In St. Petersburg and St. Paul, Frustration Boiled Over on Wednesday Night

[cheeseheadgophfan]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I never used the word "soft".  I believe what I said is he's a guy that needs to feel 110% in order to play.  But here's the problem.....he may never be 100% again, or certainly not in September.  Anyone who would rather see Willie or Martin or Margot running circles in center field rather than having an 80% Buxton out there is CRAZY.....

[cheeseheadgophfan]

15 hours ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

"Paying attention" being the operative words - Buxton was playing hurt all of last year, requiring hours and hours of time every day in the training room just to be able to swing the bat a few times a game. Literally anyone who reports on the team & has access to the players couldn't stop talking about how much he wanted to play. 

Calling him soft means you're not paying any attention to his entire history in a Twins uniform. You don't want Byron Buxton to be on the field more than he does. Watching the games doesn't mean you're paying attention to what Byron is doing off the field to try and get healthy.

And you're not owed any of his medical information, don't act so entitled. If he was healthy enough to play, he'd be on the field - that's just a fact. Extraordinarily silly to think otherwise - why would he or the team not want him to play if he were healthy? All it takes is a modicum of logic to puzzle this out. 

You act like training, stretching, getting treatment all day is a unique thing.  IT'S HIS JOB!  HE'S GETTING 10'S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY BASEBALL!!!!!  If he worked an 8-10 hour day at the factory and then spent "hours and hours of time every day in the training room" then i'd be impressed.  He plays (or doesn't play) a game for at most 4-5 hours a day.  He should be getting treatment in the training room when he's not playing just to put in a full days work.  

Finally, where did I say i was owed anything from his medicals????  It's been REPORTED that the MRI's have all come back clear.  Somehow, that makes me "entitled" if I comment on that?  Unbelievable.  

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

6 hours ago, cheeseheadgophfan said:

You act like training, stretching, getting treatment all day is a unique thing.  IT'S HIS JOB!  HE'S GETTING 10'S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY BASEBALL!!!!!  If he worked an 8-10 hour day at the factory and then spent "hours and hours of time every day in the training room" then i'd be impressed.  He plays (or doesn't play) a game for at most 4-5 hours a day.  He should be getting treatment in the training room when he's not playing just to put in a full days work.  

Finally, where did I say i was owed anything from his medicals????  It's been REPORTED that the MRI's have all come back clear.  Somehow, that makes me "entitled" if I comment on that?  Unbelievable.  

Like I said initially, it's very clear you're not paying attention. You want to keep running your mouth when you're clearly unqualified in any way to do so? That's on you. 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

26 minutes ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

Like I said initially, it's very clear you're not paying attention. You want to keep running your mouth when you're clearly unqualified in any way to do so? That's on you. 

Still waiting for your qualifications and all this "inside knowledge" that you claim to have........

[ewen21]

11 hours ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

Like I said initially, it's very clear you're not paying attention. You want to keep running your mouth when you're clearly unqualified in any way to do so? That's on you. 

Stop already.   He’s provided the evidence and you refuse to accept it.

 

I don’t understand for the life of me why people have to feel a certain way.  Seems to me the post by The Leviathan must be the prevailing belief here as evidenced by the 8 likes.

 

”It’s in his DNA” to not be able to play.  I don’t know what that means and I don’t see how that’s much different than me saying he is soft.

Add to it the fact that he went mental during an at bat where he looked like garbage.  Instead of focusing and on the AB and shrugging it off he would not quit.  He fixated on the ump in a rehab game.  That right there shows how he is clueless and it looks a little like he wanted out of that game because he couldn’t hit.  

 

Maybe it’s all in his DNA (read not his fault)

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:10 AM, ewen21 said:

Stop already.   He’s provided the evidence and you refuse to accept it.

I don’t understand for the life of me why people have to feel a certain way.  Seems to me the post by The Leviathan must be the prevailing belief here as evidenced by the 8 likes.

”It’s in his DNA” to not be able to play.  I don’t know what that means and I don’t see how that’s much different than me saying he is soft.

Add to it the fact that he went mental during an at bat where he looked like garbage.  Instead of focusing and on the AB and shrugging it off he would not quit.  He fixated on the ump in a rehab game.  That right there shows how he is clueless and it looks a little like he wanted out of that game because he couldn’t hit.  

Maybe it’s all in his DNA (read not his fault)

"Evidence" is a curious choice of words, but not surprising from someone who continues to incorrectly use the word soft. A clean MRI doesn't mean a guy is physically able or cleared to play. The Twins' medical team has not cleared him to play baseball, I think they know a little bit more about his body than a couple of people on a forum.

You can feel however you want to feel and I've never said otherwise, but it is objectively stupid to say that Byron Buxton is soft. Soft means he's choosing not to play - which would be a completely inaccurate characterization of Byron Buxton's career if you would have paid any attention at all to how hard he plays and how much he wants to be on that field.

It's clear neither of you guys paid attention to the work that it took Byron Buxton to play at all last year. Read literally any article from any beat writer on Byron Buxton's training schedule last year. You can start here since neither you or @cheeseheadgophfan seem to be capable of doing any research on your own.

Is spending 7 hours with the trainer before a game, playing the game and getting treatment throughout and going back into the training room after the game enough for you two gatekeepers?

https://www.startribune.com/byron-buxton-interview-injuries-2023-season-minnesota-twins-spring-training/600348249

[ewen21]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:53 PM, cheeseheadgophfan said:

Still waiting for your qualifications and all this "inside knowledge" that you claim to have........

Same here.

