Article: Mauer Making a Statement?

[Ultima Ratio]

You're right...how about $150,000 per game...or $17,000 per inning?

 

Seroiusly, we're all just jealous. People would still be griping even if he had settled for $18M per year or even $13M...maybe not.

 

I do agree that it's too bad that's what it always comes back to. Joe is a great ballplayer who's having a solid start to the season by his standards and would be considered great by most other's standards.

 

The real caveat with griping the 23 million/year instead of the 15 million that he's producing is this: Only if the front office would take the 8 million/year and purchase quality pitching with is it worth an overall argument of scarce resources and efficiently utilizing that money to produce wins. That's the bottom line: wins. So, if the front office would not take the 8 million and put it to use, then I could care less if that's what Mauer makes, because it's not helping or hurting the team. You could payer Mauer 90million and have the rest of the team make up the 10 million this season and I'd bet we would still get 5 wins thus far. Am I wrong?

[Nick Nelson]

If you mean from an on the field perspective it seems debatable. (I suggest those who believe no other team would pony up for Joe haven't been paying attention to the market.).

Yes, that's what I meant, and I don't really see it as debatable. A great deal of Mauer's value was vested in his playing catcher, which has already become a part-time assignment at age 29. The market doesn't bear much relevance here, as context is key; money spent affects different teams in different ways. For the Twins, Mauer represents nearly a quarter of the payroll. He was paid based on the player he was in 2009 and it seems unlikely we'll ever see that player again -- certainly not every year for the life of the contract (he's already missed that boat).

 

Criticizing the contract is an exercise in hindsight judgment, but that doesn't mean the claims don't ring true. Anyone who's being rational will admit that the Twins had no choice but to get the deal done, and due to some truly unfortunate timing they ended up paying an absolute premium. His bulky contract is something they now have to work around, but it doesn't change the fact that Mauer is ultimately an asset. I'd like to see more people focusing on that truth.

[nicksaviking]

Mauer's contract should not hold this club back in the least. The Rockies were just fine handing out large contracts to their young stars despite the fact that Todd Helton was on the books for one of the largest and worst contracts in the history of the game. The Rockies payroll is $20M less than the Twins.

 

The reason the Twins are going to have trouble signing other big time players is because the Twins refuse to give out long term deals to anyone not in the organization, and never to pitchers. Generally speaking, the longer the contract, the less money the team will have to spend on the player on a yearly basis, as teams often get a discount by adding years. It's front office philosophy, not Mauer's contract that needs to be debated.

[Mike Sixel]

Mauer is an asset, agreed. We can all agree he adds great value to the team. We can all agree that value is greater if he is a catcher. We can all agree that he's a very good to great hitter.

 

If all you want is for people to say "Mauer is a great player", in a vacuum, great, I can do that, and I'm sure others can also. I'll stop posting on this thread, and wait for the threads where we talk about how to make the team better, and the value of various players to discuss his contract and its effect on the roster. Sorry we got off your intended discussion.

[twinzgrl]

I am sick of people bitching about Mauer and his contract. The Twins gave it to him, and when they did, they must have believed that it would pay off. I don't believe that they thought that it meant the gloom and doom that most supposed fans believe it is. The Twins have enough money to get us a decent starter. There just aren't any currently available. Ever see all the Mauer jerseys being worn around the state of MN? MOST people love him, and there is a reason for that. He is the face of the franchise. He is a good guy with a lot of talent. FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO BITCH ABOUT. Johnny Depp makes ludicrous amounts of money for every motion picture he's in...I don't think he's worth that money either, but I'm not going to bitch about it. SOMEONE obviously thinks he is worth it.

[Teflon]

Mauer's definitely got something to prove this year after all the bad fan vibe last year. This just affirms how valuable it is for us to continue being as negative as possible as frequently as possible!

[John Bonnes]

It's clear at this point that Mauer is not going to be worth $23M to the Twins. There's not much use in further hand-wringing about his salary. I'm not sure why every discussion about him invariably needs to circle back to that complaint.

But it's a valid question. If it's a given he's not going to be worth that deal, could the Twins trade him? Should they?

