If He's Fired, Rocco Baldelli Will Only Be Minnesota Twins' “Fall Guy”

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

To be clear, if Correa doesn't know if he's hitting fifth or sixth, that's why he's not hitting well? Seriously? 

This team largely plays the same players every day, when healthy. 

Also, good teams use the same lineup because they have good hitters. They didn't use the same lineup to make bad hitters good. 

CC, Buxton, and France play every day. Miranda, before the demotion, and Lee every day at third. Wallner every day in right when healthy. The catchers alternate. So, LF and second basemen not being the same every day kills this team's ability to hit?

[PatG]

On 4/21/2025 at 8:53 PM, bean5302 said:

Not really. Prime Maeda, Berrios, Pineda, Hill, pre-finger Dobnak.

Org Top 10 SP prospects. Jordan Balazovic (#85 overall), Jhoan Duran, Blayne Enlow, Lewis Thorpe

Joking right?  Irony??  Berrios n Duran are still around....

[bean5302]

41 minutes ago, PatG said:

Joking right?  Irony??  Berrios n Duran are still around....

You made it clear you believe our current pitching rotation is much better than the one from 2020, and you were seeking consensus. I do not agree and I see no reason you'd be so bold about your position as to ask me if I was joking.

What would I choose?
2020 Maeda > 2025 Lopez
2020 Berrios > 2025 Ryan
2020 Pineda < 2025 Ober
2020 Hill = 2025 Paddack
2020 Dobnak > 2025 SWR

I'd give the advantage to our 2020 rotation, but I wouldn't fight over the position the rotations were similar, and depending on how bullish fans are about our depth and how much it will be needed, I could even accept somebody thinking the 2025 rotation is a little better. To declare we are so much better in 2025 that anybody who disagrees with you must be joking is a heck of a statement. Berrios and Duran are not in the Twins' rotation.

[PatG]

15 hours ago, bean5302 said:

You made it clear you believe our current pitching rotation is much better than the one from 2020, and you were seeking consensus. I do not agree and I see no reason you'd be so bold about your position as to ask me if I was joking.

What would I choose?
2020 Maeda > 2025 Lopez
2020 Berrios > 2025 Ryan
2020 Pineda < 2025 Ober
2020 Hill = 2025 Paddack
2020 Dobnak > 2025 SWR

I'd give the advantage to our 2020 rotation, but I wouldn't fight over the position the rotations were similar, and depending on how bullish fans are about our depth and how much it will be needed, I could even accept somebody thinking the 2025 rotation is a little better. To declare we are so much better in 2025 that anybody who disagrees with you must be joking is a heck of a statement. Berrios and Duran are not in the Twins' rotation.

This is a decent argument,

Quibble:   I would take Lopez over Maeda (younger, stronger; Maeda was a good pitcher), Berrios and Ryan IMO seem eerily similar (I like both), If Pineda could have stayed healthy....., I didn't think much of Hill (latest "Hope" pitcher), I think Paddack much better (if healthy), SWR over Dobnak

Real strengths of today's Twins pitching staff: the bullpen is excellent, the young pitching depth is the best I've seen for this franchise (far and away; many examples). I think this pitching "pipeline" is due to Falvey (he did it in Cleveland)

 

The better argument would be the 2025 staff versus the 2019 staff (as 2020 was the COVID year). 

2019 versus 2025, I think the starting staffs are pretty much equal (Odorrizi, Gibson....).  I again say the 2025 is better due to the same reason: bullpen and young, MLB-ready starting pitching (at AAA level).

 

BTW, I don't try for consensus, TD has hammered me on my occasional TD foray's...I'm an age-advanced guy (still remember when Twins did spring training in Orlando; Tangerine Bowl expanded to Orange Bowl thus the move to Fort Meyers) .  I still like RBI as a relevant stat.....

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, PatG said:

...Real strengths of today's Twins pitching staff: the bullpen is excellent, the young pitching depth is the best I've seen for this franchise (far and away; many examples). I think this pitching "pipeline" is due to Falvey (he did it in Cleveland)...

2019 Rotation
Berrios 4.4 fWAR, 3.68 ERA > Lopez
Odorizzi 4.3 fWAR, 3.51 ERA > Ryan
Pineda 2.6 fWAR, 4.01 ERA = Ober
Gibson 2.5 fWAR, 4.89 ERA = Paddack
Perez 1.8 fWAR, 4.99 ERA < SWR
The top of the rotation in 2019 was better than what we have today.
2019 Bullpen
Rogers 2.1 fWAR, 2.61 ERA
Duffey 1.2 fWAR, 2.50 ERA
May 0.9 fWAR, 2.94 ERA
Beyond the big 3, Romo, Littell, and Stashak were all excellent.
Our bullpen was better in 2019 as well.

As for the prospect list, I expect Festa and Matthews to be #4-5 starters and for none of the other prospects at AAA to be more than bullpen or spot start arms. In AA, Connor Prielipp is one of 2 upper rotation potential arms we've got in the entire system, and I don't give him more than a 25% chance of staying healthy enough to start. Charlee Soto in A+ is the other, but he's way too far away to bank on him.

20/20 Hindsight shows us the Twins top pitching prospects didn't turn out, but they had just graduated Jose Berrios who is without a doubt the best starting pitcher the Twins have developed (not under Falvey) since Santana/Liriano (or Radke, depending on how you feel about when the guys enter our system). Graterol, Duran, Thorpe, Enlow, Gonsalves weren't as good as our current group, but I feel strongly the TD hype machine has been working overtime on our sure-fire pitching prospects lately. Just like they did with guys like Jordan Balazovic.