Morneau...the new fan favorite?

[Anorthagen]

As of lately I have been hearing that the average or causal fan isn't cheering for Plouffe, nor Willingham, and not even Mauer. But instead for Morneau? This I have questioned, because of this year alone, Morneau is having an un-Morneau-ish type year. Having only 3 Home Runs and hitting around .290. A defiant bright spot to his season so far is that he has been healthy, which recently has been rare for him.

 

When I asked why anyone would favor Morneau over Mauer, when Mauer is clearly having the better year, they would say things such as "he doesn't complain about injures" or "he hits more Home Runs" (What?!??!!)

 

Anyway, some of these reasons aren't very legit ament (some of it could be because they are the casual fan and choose to blame the face of the franchise, rather then the bits and pieces), but worth questioning. With that I still wonder why he is more favored when there is a good chance he won't be with the Twins next year. So if there is anyone out there who does favor Morneau over Mauer please tell me why or if you think you have a reason on why people do like Morneau over Mauer please tell me why.

[Highabove]

As of lately I have been hearing that the average or causal fan isn't cheering for Plouffe, nor Willingham, and not even Mauer. But instead for Morneau? This I have questioned, because of this year alone, Morneau is having an un-Morneau-ish type year. Having only 3 Home Runs and hitting around .290. A defiant bright spot to his season so far is that he has been healthy, which recently has been rare for him.

 

When I asked why anyone would favor Morneau over Mauer, when Mauer is clearly having the better year, they would say things such as "he doesn't complain about injures" or "he hits more Home Runs" (What?!??!!)

 

Anyway, some of these reasons aren't very legit ament (some of it could be because they are the casual fan and choose to blame the face of the franchise, rather then the bits and pieces), but worth questioning. With that I still wonder why he is more favored when there is a good chance he won't be with the Twins next year. So if there is anyone out there who does favor Morneau over Mauer please tell me why or if you think you have a reason on why people do like Morneau over Mauer please tell me why.

 

More cheering for Morneau then Mauer? We do not see it. Many fans seem to perk up whenever Mauer comes to the plate. There are a lot more Mauer jerseys floating around Target Field then anybody else. I also wonder who the average or casual fan might be. On most nights,the majority of Seats have been purchased by Season Ticket Holders. A good number of them may spend 20-80 games at Target Field. Misinformed? I don't think so.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I haven't been to Target Field so I can't speak to this year, but it wouldn't surprise me if Morneau is getting a lot of love - although I'm guessing Mauer is still in the lead.

 

He has been a close #2 as a fan favorite for years, and people know this is the last year of his contract and he might not be here next year. So he might be peaking in people's interest right now.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Morneau is a fan favorite... The fan favorite I do not know, but Morneau is well liked.

[JB_Iowa]

I have no idea who is cheering for whom but I have to think that a lot of fans are simply happy that Morneau seems to have finally made it back from his concussion and other injuries. The last few years have been a tremendously long haul for him and even last year, people were a bit on pins and needles to see what might happen next. How could you not be happy to see HIM happy?

 

As for trying to judge fan favorites, why even try? It varies from month to month and even game to game. Not just among casual fans but even among the more dedicated fans found here.

[notoriousgod71]

Maybe fans understand they won't have too many more opportunities to cheer for Morneau and are getting it out of the system. Also you have to respect the way he has battled back from his multitude of injuries. He's one of three guys that was around for our playoff years.

[Red Bull]

Im not a casual fan so I was wondering what you casual fans on here think? Is Morneau the new favorite? I know too much about baseball to not realize Mauer is by far the best player on our team. I understand that Morneau could now be the favorite because the casual fan likes RBIs, they dont understand OPS and WAR. So if theres any casual fans in here whos your favorite?

[JB_Iowa]

I can't speak to currently. I don't have any particularly strong feelings either way on Mauer and Morneau at this point in time. I think Morneau's struggles kind of wore me out and I'm now much more interested in the younger players.

 

But historically, I always felt that Morneau was much more the "heart and soul" of this team than Mauer. I admire Mauer's abilities but frankly, he just leaves me cold when it comes to an emotional connection to the team.

