Twins 5, Yankees 4: Travis Adams Fields His Position, Twins Salvage a Game

[S Bart]

1 minute ago, S Bart said:

Agree to disagree...he has better numbers than many of his peers (your term and prior rationale) who have been brought up as I showed you. So...why are these players better? Then they keep players like Jackson on the bench. You seem to really hate this guy.. cant figure out why? You dont need to waste your time responding....he will not be brought up..  

[S Bart]

3 hours ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

In case anybody was wondering Sabota is 1 day older than Lewis, so expecting him to come up and better or even the same as Lewis is quite the optimism. If people are fine with moving on from Lewis (I am), Sabato shouldn't be the guy you are hoping replaces him. 

I dont be I stated replace....Sabato plays other positions. . .they bring up all of these players and some are worse players than him. He will not be brought up at this stage and the subject irrelevant. This Jackson bench warming issue is ridiculous....one point off topic but shows how weird this whole roster building is with Shelty.

[S Bart]

1 hour ago, Saxophone Joe said:

  ..and a lockout spring

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

5 minutes ago, S Bart said:

So...why are these players better?

Because they have more skills and projectablity? GG, Erod, Jenkins Culpepper all got to AAA years before Sabato (on top of his struggles at an older age in the low minors, .692 OPS in 412 PA in A, .844 in 445 PA in A, .749 in 931 PA in AA, .833 in 727 in AAA)

How many minor league players age 26 or older have been tearing up AAA and people on this site claimed was going to be the next Dozier or solution to a Twins issue? Dozier was a unicorn and still only had 3 years with an OPS+ above 104 and career was over at age 33. 

Older guys in the minors should only be thought of depth and when given a chance and do well ride them and when they start struggling move on. 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

8 minutes ago, S Bart said:

I dont be I stated replace....Sabato plays other positions. . .they bring up all of these players and some are worse players than him. He will not be brought up at this stage and the subject irrelevant. This Jackson bench warming issue is ridiculous....one point off topic but shows how weird this whole roster building is with Shelty.

Sabato has played 2B 1 game for 6 innings in his whole college and minor league career and has only DH'd 21 times (all this year) . 

[S Bart]

14 hours ago, SE23 said:

I have almost no hope that Sabato is part of the Twins' future, but he's checked all the boxes and deserves a shot of some kind. The notion that we can't try something different because Royce is a competent fielder is the philosophy that gets us to 75 wins every year.

Yeah..but he cannot hit the ball...he aids in making it 75 wins. I have almost no hope in him also...Sabato may not be the answer and will not be the final answer.  But Royce has become a disappointment tment... not sure how much more of a leash the Twins can give him...dont get me wrong. Like his cheerleading and face paint and his defense has been good. ...but not sure if he can make the turn at the plate. 

[Riverbrian]

35 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Clement has an OPS of .669 (OPS+83) and has a career OPS of .671 (OPS+83) (and weird when the other Jays aren't hitting as expected they are below .500) It worked last year when Kirk (2.3 WAR), Vlad(4.6 WAR), Bichette (3.4 WAR), Varsho (2.7 WR), Springer (4.8 WAR), Straw (2.8 WAR), Scheider (1.3), Barger (1.2). 

Magnum has an OPS of .703 (OPS+91), career OPS of .700 (OPS+93), and likely was a place holder until Valdez was ready, and played more because of Cruz injury, and has been slightly better than average player (but not batter)

Clemens first time in his career he has an OPS+ of 114, and it took 5 years and 4 teams, lets see if he continue and it play similar to Clement, if he is one of the top players on the team .500 is good goal for the team. 

Those were examples off the top of my head. Check all 30 teams. There are more examples and each example is a story of opportunity gained or lost at ages past 25 years of age.

Ernie Clement has a lower OPS mainly due to a lack of power but he has had 500 AB's he makes the minimum and his OPS isn't much lower or on par with players who make 35 million, 15 million, 7 million. 

And here's the thing. It's not just about Superstars to be worth it. Yes we need to create superstars and we desperately need to do that... but we also need to create average or below average players as well... so we don't have to go to that free agent well and spend 4 or 7 million for them. It also isn't about 6 years of service time to be worth it either. If you get one year or two out of them... that is also fine. Julien didn't pan out but for that one year he almost carried us into the playoffs.   

Magnum... .698 and .703 are his OPS totals. Yes... Below Average but costs the minimum and Esmerlyn will probably run him over but until then... he didn't embarrass himself and he contributed to the Pirates season. 

Clemens got some light opportunity with two teams. Tigers and Phillies. Yeah it didn't work out but a player like Clemens is going to have hit the very moment opportunity is given to him. He's not going to get chance after chance like Lewis or Jenkins. If he doesn't. Back to the minors he goes and he becomes a series of small samples. Yet, we will ride a Margot into the ground while the lesser prospect gets no such opportunity and this isn't just the Twins. 

With us... he got at the very moment he got opportunity and continued to get more opportunity. 

[S Bart]

17 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

Because they have more skills and projectablity? GG, Erod, Jenkins Culpepper all got to AAA years before Sabato (on top of his struggles at an older age in the low minors, .692 OPS in 412 PA in A, .844 in 445 PA in A, .749 in 931 PA in AA, .833 in 727 in AAA)

How many minor league players age 26 or older have been tearing up AAA and people on this site claimed was going to be the next Dozier or solution to a Twins issue? Dozier was a unicorn and still only had 3 years with an OPS+ above 104 and career was over at age 33. 

Older guys in the minors should only be thought of depth and when given a chance and do well ride them and when they start struggling move on. 

Well...his stats this year are great and I could debate your old guy issue and give you examples ...fyi Ross is only 2 years younger.and there are some that have done well at Sabatos 27..but not worth extending this thread. I dont agree and I am not going to change your mind..you are not going to change mine..Shelty can..keep Jackson bench warming....and keep putting rosters forth..have a good day and 

[MapleGroveTwinsFan]

3 minutes ago, S Bart said:

Well...his stats this year are great and I could debate your old guy issue and give you examples but not worth extending this thread. I dont agree and I am not going to change your mind..you are not going to change mine..Shelty can..keep Jackson bench warming....and keep putting rosters forth..have a good day and 

You could give examples because they do exist, but for every example there are 100 (probably more) to counter them. 

I don't blame Shelton for Jackson, that IMO lays directly at the feet of the front office. 

[S Bart]

7 minutes ago, MapleGroveTwinsFan said:

You could give examples because they do exist, but for every example there are 100 (probably more) to counter them. 

I don't blame Shelton for Jackson, that IMO lays directly at the feet of the front office. 

[jmlease1]

Matthews is having an interesting season. When he's on, he can look really good and shut down lineups. When he's off it can get ugly very quickly. Looking at his last 5 games (from oldest to newest) we've got Game Scores of 67, 74, 46, 31, and 74. Two of his best games have been against playoff teams; one of his worst is against one of the teams in the exact same position as the Twins. He's definitely improved over last season, but he's still got things he needs to improve if he wants to be in the rotation. 

The home-away splits are likely just small sample noise; he was neutral on those splits last season and there's nothing specific about him that says he's likely to continue to be so much better at home vs the road, but it's the LH/RH splits that are the most concerning. He still gets raked by LH hitters too often and needs to find a way to get those guys out more often or he'll end up in the bullpen. He's been good at keeping the ball in the park against RH batters, but against LH batters it's too many hits, too many walks, too many hard-hit balls.

Very nice outing against the hated Yankees. Hopefully he goes into the lab in the offseason and looks for an answer to the lefties.