LA Vikes Fan

I like this idea. A lot. I like it because it increases the opportunities for the Twins to get the two things they need the most - information and development. I think we need to take these last 50 or so games and see how guys look going into next season> That's primary; wining and losing is secondary. This approach gives us a chance to see if Abel, Bradley, Adams, Ohl, and maybe Rojas and Raya, can cut it on the MLB level. And there's no prohibition against the first guy going more than 4 innings; if he's pitching well he can go 5 or 6 innings and the second guy goes 3 or 4. It also may just change the order of pitchers. The first goy goes 5.1 or 5.2, the short man/closer finishes that inning, then the "second starter" finishes the game. This would require some flexible thinking by management and the players but I think you can get guys to buy in if the concept is explained.

I agree with the OP with the exception of his grades on the Jax and Varland deals. I think this whole Board way overrates Jax. He's a 30 year-old failed starter having a pretty mediocre year who is a good late inning reliver but whose history has shown us he cannot close games. Taj Bradley much younger, has a chance to be a solid mid rotation starter, and has an even higher chance of being a solid reliever. I think you make that deal any time. The Varland trade hurts emotionally but I think on the baseball merits is much closer to a B or a B-. By the way, I think the Duran trade is an A or A-. Stop with the whining, it's a better deal than what the As got for Mason Miller, particularly when the A's threw in a starting pitcher. One that makes no sense of course is trading Stewart for Outman. The funny thing is, the blogs here in LA question why we would trade a young guy who was third in the ROY voting two years ago for a guy whose arm falls off after 35 innings every season. Just a head scratcher in both directions frankly. I think both fan bases overvalue what they traded and undervalue what they got.

There are MLB rules requiring teams to escrow money to satisfy long-term contracts, particularly those with deferred compensation. I don't know the ins and outs of the rules and know the escrow does not have to be 100% of that deferred compensation Still, it's my understanding that the Twins probably had to place some money into an escrow account as security for the long term guaranteed money in the contract. Technically, that shouldn't be considered debt. Having said that, if you have to devote a portion of cash into escrows to secure longer-term contracts, that cash is then not available to pay operating expenses and could result in increased debt from having to finance operations. Frankly, I would be surprised if the Twins are making any profit given their TV situation and relatively speaking low attendance. I think the loss of the Diamond Sports contract was a killer; there is $55 million in guaranteed revenue that went away and was replaced by something that has to be less than $15 million. The franchise is probably taking on more debt from operations this year, although the sell off has to help in that regard along with freeing up at least a portion of the escrowed funds to secure the Correa contract.

I really think that they should spend time this off-season teaching either Wallner or Larnach to play 1B. Clemens is been a nice surprise, but he shouldn't be your only option next year for a full-time 1B. We are starting to get some more OF options so let's make one of them a potential 1B option.

Looks like Gaspar will hit since Detroit brought in a LH pitcher and our entire bench is now LH hitters.

Hey, just tuning in. Who came down from outer space and replaced our regular guys with aliens? Roden has 2 hits? Martin has a HR? What form of witchcraft is this? BTW, how did Hatch look? Stats are great.

Thanks for this on Outman. Also, given his very limited time in the majors the last 2 years, could he be granted a 4th option year the way Larnach was? The closest thing I could find on an answer was that "a player can be granted a fourth option year if they have exhausted their three regular options and have less than five full seasons of professional experience. This often occurs when a player misses significant time due to injuries or spends full seasons in lower-level Minor Leagues with shorter schedules." I don't think he qualifies for that, but it may explain why he is in AAA now so that the Twins can try to get a 4th option year for him in the off season. Well, that and he can't hit in AAA are why he's still there I guess. By the way, I don't think the Twins see options as the issue. They intend for Outman to the 5th OF/backup CF for next year, especially after watching Martin not be able to handle the job this year.

By the way, everyone realizes that Andrew Painter had TJ surgery in 2023, missed the 2023 and 2024 seasons, and is 3-6 with a 4.75 ERA in 19 starts in AAA this year, right? Instead we got Mick Abel, who is 7-2 with a 2.13 ERA in AAA this year in 14 starts. Who will be better going forward? Who the hell knows long term, but we do know Abel is better in the short term. Can we get of the "we should have gotten Painter for Duran" kick?

Keaschall up, Keirsey down. Hard to be unhappy about that one. Outman up next week once we finish manipulating service time.

Not a huge surprise. They've discovered what we discovered. Some days Alcala is great, some days he is the opposite of great and you never know what you're going to get. Having said that, I say we make the waiver claim and get him back. Let's put them in the back end of the bullpen for the rest of this year. He's certainly better than some of the guys we have.