 

Perhaps it is because it is hard for me to form that emotional connection with someone who is just "too perfect" -- flaws are what makes someone interesting. Perhaps it is just because I'm not a Minnesotan and never did have (or understand) the near-worshipful attitude that is exhibited by some fans. And Mr. Mauer did not help himself with me when he made it pretty clear that he didn't want to go to Rochester during his rehab in 2011 but wanted to stay in Florida.

 

In any event, I can understand why some fans would root harder for Morneau than for Mauer. And I would guess that it has nothing to do with statistics of any kind. (And I probably still do so myself but I really find myself caring more about the Plouffes, Arcias, Hicks, Parmelees, Gibsons, etc. of the team).

 

 

P.S. I don't know that the "best player" on the team is always the "fan favorite". Seems to me there are other factors than ability that go into connecting with fans.

[Thrylos]

As of lately I have been hearing that the average or causal fan isn't cheering for Plouffe, nor Willingham, and not even Mauer. But instead for Morneau?

 

I finally made it to Target Field for first time ever a couple days ago Thursday.

There was more cheering by people (cannot even call them "fans") for TC Bear and the hot dog canon than anything that happened during the game (and the Twins won and it was a great game.)

 

The problem is that what you call "casual fan" (which is not a fan, really) sees going to a ballpark the same as going to a movie or to a fair or a concert (maybe, I bet concert goers are more tuned to what is going on than folks on baseball stands). So they do not care that much in general. They care more about food and beer selections and in-between inning "entertainment". That's why there are more circle me Bert signs than signs about Twins' players (e.g.)

 

And this is not a Twins only situation, but it is kind of a global phenomenon, and the teams cater to those people instead of the real fans, because that is who brings $ to their pockets. Sad but real.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Im not a casual fan so I was wondering what you casual fans on here think? Is Morneau the new favorite? I know too much about baseball to not realize Mauer is by far the best player on our team. I understand that Morneau could now be the favorite because the casual fan likes RBIs, they dont understand OPS and WAR. So if theres any casual fans in here whos your favorite?

 

I'm not sure it has anything to do with stats at all. Most of it is probably name recognition. Morneau has been around quite a few years, so fans have heard his name numerous times. He's been an all-star selection for several years, has been MVP, and particularly before his injury troubles he hit big home runs. That tends to stick in fans minds over time.

 

And I do think the same is true of Mauer, as well.

[TwinsFanInPhilly]

And this is not a Twins only situation, but it is kind of a global phenomenon, and the teams cater to those people instead of the real fans, because that is who brings $ to their pockets. Sad but real.

 

I'm not certain I understand what is "sad" about different people enjoying the ballpark experience differently that you or I would. Personal differences are what makes life interesting. It's why Baskin Robbins has more than one flavor, it's why one highly skilled investor will buy a stock at a price when another highly skilled investor wants to sell it, and its why one beautiful woman will want to marry me when most of the others chase me with pitchforks and torches.

 

God, if everyone else thought and behaved like me I'd probably want to shoot myself.

[Highabove]

Is it fair to make such a broad judgement which is based on one trip to Target Field?

I can assure you, there are tens of thousands of Fans at the park who take the game very seriously. Many of them are sending Money to the Twins throughout the Winter. The Twins put up a large amount of stats with the room they have to work with. Less then 1% of the crowd is cheering for the free t shirts, it's between inning entertainment, mostly for the kids. Maybe their are a hundred folks holding up (Circle me Bert signs) out of 29 to 35 Thousand. Yes there are folks who are out for a night of entertainment. Many of them are not paying to much attention to the game. How is this a problem? Their Money is also green. We need their Money for a healthy Franchise. It was a dead crowd last Thursday. The Crowd behavior can vary from game to game. Maybe a test can be given to see who can enter the Stadium.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Is it fair to make such a broad judgement which is based on one trip to Target Field?

