Article: MLB Payroll By The Numbers

[CDog]

All the apologists here will tell us last year the Twins suffered 99 losses due to injuries, and injuries only. Those same apologists will then turn around and tell us cutting payroll is justified because the Twins can't hope to compete in 2012, and probably not for several years. You can't have it both ways.

 

There is NO logical reason to claim both.

 

And there is NO logical reason that cutting payroll helps this team now or somewhere down the road.

Some logical people can hold more than one thought in their head at once. Some can understand that injuries to your best two offensive players and possibly top three and almost certainly four of your top five would have a huge effect...without also believing that it's the only reason. Some might understand that there are actually other teams in the leauge that get better and worse around the team they follow closest and so a contending team one year could be a middle of the pack team the next without having changed all that much. Claiming things are not logical simply because they are not how you see them seems fairly egocentric and small-minded.

[Highabove]

How does the Bullpen look? Terry Ryan stated on Kfan, that it scared him. That was before the first pitch was even thrown.

 

Upgrading the leagues worst Bullpen would have cost just a few million dollars more.

 

There were a lot of games ruined by the Bullpen last year.

[CDog]

My general feelings about payroll conversations are a bit ambivalent. Often it seems like a waste of time to worry so much about something one has zero control over. But at the same time, it can be fun to think about how to try to maximize value within contraints and "play along" so to speak. It seems strange to me, though, when people start wanting or expecting or in their minds directing "their" team to expand those constraints. There is some discrepancy about how much is available, so I get that. But when people start presuming to tell other people how to spend their own private money, it always feels a little...icky. So I always bristle at, "They're rich, so they should do 'x' with their money."

[Shane Wahl]

Keep in mind that a lot of the big free agents would not come to Minnesota to play anyway. Don't forget the other end of the equation--players have to want to come to the Twin Cities.

[cr9617]

Does anyone really think they will make a bigger signing next year? Why would you think that?

I think the answer is definately NO.

 

Willingham's deal was the largest free agent signing the Twins have ever had....roughly 3 years 21 mill.

[Highabove]

Both sides have a valid point of view.

 

Either way, the Pohlad's will make their money

[Hrbie]

I could see them signing a free agent pitcher this offseason, depending on who all is available and what the market is like. I don't think they'll sign any bats. This past offseason was the stopgap year for position players (Willingham, Carroll, Doumit).

Next year they will have Pavano, Maquis off the books for sure and if this season keeps up like this they will not re-up Baker or Liriano either. That is $25+ million off the books for next year. They should be able to get a couple decent arms for the rotation for $10-12 mill each.

[ashbury]

After reading most of the comments, I have changed my view on Payroll.

I now believe that the Pohlad''s did the wise move by slashing Payroll.

The Fan Base is very supportive of this. The Pohlad,s should and will continue to slash the payroll. We should see a 65-70 million dollar payroll soon. I'm sure the Fan base will welcome this with open arms. Even with lower attendance, the Twins will continue to make big money. Their Big market ticket prices will insure them of that. The Revenue will be a lot lower too. They will never have to touch 100 million Dollars again!

Don't be all butt-hurt.

[Top Gun]

If the Twins sign Nate & Cuddyer they would of had a much better team and someone to trade come August.

[Mike Sixel]

Willingham is their largest FA contract ever. They have never traded for or signed a big time, legit player, in his prime earning years to a bigger contract than that, and that's the only 1 I can even think of. Why would you expect them to sign a legit MLB starter for big money next year, given over 40 years of history suggesting otherwise? Does anyone think that is Terry Ryan's approach?

 

I have zero issue with the cut in OF salaries, as Willingam is better than Cuddeyer and cost less, and Kubel is somewhat replacable. It's the lack of spending on the INF and the pitching that convinces me nothing has changed in Ryan's approach from his previous tenure.

 

And, there was plenty of money to sign better pitchers than Marquis this year, they just didn't. There was money to have a better bullpen, and they didn't.

[Guest USAFChief]

I have zero issue with the cut in OF salaries, as Willingam is better than Cuddeyer and cost less, and Kubel is somewhat replacable. It's the lack of spending on the INF and the pitching that convinces me nothing has changed in Ryan's approach from his previous tenure.