I think this accurately assess the baseball merit of the trade. You have to add in the loss of the back end of the bullpen to the mix. It doesn't really matter for 2025 since this season is blown any way, but not having Varland as the potential closer for next year is a real loss. I still think the trade makes sense on the baseball merits, but it's a realtively close call. It's probably a risk worth taking if you assume as I do, that the current core was simply incapable of being competitive in the short term. Having said that, there is more at stake. I'm seeing a lot of comments that are more emotional than baseball related, bemoaning the loss of the local kid who made good and whose family was coming to the games. I think that's a fair issue; Twins are a consumer facing entertainment business and they need to generate emotional attachment. It looks like Varland did that for a lot of people. That's a real asset and I don't understand why the Twins either didn't recognize that asset or decided it didn't have sufficient value to stop the trade. I don't think the trade is so one-sided in the Twins' direction that it's a "must do" regardless of loss of the local favorite. In sum, I didn't understand the trade when it was made. I much better understand the trade now from a baseball perspective but still don't understand it from a fan engagement perspective. This is simply a trade I would not have made.

This. I think the Twins moves at the deadline, while extreme, were generally speaking necessary (I still don't get the Varland trade unless Rojas really is going to be a top-end starter). The core group they put together simply wasn't good enough to be competitive and that wasn't likely to change anytime soon. The 5 FAs were gone and were not going to help us win anything this year. It would have been borderline malpractice not to trade them. On the reliever side, we got real value. The idea that the A's did better Mason Miller trade is just not correct - we got as good of or a better haul for Duran and the A's included an established mid-rotation to backend starter in the package to the Padres. As for the rest, running basically that same group back made no sense. Correa is simply no longer a star player you can build a team around; he is a complementary player that can make a contribution to a team with an existing star core while not being part of that core. While it's wrong to focus on just one game, you could see in that 13 – 1 loss that this team just didn't have it and was coming apart at the seams. I just think a lot of the comments here are a little overboard. That may be because with the current ownership group, it's very hard to see how these changes are somehow molded into a more competitive team in the next 2 or 3 years. I'm hoping that a new ownership group will do things differently. There needs to be some wholesale changes in the player development group outside of the pitchers, and the team needs to embrace a more athletic, faster type of player at its core. That may mean a change in the Front Office and/or a change in manager as well. None of that was going to happen if this group was held together. Trading relief pitching for value was the right move given where this team was at. I think if the team is sold this first off-season is going to be fascinating. We will learn quickly whether the new owner is looking to be competitive in the short term, medium term, or ever. If the team is not sold, that I take back everything I just said because we are screwed and looking at a prolonged period of futility under the current hapless ownership regime.

I agree although I think Roden stays until Buxton is activated on Wednessday (?) and then goes down.

Just tuned in and saw a shot of Keaschall in the dugout. Has he been added yet? Who is going away? My money is on Fitzgerald although it should be Gaspar. Man looks like Mario.

While I agree with a lot of the comments and the sentiments, I guess I start from a different place. This core simply wasn't a group of players in whom to invest or frankly, even keep around. They showed us that last year when going 23-32 in August and September while chasing a playoff berth, losing 25 of their last 37, and they showed us in again in June (9-18) and July (11-13) this year. Minor changes weren't going to be enough. Starting there, the only trade that I see as problematic was trading Varland. The rest all made sense - expiring contracts flipped for at least some value for the most part, really good returns on the Duran trade, a good return on Jax who wanted out and is starting to decline at age 30, and losing Correa who clearly wanted out and wasn't the answer. Trading Varland only makes sense in the context of starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching and Rojas, the 21 year old leftie starter who just got to AAA (at age 21!), could be more valuable in time but it's a real crapshoot. Varland could have been the replacement closer and been around for another 4 years. Also, the Stewart trade was a little weird although its being painted here in LA as getting an older, injury prone guy for a former top 3 ROY finisher. I guess we all have are own myopic perspective. We needed to clean house and reset the roster. The lousy message doesn't change what I see as the true fact: the Twins as previously constituted were a mediocre team going nowhere and frankly getting pretty old to boot. Now we're a youngish team with younger players getting a shot so at least there's some upside. I guess that's better? Just wish there was a column C we are a good contending team.