 

I think the answers are No and Maybe later. No, because even if they could find a large market team desperate enough to take it on (and there are a couple) he would need to waive his no-trade clause. And "Maybe later" because I'd like to see where Herrmann and the entire franchise is in a year or so.

[Paul]

Yes, that's what I meant, and I don't really see it as debatable. A great deal of Mauer's value was vested in his playing catcher...His bulky contract is something they now have to work around, but it doesn't change the fact that Mauer is ultimately an asset. I'd like to see more people focusing on that truth.

If Mauer continues on the track he's on for the balance of his career, most will consider him to be the best catcher the game has ever seen. Bench is the name most disagreeers (is this the only word in the English language with 3 consecutive "e"s ?) will cite. Observe.

 

Bench Year position games

68 C 154

69 C 147

70 C 139

OF 24

1B 12

3B 1

71 C 141

1B 12

OF 12

3B 3

72 C 129

OF 17

1B 7

3B 4

73 C 134

OF 17

1B 4

3B 1

74 C 137

3B 36

1B 5

75 C 121

OF 19

1B 9

76 C 128

OF 5

1B 1

77 C 135

OF 8

1B 4

3B 1

78 C 107

1B 11

OF 2

79 C 126

1B 2

80 C 105

81 C 1

1B 38

82 C 1

3B 107

1B 8

83 C 5

3B 42

1B 32

OF 1

 

Bench career OPS .817 ( If Bench played 1B or 3B the current generation of fans would probably be unfamiliar with him.)

 

Maurer career OPS .873 (this includes his injury riddled "11" and subpar "12" to this point)

 

I really like and agree with the last two sentences in your reply.

[Seth Stohs]

1.) We knew all along that from a strictly baseball standpoint, the contract would never make sense, but we also all know that the Twins had to sign him or moving into Target Field may have been a mess.

 

2.) The money is spent. They can't un-do it. They can't alter it. It is what it is at this point.

 

3.) If the Twins have a $95 Million payroll this year, and Joe Mauer is $23 million of it, there is still another $72 million to spend, and Terry Ryan has build playoff teams on less than that. The Mauer contract is just an excuse.

 

4.) The Twins have given long-term contracts to several players. Sometimes it has worked (Hunter, Santana, Radke, Nathan's first one), and some haven't (Blackburn's, Nathan's second one).

[Alex]

IMO, you can criticize the contract, but if that's your issue, you should focus that criticism on organization. I agree that even that's hard to do for reasons mentioned.

 

I think it's ridiculouly unfair to expect a hitter to change, especially adding power, when his track record shows that's just not the type of hitter he is.

 

While I don't mind him playing elsewhere occasionally, the idea that you get more value out of him elsewhere is counter intuitive. In fact, 1B is probably the worst place for him to earn value on the contract.

[Alex]

One more question....let's say the Twins don't have Mauer, would they have spent that money? I'm not convinced and think their payroll could easily be around $75 million instead of $100. They had the opportunity and cash to pick up a couple $5-8 million this year and chose not to. They certainly wouldn't have been out to get anyone more expensive than that like Pujols or Reyes.

[Mike Sixel]

There were plenty of pitchers available in the offseason, and they signed marquis...and cut payroll. So, it isn't that they want to get guys and none were available, they chose not to sign them.

[nicksaviking]

1.) We knew all along that from a strictly baseball standpoint, the contract would never make sense, but we also all know that the Twins had to sign him or moving into Target Field may have been a mess.

 

2.) The money is spent. They can't un-do it. They can't alter it. It is what it is at this point.

 

3.) If the Twins have a $95 Million payroll this year, and Joe Mauer is $23 million of it, there is still another $72 million to spend, and Terry Ryan has build playoff teams on less than that. The Mauer contract is just an excuse.

 

4.) The Twins have given long-term contracts to several players. Sometimes it has worked (Hunter, Santana, Radke, Nathan's first one), and some haven't (Blackburn's, Nathan's second one).

I'm on board with all of this except I would't consider a four year deal long term. The quality of player who sings a four year deal is usually quite different from the type that sign seven year deals.

[Top Gun]

Mauer is worth every penny!