL believes in themselves, their staff their roster, their young talent and prospects, etc, ENOUGH to want to contend in 2022...they could target their 2019 and "projected" 2020 payroll and shoot for a $150M-ish 2022 payroll. While there would be various raises here and there, with no Berrios and Maeda only making his minimum, the Twins could actually have somewhere between $50-60M to spend to reach that $150M-ish number, IF they want to and believe enough. Done with that. Let's address a couple key parts of the OP and "what could be". 1] I wouldn't dismiss Verlander or Thor out of the blue. Each coming off injury is a bit of a re-hab risk financially, Verlander more so due to age. Speculation has Thor getting a QO from the Mets which would eliminate him from virtually anyone. Verlander would be a gamble for sure, but could be a surprise 1yr or 1+1 for something fair. And he and the Twins are very familiar with one another. 2] Gausman, assuming reports that he wants to stay on the west aren't 100%, and Stroman make perfect sense. Stroman and the Twins have been tied together for a few years now. And each is young enough to warrant a longer term deal without messing with future payroll. It just feels Stroman is an ideal choice and probably my #1 target. 2] The FO pulled off a pair of amazing trades for Odorizzi and Maeda and gave up very little to do so. Can they do it again?? I don't see them wanting to dent the ML roster but the system is deep enough to HOPEFULLY pull off a similar type of move. It could be easier and smarter than just spending more $ for a 2nd FA. I agree with that thought. I'm just spitballing, but something like Rooker/Wallner and Sands/Vallimont/Gross/Varland/Gipson-Long to a rebuilding tezm for a controllable arm similar to Odorizzi with potential and control? Doesn't destroy the system but seems fair. Almost assuredly gave up less to get Oddo and Maeda. Two guys under control to front the rotation. [Still wouldn't be shocked for something crazy like a Verlander on a 1 or 1+1 deal) Can they pull a rabbit out of the hat again? 3] Pineda is, IMO, already part of 2022. And I'm OK with that. I wouldn't be surprised if there hasn't already been conversations and maybe gentleman agreement. The #3 spot SHOULD BE something short term for $ reasons and prospect reasons, I guess where we MIGHT differ is, where and how do we factor the TRADE arm vs the 2nd FA arm? I'm not so sure, Nick, that your list of Kluber, Cobb, etc, might not be the 1yr option vs the trade idea. But I don't think we differ very far here. 4 & 5] These go together as they should. Without breaking the bank or doing anything to remotely destroy the system, we've added at the very least 3 quality arms via trade and FA. Barring a HUGE surprise, we've added a quality veteran arm to lead the way, a solid and hopeful arm with a couple years of control, and a 1yr flier that could be anywhere from solid to great. And while there will be some $ spent, we don't break the bank and we don't do anything to hurt the "system". Ober is pretty much written in ink. Ted commented in his recent post that Ober may have top 3 potential. I don't doubt that. But in this scenario, we are talking 2022 and not potential. A fully healthy Dobnak is the probable #5 at this time. If you don't like that, or believe that, then go back and re-read what he did in 2020 before a hiccup, which most young starters go through. THEN we can continue the conversation about changes he made and how good he looked in ST before the FO/staff deferred to Happ and Shoemaker over him. And we could argue over and over again if the FO and staff made a mistake. Right or wrong, they had a pair of veteran starters who they believed could successfully fill the back end of the rotation. Dobnak was tossed in to a difficult situation of long man vs starter and had a hand injury that curtailed anything he could do. Amazing how injury and a tough road suddenly glosses over the potential someone has shown. Dobnak is going to have to be healthy and re-establish what he has shown in the past. No doubt! Because Ryan and others are chomping at his heels. And we have September for Dobber to "get right" and Ryan to show what he can be. And ST will allow everyone to show what they can do. But I'm guessing Dobber WILL show what he can do/be. And A RIGHT NOW, TODAY, I'd expect a healthy Dobnak to be the 5th SP. But Ryan has a real chance to change all of that. And the 4th and 5th spots should be open to this kind of competition. There is so much talent coming forward that you don't want to block anyone or blow up your payroll. But the Twins CAN easily afford one long term deal and a short term option. The question is the middle. Trade or FA, where is the middle ground to bring in a 3rd SP to make this team competitive for 2022?

I confess Woods Richardson slipped my mind. I stand by my initial thoughts above, but I have to change my vote for SWR as #1.