How Twins, Mets Could Swing Joe Ryan Blockbuster Trade

8 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

I would take McLean straight up. You know the Mets aren't going to include him with other prospects. 

McLean's 95th percentile outcome is a playoff caliber one or two in a big league rotation. You already have that in Joe Ryan, so why would you trade him away for a prospect who might turn into Joe Ryan. You might be right in that the Mets won't be willing to give up much more for Ryan, but if that is the best we can do, I see no reason in trading him.

Just my opinion. But McLean is likely not available after what he did. So, if you are seriously looking to trade Ryan to the Mets. What's left? Likely Tong and maybe Sproat for pitchers. 

The Twins and Mets do match up well for this trade.

I did post a trade on BTV but I doubt the Mets would trade Alveraz. 

2 hours ago, Permanent Twins Fan said:

McLean's 95th percentile outcome is a playoff caliber one or two in a big league rotation. You already have that in Joe Ryan, so why would you trade him away for a prospect who might turn into Joe Ryan. You might be right in that the Mets won't be willing to give up much more for Ryan, but if that is the best we can do, I see no reason in trading him.

Disagree. In fact, the Twins would have to add someone with Ryan to pry away Mc Lean. I agree with an earlier poster, the Mets would never trade Mc Lean for Ryan.

Irrelevant on any Minnesota Twins "rebuild". Never will win a WS until Ohtani retires?

Dream on.....

A lot of the moves could have waited till this off-season. Because there's more time to negotiate the returns are better. If we trade Joe it better be for multiple top 100 players or 2 top 100 and one or two depth pieces that can be used right away. Just not another roden or outman. 

21 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

Because they want to win. Their owner wants to win. They were woefully short on run prevention last season and it was an embarrassing collapse.

Twins don't have to trade Ryan, and there will be multiple bidders if they make him available. They shouldn't be able to pry him loose without offering great prospects. Of course, if you're of the opinion that Falvey is a moronic incompetent who is responsible for every failure of the organization in the last decade and someone else was actually responsible for any successes...then yeah, we'll only get a bag of magic beans.

I'll admit, the idea of trading a star pitcher to the Mets brings up unpleasant memories of what the potential return could be. 

Mets do have the prospect capital to make a deal that works for both teams. But I suspect McLean is off the table for them? The late season, successful debut in MLB makes him a guy they're counting on for 2026 in the rotation and swapping him for Ryan doesn't necessarily move the needle for them. They want a rotation that has Ryan and McLean leading the way, with guys like Manea & Montas moved off the roster, and guys like Peterson, Holmes, or Senga moved down to the back end.

You just laid out why I was correct in my statement with your comment on their needs for pitching now and in the future.  The same scenario holds true for their position players.  

The Mets have been trying to win for a few years. They have not traded a prospect that wasn’t a suspect. They haven’t made a trade for a big time player since Lindor. 5 years ago. 

23 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Strong disagree. Why would you trade him for a veteran? 

As I said, I would not trade him at all.

The Twins are just as liable to get as good a pitching prospect if they wait two years for an extra draft choice for losing Ryan based on the comments that the very top guys such as Painter (PHILLY) or McLean (Mets) are not available. Why do people propose adding pitching prospects that slot in below the Twins guys already in house? 

The return for trading Joe Ryan, if dealt at all, must focus on position players. Get those back end rotation prospects out of your mind and begin to guess at position players, preferably not guys similar to Julien, Clemens, etc.

On 10/17/2025 at 9:00 AM, NYCTK said:

Well then there will be no discussion. There is absolutely no way McLean is traded for Ryan. 

 

 

I agree. Then they must hang up the phone and keep Ryan. There isn’t anyone else that can headline this deal. The Twins would be fools to take a guy hoping he can develop a third pitch. That guy is destined to be a reliever. 

15 hours ago, AKTwinsFan said:

A lot of the moves could have waited till this off-season. Because there's more time to negotiate the returns are better. If we trade Joe it better be for multiple top 100 players or 2 top 100 and one or two depth pieces that can be used right away. Just not another roden or outman. 

Not enough. Let’s stop with this top 100 stuff as if they are all equal. There are maybe 20 FV 55 and above. After that there are a bunch of FV50, FV45+ and FV45. That gets you to nearly 300 players. The middle of the top 100 is closer to number 250 in future value than number 10. The majority of those players do not make an impact in the majors. Roden was a top 100 going into this season.

The Mets have one player that is above FV50 according to Fangraphs. That is the player they need to get and if the Mets aren’t dealing they aren’t a match.

4 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Why do people propose adding pitching prospects that slot in below the Twins guys already in house? 