While I agree with a lot of the comments and the sentiments, I guess I start from a different place. This core simply wasn't a group of players in whom to invest or frankly, even keep around. They showed us that last year when going 23-32 in August and September while chasing a playoff berth, losing 25 of their last 37, and they showed us in again in June (9-18) and July (11-13) this year. Minor changes weren't going to be enough. Starting there, the only trade that I see as problematic was trading Varland. The rest all made sense - expiring contracts flipped for at least some value for the most part, really good returns on the Duran trade, a good return on Jax who wanted out and is starting to decline at age 30, and losing Correa who clearly wanted out and wasn't the answer. Varland only makes sense in the context of starting pitching is more valuable than relief pitching and Rojas, the 21 year old leftie starter who just got to AAA (at age 21!), could be more valuable in time but it's a real crapshoot. Varland could have been the replacement closer and been around for another 4 years. Also, the Stewart trade was a little weird although its being painted here in LA as getting an older, injury prone guy for a former top 3 ROY finisher. I guess we all have are own myopic perspective. We needed to clean house and reset the roster. The letter is tone deaf at best and frankly pretty stupid, but that doesn't change what I see as the true fact: the Twins as previously constituted were a mediocre team going nowhere and frankly getting pretty old to boot. Now we're a youngish team with younger players getting a shot so at least there's some upside. I guess that's better? Just wish there was a column C we are a good contending team.

Speaking of which, does it cost a year of service time for Prielipp to get a start or 3 in Minnesota this year? It would be nice to gauge where he is.

Maybe I'm too impatient but I would like to see Culpepper and Jenkins get a shot this year. I don't think Lee is a long term MLB SS - too slow, not enough range, doesn't hit well enough for 3B. Right now, Lee looks like a long term UTL. I have more hope for Martin but I think he's realistically a 4th OF because of the lack of power and the strangely mediocre defense (how can such a great athlete not be good at defense in baseball?). Here's what I would like to see by 8/15: 1B - Clemens/Lee 2B - Keaschall SS - Culpepper 3B - Lewis UTL - Lee UTL (1B/2B) - Julien LF - Jenkins CF - Buxton RF - Wallner/Larnach 4th OF - Martin C - Jeffers, Vasquez DH - Larnach/Wallner/Martin/Jeffers Play these guys almost every day. Send Roden back to AAA, he's a 2026 ST project. Fitzgerald and Keirsey are AAAA guys, send them to AAA (or DFA land). Yes, be prepared for a lot of SOs and offensive futility, and yes Martin may be a bust as the backup CF (but we need to know since he can hit and Keirsey/Outman cannot). Alternatively, make Martin the 2B and move Keaschall to LF with Jenkins as the backup CF, but then it's hard to get all 3 plus Buxton in the lineup every day unless Wallner or Larnach sit. Yes, this might be painful at times but this way we have a much better handle on 2026 and 2027.

Amen, brother. Still don't understand the Varland trade though, unless the 21 year-old LH starter they got is the real deal.

Wow, that was an exciting top of the first. This game is a scalper's dream.

I don't get that at all. Outman has actually had success against MLB pitching, albeit in 550 PAs in 2023. Keirsey, not so much . . .

C'mon now. Outman is no prize but he's a lot better than DeShawn Keirsey. No reason to insult the guy.

Well, the moves were made and its a mixed bag. Some of promoting the youngish (Martin, Julien, Adams, Ohl), some of playing guys not in the long term plan (Erasmo Ramirez, Fitzgerald, Urena). Also tells us who among those recently arriving the team thinks are ready now (Alan Roden). OF - Martin, Roden, Wallner, Larnach, Keirsey (Buxton on IL) IF - Lewis, Lee, Julien, Clemens, Fitzgerald. Gaspar C- Jeffers, Vasquez SP - Ryan, SWR, Matthews, ?? BP - Sands, Topa, Tonkin, Ohl, Adams, Davis, Ramirez, Funderburk, Urena. Still one short. Have to figure Ober is activated to pitch tomorrow or early next week for one of the TBA games. Hopefully Urena and Ramirez are BP candidates only and won't get a start. I would love to see Abel in the rotation or at least Taj Bradley starting next week. BTW, where is Keaschall? I did look and it looks like he's 6-32 in this 10 games or so, maybe needs time to get back into a rhythm.

Interesting. He’s been playing some OF. Any word yet on who’s coming up. I think we are at 7 open roster spots.

I'm a little surprised that Larnach didn't get traded. We also have to add Roden into the OF mix. He hasn't hit much in 100 MLB ABs, but with a wRC+ is 150 in AAA, there's no reason to leave him there. Maybe Buxton in CF, Outman/Martin in LF, Wallner in RF, Roden as a 5th OF, and Larnach at 1B? I'm legitimately clueless on how you put this together to field a team.