I can assure you, there are tens of thousands of Fans at the park who take the game very seriously. Many of them are sending Money to the Twins throughout the Winter. The Twins put up a large amount of stats with the room they have to work with. Less then 1% of the crowd is cheering for the free t shirts, it's between inning entertainment, mostly for the kids. Maybe their are a hundred folks holding up (Circle me Bert signs) out of 29 to 35 Thousand. Yes there are folks who are out for a night of entertainment. Many of them are not paying to much attention to the game. How is this a problem? Their Money is also green. We need their Money for a healthy Franchise. It was a dead crowd last Thursday. The Crowd behavior can vary from game to game. Maybe a test can be given to see who can enter the Stadium.

 

Good point, people who are really into the came are pretty quiet between innings

[Vespasian]

The problem is that what you call "casual fan" (which is not a fan, really)

 

I guess I would strongly take issue with this. I am a casual fan. I usually go to games with my family, and I can assure you I pay attention and know exactly what's going on. Even keep score occasionally. What I don't care about is exactly how WAR is calculated or who's filling out the AA roster these days. I think you are overestimating the level of cluelessness at Target Field. As another poster said, there are an awful lot of season ticket holders in the stands. Many years ago when I was 20 I will admit to being as interested in chatting with girl I was with as action on the field. Hey - that's part of life.

 

To the OP's point - I still think Mauer is more beloved. Personally my new favorite is Deduno. Crazy? Yeah. But hey, it's only baseball.

[Kwak]

I finally made it to Target Field for first time ever a couple days ago Thursday.

There was more cheering by people (cannot even call them "fans") for TC Bear and the hot dog canon than anything that happened during the game (and the Twins won and it was a great game.)

 

The problem is that what you call "casual fan" (which is not a fan, really) sees going to a ballpark the same as going to a movie or to a fair or a concert (maybe, I bet concert goers are more tuned to what is going on than folks on baseball stands). So they do not care that much in general. They care more about food and beer selections and in-between inning "entertainment". That's why there are more circle me Bert signs than signs about Twins' players (e.g.)

 

And this is not a Twins only situation, but it is kind of a global phenomenon, and the teams cater to those people instead of the real fans, because that is who brings $ to their pockets. Sad but real.

 

Oh, my brother I fear you have lost your perspective. These mere "casual fans" are people who have something--it's called a "life". They are spending some time to live a part of this "life" that is called "entertainment". Generally this "entertainment" thing is best when shared with others, especially with those who mean a great deal.

 

The purpose of this "entertainment" should not depend on the outcome of the BB game but rather that the time was spent with those that we care about. I recall as a 9 year old going to a Twins game as part of a "knothole gang", admission was $0.50, we wore a stick-on thing and sat in the RF bleachers. The weather was nice, and I had a good time--even though the Twins lost. If that makes me a "casual fan"--well, I can live with that. But I believe that that is what Baseball is all about--getting together with people and sharing an experience and enjoying yourself.

[Anorthagen]

Perhaps I should have been more explainiatory with my use of the word casual. By this I mean someone who enjoys watching the Twins and may bring them up in a conversation every once in a while. Unlike a person, as myself, who is obsessed with the stats and the minor league players of the Twins orginization. My intention of this thread was to ask fellow Twins Daily users if they had an theory or explaination on why recently Morneau has suddenly been put atop some people's favorite Twins lists. I had not intended for this to insult anyone, on how they view the Twins or Baseball. So I ask that this thread can remain a good place for conversation and stay as harmless as possible.

 

Thank you

[Riverbrian]

Guys... Let's back this down a little... Cooler heads please!!!

 

Back on Topic...

 

My father watches the Twins frequently... He knows nothing about Rochester or Josh Hamilton or OPS... but he watches the Twins a lot. I stop by and he says... Who are these guys... We got Mauer... Morneau... and a bunch of guys I've never heard of. And it's great watching the game with Dad... I need to do it more often.

 

Mauer and Morneau have been Twins a long time... I wouldn't say that one is more popular than the other. They are both the closest thing we have to Kirby Puckett right now because of the time spent with this team and the name recognition...

 

That is equity and the lack of home runs won't change that.

[ThePuck]

It seems to me he's always been very popular. He's been my favorite since he joined the Twins.