I think you're overeating the internal. Tong, for example, would slot in ahead of everyone everyone except Bradley maybe? He's higher than Abel, Rojas, or even Festa or Matthews, in terms of upside potential. 

21 year old minor league pitcher of the year. This is still a project, but far enough along the Mets debuted him, albeit reluctantly, in the middle of a playoff race. 

9 hours ago, NYCTK said:

I think you're overeating the internal. Tong, for example, would slot in ahead of everyone everyone except Bradley maybe? He's higher than Abel, Rojas, or even Festa or Matthews, in terms of upside potential. 

21 year old minor league pitcher of the year. This is still a project, but far enough along the Mets debuted him, albeit reluctantly, in the middle of a playoff race. 

One of the most interesting parts about prospects is guessing who has what talent or can develop what skill. The guys on BA, Fangraphs, other sites, and even us are often at odds with each other and the guys who make money on their guesses change their thoughts from year to year. It is why the lists never agree and why we will have different thoughts on guys.

McLean, Tong, and Sproat have all appeared in different orders among Mets prospect lists with widely varying numbers attached to their potential pitches and command for both 2024 and 2025. McLean took a step ahead of the other two via his eight game showing at the major league level. I would say all three are good prospects. Tong had a very strong minor league season. I liked what I saw in the few times I watched these guys pitch. In five years time Sproat might even be the best of the trio.

There are so many good pitching prospects though and a pile of reasons some look better than others. One of the biggest obstacles for Twins prospects has been their working in front of poor defenders and with sub-par catchers. I see much more of Twins prospects, via milb.com than I do of other teams but I check out names that get highlighted across the minors. The Twins have a pile of good pitching prospects. I'm watching guys pitch and placing little value on statistics for those I see pitch frequently. In one game last summer I watched while four very routine outs (at any level) were turned into baserunners called base hits. That rarely happens in high school and yet the pitcher pays on his score sheet. In any event we wouldn't agree if we made a list. Enjoy your guys. BTW, did you watch many of those three Mets pitchers minor league games last summer?

3 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

BTW, did you watch many of those three Mets pitchers minor league games last summer?

I'm not retired, so no. 

As for pitching in front of bad defenses, that's why people look to FIP stats. Jonah Tongs results are otherworldly. Jonah Tong is better than any Twins pitching prospect, and IMO would instantly be the Twins #2 prospect. His trade value eclipses any Twins pitcher except for Ryan or Lopez. 

He'd be a good top of the package return for Joe Ryan. He may not be the best prospect the Twins could hope to return in such a trade, but he'd be pretty close. 

Jon Heyman reported the Twins were specifically interested in Tong this summer in a trade for Duran. The Mets were unwilling to deal two top prospects.

17 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

I'm not retired, so no. 

As for pitching in front of bad defenses, that's why people look to FIP stats. Jonah Tongs results are otherworldly. Jonah Tong is better than any Twins pitching prospect, and IMO would instantly be the Twins #2 prospect. His trade value eclipses any Twins pitcher except for Ryan or Lopez. 

He'd be a good top of the package return for Joe Ryan. He may not be the best prospect the Twins could hope to return in such a trade, but he'd be pretty close. 

 

I'm retired. No way I was commenting much less watching milb baseball when I worked, but I was around baseball in various capacities for many decades. I don't expect (at all) that people can watch the young kids. I can these days, so I do. The statistics are not a reliable replacement for watching, but they serve their purpose.

Like I said earlier, you have your thoughts and I'm glad you are high on the Mets young pitchers. It is what fans should do. We just won't agree on any list. As far as Ryan goes, we have already been over that. Of course we have no idea what will happen but if Ryan (or Lopez ... or Ober) is traded, the Twins must get some good position players back. The Twins need C, 1B, 3B, SS, LF, and RF. We can say 3B = Royce, SS = Brooks, and the corners are filled with some combinations of current players and prospects. However, the general consensus amongst most people who have seen the Twins suggest position player upgrades, even if nominal or MLB ready prospects. It is going to be really interesting to see what happens with the Twins roster this winter. One cannot imagine that the Twins stand pat with their current roster. 

FWIW, if the Twins were to be interested in trading for a pitcher there is talk of Milwaukee floating Peralta. Peralta should be a target (like Ryan or Lopez) for a team trying to win (Mets too) but he would help every team.

One of the realities none of us can ever know is how the 30 MLB front offices see each other and how well they communicate with one another. That definitely makes some difference.

9 minutes ago, jorgenswest said:

Jon Heyman reported the Twins were specifically interested in Tong this summer in a trade for Duran. The Mets were unwilling to deal two top prospects.

Good point. I remember that. Duran, as a setup for Diaz, and the Twins wanted Tong, Benge, and another lower guy I think. Does Ryan have more value than Duran had?