 

 

 

Concur. Unless you take the Willingham-over-Cuddyer savings, et al, and invest it elsewhere, you're just padding the Pohlad's bottom line. If that's the objective, I object. And it's pretty obvious that's the objective.

[scottz]

Willingham is their largest FA contract ever. They have never traded for or signed a big time, legit player, in his prime earning years to a bigger contract than that, and that's the only 1 I can even think of. Why would you expect them to sign a legit MLB starter for big money next year, given over 40 years of history suggesting otherwise? Does anyone think that is Terry Ryan's approach?

 

I have zero issue with the cut in OF salaries, as Willingam is better than Cuddeyer and cost less, and Kubel is somewhat replacable. It's the lack of spending on the INF and the pitching that convinces me nothing has changed in Ryan's approach from his previous tenure.

 

And, there was plenty of money to sign better pitchers than Marquis this year, they just didn't. There was money to have a better bullpen, and they didn't.

First of all, I don't think I said I expected them to sign anyone for big money. I do think they'll sign a free agent pitcher for reasonably big money this offseason, for a few reasons.

 

1) Our starting pitching is notably weak, and I don't think it is possible to fill from within in 2013. Perhaps Hendriks and Gibson (assuming a full recovery) are in the rotation in 2013. Perhaps they offer Pavano a one year deal with a club option. Blackburn, assuming he is healthy makes 4. I think they grab a FA to round out the 5th spot (not the 5th starter).

 

2) The FA market should have more quality starters this coming offseason compared to last offseason. If you took the FA's from last offseason and listed the (very subjective) top 10, you might have found: Kuroda, Buehrle, Wilson, Bedard, Colon, Harang, Tomko, Francis, Willis, and our very own Marquis. If you look at potential FA's for this coming offseason, you have these guys: Cain, Greinke, Hamels, Lewis, Marcum, McCarthy, Anibel Sanchez - there are others as well with options that may or may not be used: De La Rosa, Floyd, Haren, Hudson, Myers, Ervin Santana, Shields, and others. Other than the Kuroda, Buehrle, and Wilson, I'd much rather take ANY of this coming offseason's potential FA's over those from this last offseason's. There are other FA starters too for next year that would be equivalent or better than those from this last offseason (Correia, Guthrie, Lowe, Matsuzaka, etc.). It is a good market for buyers this coming offseason. I think the Twins will be in on it. Atypical from their previous ways, but I think they are in an atypical situation as far as the arms go. I don't think they'll be offering any 5-6 year deals, but a 3-4 year deal is not far-fetched for the higher end guys on this list (I don't think).

 

I think the plan right now has to be for 2014 and 2015, and the anchor arm for those teams should be available this offseason. Maybe you're right and they don't do anything. But I think they will.

[TwinVike61]

Willingham is their largest FA contract ever. They have never traded for or signed a big time, legit player, in his prime earning years to a bigger contract than that, and that's the only 1 I can even think of. Why would you expect them to sign a legit MLB starter for big money next year, given over 40 years of history suggesting otherwise? Does anyone think that is Terry Ryan's approach?

Before they signed Mauer for 8 years $180M the Twins had never signed anyone to a long-term, high dollar contract...but then they did. So just because they haven't signed a big FA starter in the past doesn't mean they won't.

[whydidnt]

 

1) Our starting pitching is notably weak, and I don't think it is possible to fill from within in 2013. Perhaps Hendriks and Gibson (assuming a full recovery) are in the rotation in 2013. Perhaps they offer Pavano a one year deal with a club option. Blackburn, assuming he is healthy makes 4. I think they grab a FA to round out the 5th spot (not the 5th starter).

 

I think the plan right now has to be for 2014 and 2015, and the anchor arm for those teams should be available this offseason. Maybe you're right and they don't do anything. But I think they will.

I think you're right that the starting rotation is weak and they should address it from a very strong (as of now) free agent class. However, Terry Ryan indicated before the season began that he thought our starters were the strength of the team. If he felt that way going into 2012, I'm not sure he'll change his mind going into 2013. I hope I'm wrong, but how the Twins evaluate pitchers is pretty different than how many of us do and it really wouldn't be surprising to see them go bottom fishing for another guy like Marquis again. One thing to keep in mind that the fact there are going to be a large number of FAs mean that those teams are also going to have rotation spots to fill, so the market might not be as great as we think since there will also be more buyers.