[Guest USAFChief]

I'm with JB on this one. As a fan, Mauer just leaves me cold. Morneau has always been a favorite of mine, and I'm not so sure he wasn't, at one point, the better player too.

[Steve Penz]

Morneau makes less money than Mauer so that puts him at an advantage in this situation. Bonnes had a cool take on this about 5 podcasts ago. The highest paid guy becomes a lightning rod for the fans emotion. Therefore Mauer will always be under that level of scrutiny even though his average is .325 and his ops is north of .900. Also, due to his struggles with health it gives Mourneau an emotional edge because so many (especially me!) long for the Morneau of a few years ago. On that note let me say that his 7th inning HR yesterday was beautiful. That ball was screaming as it left the park.

[UCLA_YANKEE_COLA]

I'm with JB on this one. As a fan, Mauer just leaves me cold. Morneau has always been a favorite of mine, and I'm not so sure he wasn't, at one point, the better player too.

 

When was Morneau the better player? The first half of 2010 he was better, but in every other year it was either very close (simply with the bat, not taking position into account) or Mauer was clearly better.

 

I see this take (being left "cold" by Mauer) from so many fans and I just don't understand. Mauer has had the more productive career at a premium position. They're both boring personalities (from what we can tell). I don't see how if Mauer leaves you cold Morneau wouldn't do the same. Is it the $$$?

[JB_Iowa]

I see this take (being left "cold" by Mauer) from so many fans and I just don't understand. Mauer has had the more productive career at a premium position. They're both boring personalities (from what we can tell). I don't see how if Mauer leaves you cold Morneau wouldn't do the same. Is it the $$$?

 

You're looking at this from an analytical level and I don't think most fans do that - especially not casual fans. There is no question that Joe Mauer has had the better overall career and if statistics were all that mattered, he'd clearly be everyone's favorite.

 

But, there were a lot of people for whom Cuddy was the favorite when he was a Twin and some who favored Kubel, Denard Span and others.

 

Morneau seems more emotionally distant to me now than he did earlier in his career. When he won the MVP award in 2006 (a lifetime ago now), he seemed to have more fire and personality than he does now. I really think that all his struggles over the last few years have taken a toll on him in many ways (of course, a marriage and children may also have mellowed him out somewhat).

 

But I have fond memories of that young Justin Morneau. It isn't that I dislike Joe Mauer and I certainly appreciate all of his accomplishments. I've just never felt any emotional attachment to him as a fan. But there are obviously a lot of people who have done so.

 

Different people appreciate different qualities in different players.

[Guest USAFChief]

When was Morneau the better player? The first half of 2010 he was better, but in every other year it was either very close (simply with the bat, not taking position into account) or Mauer was clearly better.

 

I see this take (being left "cold" by Mauer) from so many fans and I just don't understand. Mauer has had the more productive career at a premium position. They're both boring personalities (from what we can tell). I don't see how if Mauer leaves you cold Morneau wouldn't do the same. Is it the $$$?

 

I don't like paying premium prices to watch someone settle for flipping a soft single the other way. Hell, there was a time in my life where I could do that.

 

YMMV.

[Anorthagen]

Those are some good points. I complety forgot about the whole money situation.

[cmathewson]

Morneau makes less money than Mauer so that puts him at an advantage in this situation. Bonnes had a cool take on this about 5 podcasts ago. The highest paid guy becomes a lightning rod for the fans emotion. Therefore Mauer will always be under that level of scrutiny even though his average is .325 and his ops is north of .900. Also, due to his struggles with health it gives Mourneau an emotional edge because so many (especially me!) long for the Morneau of a few years ago. On that note let me say that his 7th inning HR yesterday was beautiful. That ball was screaming as it left the park.

 

I was with you until the health thing. Mauer has had the healthier career.

[Steve Penz]

I was with you until the health thing. Mauer has had the healthier career.

 

My wording was not good. I meant that "his struggles with health" was referring to Morneau. I was trying to say that many have been hoping for a long time that Morneau would get healthy and that drives the emotion. Mauer has been much healthier; no question. Sorry for the confusion.