18 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

FWIW, if the Twins were to be interested in trading for a pitcher there is talk of Milwaukee floating Peralta. Peralta should be a target (like Ryan or Lopez) for a team trying to win (Mets too) but he would help every team.

Yeah. There are a lot of vet pitchers available on the trade market this offseason. Which is why Ryan is not brining back anyone anywhere near McLean (or Benge) as a return. 

Maybe it is for the best they hold him and shop him later. 

On 10/17/2025 at 9:47 AM, NYCTK said:

The thing is, so is Nolan McLean at this point. In fact, I can promise you a fair amount of 2026 power rankings and projection systems will have McLean ahead of Ryan. 

We all like Ryan, but the Mets are not trading McLean for Ryan. Anyone still proposing this is just wasting everyone's time. Tong or Sproat are on the table, as are a slew of other pitching prospects in the Mets Pitching Pipeline - Santucci, Wenninger, Watson, Thornton. 

If you see a headline that McLean has been traded, it's bad news because it was for Skubal and the Twins will be facing him for the next 5 seasons. 

 

While I agree the Mets aren't going to trade McLean (therefore the Mets are out IMO). It's a stretch to call McLean a proven MLB pitcher after 48 IP. He certainly looks promising, but 48 IP doesn't scream proven MLB pitcher.

7 minutes ago, MGX said:

While I agree the Mets aren't going to trade McLean (therefore the Mets are out IMO). It's a stretch to call McLean a proven MLB pitcher after 48 IP. He certainly looks promising, but 48 IP doesn't scream proven MLB pitcher.

Sure, but I'll just repeat that there's going to be a fair amount of power rankings and projection systems that put McLean ahead of Joe Ryan.

BTW, over that span where unproven McLean was light's out over his first 48 IP with a 2.97 FIP / 2.06 ERA, the MLB proven Joe Ryan's last 49.2 IP showed him with a 5.01 FIP / 4.89 ERA. 

There isn't a single team in baseball that would trade Nolan McLean for Joe Ryan. And I'm not being even a bit hyperbolic. Anyone insisting on a prospect of McLean's caliber in return for Joe Ryan isn't being even close to realistic.

20 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Which is why Ryan is not brining back anyone anywhere near McLean (or Benge) as a return. 

 

NYCTK, do you think the Twins should trade for pitching? It seems like you are missing my point about the Mets not being a match with the Twins or maybe you disagree. I believe the Twins need to target position players in any deals. I'm not interested in any trades of key personnel for pitching. If the Twins really are desperate for innings they can sign Littell. 

18 hours ago, ashbury said:

What's your interpretation of their trading away essentially all the good bullpen arms under team control through 2027?

As soon as they traded both Duran and Jax, the rebuild was evident.  Trading Varland as well was merely the chef's kiss to the recipe.

Sorry, I think you are totally wrong.

3 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

NYCTK, do you think the Twins should trade for pitching? It seems like you are missing my point about the Mets not being a match with the Twins or maybe you disagree. I believe the Twins need to target position players in any deals. I'm not interested in any trades of key personnel for pitching. If the Twins really are desperate for innings they can sign Littell. 

You're right, I think I did, going back to Tong, but I too think you missed my point with that message. I would agree with you that pitching isn't really the priority in a return. That's why I mentioned Benge as well.

Most of the comments I've been making here are in response about McLean and Tong. As a Mets fan I have a larger knowledge about the Mets Farm System than probably anyone else here, so I'm just sharing that information. 

On 10/17/2025 at 3:23 PM, tony&rodney said:

I don't see a single Met position prospect to put in the lineup with confidence or be really excited about for 2027.

You can say this about literally any prospect outside the top 10, which I will repeat that the Twins are not getting in return for Joe Ryan.

I'm coming at this from a unique angle, since I'm a fan of both the Twins and the Mets, want what's good and fair for both, and have pretty good knowledge about most prospects in both systems. I would disagree with you and suggest the Mets actually do have quite a few players performing well in the high minors that would be MLB contributors with the Twins, given the Twins organizational depth chart and farm system strengths:

Jett Williams - SS/2B/CF - AAA - 50 FV 
- would slot in as the Twins #2 prospect, a fair bit better SS prospect than Culpepper, a year younger, ending the season in AAA but with iffy results there. could likely stick at SS in a system without Lindor, but Houston could also move him to 2B or an OF position, as the team sees a need

Jacob Reimer - 3B/1B - AA - 50 FV 
- would likely slot in as the Twins #5 prospect behind Rodriguez. well rounded hitter but the question is his glove and if it will be competent enough for MLB. if it is, he's a very good prospect, but if it isn't he could be a Ryan Mountcastle type player. would instantly be the best prospect at either 3B or 1B in the Twins system. 

Ryan Clifford - 1B/DH - AAA - 45 FV
- looks like he might be Matt Wallner, for better or worse. I didn't like him much as a prospect but then he significantly cut down his K rate last season which has elevated his stock and might be a good sign. his defense in the OF is probably on par with Wallner, but unlike him seems to be quite a competent 1B. 

Chris Suero - C/DH - AA - 40 FV 
- another fun bat with questionable defense. doubtful he sticks at C longterm and probably doesn't make it to the majors if he doesn't

Not to mention the likes of Mark Vientos, Ronny Mauricio, and Luisangel Acuna. Nor the RP they need to roster on their 40-man that would instantly slot into the Twins bullpen. 

All this to say, I could very easily envision a trade being agreed to between the teams fully ignoring the Mets system strength in their SP and their top 10 OF prospects. And now that I spent so much time thinking about it, I want to actually see it. 

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

You're right, I think I did, going back to Tong, but I too think you missed my point with that message. I would agree with you that pitching isn't really the priority in a return. That's why I mentioned Benge as well.

Most of the comments I've been making here are in response about McLean and Tong. As a Mets fan I have a larger knowledge about the Mets Farm System than probably anyone else here, so I'm just sharing that information. 

You can say this about literally any prospect outside the top 10, which I will repeat that the Twins are not getting in return for Joe Ryan.

I'm coming at this from a unique angle, since I'm a fan of both the Twins and the Mets, want what's good and fair for both, and have pretty good knowledge about most prospects in both systems. I would disagree with you and suggest the Mets actually do have quite a few players performing well in the high minors that would be MLB contributors with the Twins, given the Twins organizational depth chart and farm system strengths:

Jett Williams - SS/2B/CF - AAA - 50 FV 
- would slot in as the Twins #2 prospect, a fair bit better SS prospect than Culpepper, a year younger, ending the season in AAA but with iffy results there. could likely stick at SS in a system without Lindor, but Houston could also move him to 2B or an OF position, as the team sees a need

Jacob Reimer - 3B/1B - AA - 50 FV 
- would likely slot in as the Twins #5 prospect behind Rodriguez. well rounded hitter but the question is his glove and if it will be competent enough for MLB. if it is, he's a very good prospect, but if it isn't he could be a Ryan Mountcastle type player. would instantly be the best prospect at either 3B or 1B in the Twins system. 

Ryan Clifford - 1B/DH - AAA - 45 FV
- looks like he might be Matt Wallner, for better or worse. I didn't like him much as a prospect but then he significantly cut down his K rate last season which has elevated his stock and might be a good sign. his defense in the OF is probably on par with Wallner, but unlike him seems to be quite a competent 1B. 

Chris Suero - C/DH - AA - 40 FV 
- another fun bat with questionable defense. doubtful he sticks at C longterm and probably doesn't make it to the majors if he doesn't

Not to mention the likes of Mark Vientos, Ronny Mauricio, and Luisangel Acuna. Nor the RP they need to roster on their 40-man that would instantly slot into the Twins bullpen. 

All this to say, I could very easily envision a trade being agreed to between the teams fully ignoring the Mets system strength in their SP and their top 10 OF prospects. And now that I spent so much time thinking about it, I want to actually see it. 

Thank you for your explanation. I am familiar with the Mets system and have seen their top pitchers on several occasions. We just will agree to disagree, but others will agree with you. It's no big deal. Good luck for your Mets.

If the Twins consider moving Ryan they should be looking at teams like the A's who are loaded with young MLB position player talent & need pitching.

Yet we hear teams like the Mets & the Red Sox mentioned even though they seem like poor fits for a Ryan trade.

Who knows what our front office thinks though.

50 minutes ago, MGX said:

If the Twins consider moving Ryan they should be looking at teams like the A's who are loaded with young MLB position player talent & need pitching.

Yet we hear teams like the Mets & the Red Sox mentioned even though they seem like poor fits for a Ryan trade.

Who knows what our front office thinks though.

We have zero idea if West Sacramento will consider trades but that is a team I thought might have interest. My target would be Tyler Soderstrom. It is very easy to say there is no way but at least a text or phone call or email seems in order. There may be others as well within the A's system. You are correct in that it is impossible to know what goes on in the front office. Maybe they think the team is perfect right now.

I don't know enough about any of these Mets prospect give any sort of valid opinion, but it seems like that if do trade Ryan we DO need some MLB-ready position players that can hit and/or play stellar defense, and not any more minor league pitching prospects. 

22 hours ago, ashbury said:

Elaborate.

Let's wait and see what happens.