 

[ewen21]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:48 AM, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

"Evidence" is a curious choice of words, but not surprising from someone who continues to incorrectly use the word soft. A clean MRI doesn't mean a guy is physically able or cleared to play. The Twins' medical team has not cleared him to play baseball, I think they know a little bit more about his body than a couple of people on a forum.

You can feel however you want to feel and I've never said otherwise, but it is objectively stupid to say that Byron Buxton is soft. Soft means he's choosing not to play - which would be a completely inaccurate characterization of Byron Buxton's career if you would have paid any attention at all to how hard he plays and how much he wants to be on that field.

It's clear neither of you guys paid attention to the work that it took Byron Buxton to play at all last year. Read literally any article from any beat writer on Byron Buxton's training schedule last year. You can start here since neither you or @cheeseheadgophfan seem to be capable of doing any research on your own.

Is spending 7 hours with the trainer before a game, playing the game and getting treatment throughout and going back into the training room after the game enough for you two gatekeepers?

https://www.startribune.com/byron-buxton-interview-injuries-2023-season-minnesota-twins-spring-training/600348249

So much here to pick apart and so little time.  I promise you I’ll give a very detailed response when I get a chance in the next couple of days.

We don’t agree, but to say we aren’t paying attention is absurd.  I’ll show you just how much “paying attention” I have done with regards to Mr. Buxton.

 

And if you disagree maybe you should isolate what it is that you disagree with so we can have an actual discussion.  Cheesehopher has tried several times and you’ve not followed up at all.

[ewen21]

For the record, I feel he’s chosen not to play.  Again, when I’m not so busy at work (later this evening) I’m prepared to explain.

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

3 hours ago, ewen21 said:

For the record, I feel he’s chosen not to play.  Again, when I’m not so busy at work (later this evening) I’m prepared to explain.

This is ludicrous, and laughably so. You will never be able to prove this uninformed opinion, I'd encourage you to save your time. 

I disagree, and so do the facts, with any speculation that Byron Buxton doesn't care or isn't working hard enough to get back on the field. My "inside knowledge" is listening to and reading from the journalists who actually speak to the man. They are infinitely more informed than folks who sit on their couch and spew such unsubstantiated blathering.

[ewen21]

1 hour ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

This is ludicrous, and laughably so. You will never be able to prove this uninformed opinion, I'd encourage you to save your time. 

I disagree, and so do the facts, with any speculation that Byron Buxton doesn't care or isn't working hard enough to get back on the field. My "inside knowledge" is listening to and reading from the journalists who actually speak to the man. They are infinitely more informed than folks who sit on their couch and spew such unsubstantiated blathering.

 

 

Awfully nice of you to answer me.

As already stated by cheesegopher, there is not a shred of documentation/evidence available to us showing what the injury is.  Buxton has been examined by team doctors and his body has been scrutinized for a solid month.  None of the expertise, advanced equipment, or experience in that medical staff can identify what the problem is.  The only thing we are going on is Buxton's account of a hip that is sore since there is nothing team doctors can give us.  This is a matter of trust.  You trust what Buxton is saying and that is fine and I do to a point.  I have no doubt he feels soreness, but I have no doubt he has trouble playing through soreness.  This is why I feel HE is the one who kept himself out of the lineup, not the Twins staff.  It has gotten to the point where they wait for him to say he's ready to go.  Diagnostic imaging techniques allow medical staff to the damage from an injury to ensure the diagnosis is accurate. These techniques include X-rays, computed tomography (CT) scans, and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans.  If any of these techniques yielded anything we'd have been informed.  Since you “pay attention” please direct me to something other than “sore hip” because that comes from the player, not the staff.

For one month hip soreness kept him out of playing meaningful baseball games.  He was put on the 10-day and yet again he mysteriously stretched it out.  Everyone is going on nothing other than what Buxton tells the doctors.  Again, I believe this is where you need to chime in and tell us what the injury is, or maybe you take a beat and ask yourself if you're giving this guy too much leeway?  

In my opinion, he chose to milk this soreness because he’s learned this behavior.  He played a game last week in St. Paul, struck out twice and got ejected in the 3rd inning. After that he complained of a setback and for a couple of days we had no timetable.  Now, magically, days later, he is good to go?  I am sorry.  I can't buy it.  He has a long, long history of injuries and many of them are headscratchers.  Does it seem at all curious to you why he suddenly is straight and the soreness is gone in the snap of a finger?

These are facts about Buxton that cannot be disputed:

He has never scored 70 runs, he has never driven in more than 51 runs, his lifetime average is .243, his lifetime OBP is .304.  He has gotten more than 84 hits just once, has had more than 308 at bats once, was put on a plan to play 100 games two years ago and I think he is still in that mindset because he has been allowed to do just that AND he has played more than 92 games once in his entire career.  These are all facts and it informs an opinion I have, which is this guy has a low threshold for pain.  Period. 

YOu can disagree with me if you want, but I ask that you refrain from the unnecessary insults.

 

[stringer bell]

I don't think any of us know enough about the condition of Buxton's hip to say that he should be playing. IMHO, a "clean MRI" doesn't mean he's not injured. I'm sure that BB doesn't want to go down the path of last year, when he was trying to play at considerably less than 100%. He didn't help the team as a DH and still wasn't able to finish the season. 

There is no doubt that Buxton hasn't put up numbers, based on both his so-so career numbers and his limited playing time due to injury. His injury history can be debated--unlucky, made of glass, something else--but he's undeniably missed huge amounts of time and this projects beyond this season.

He's really valuable when he plays and the team is better when he's on the field and he was going through one of his better heaters when he went down. Twins fans can hope he can find it when he returns.

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

4 hours ago, ewen21 said:

Awfully nice of you to answer me.

As already stated by cheesegopher, there is not a shred of documentation/evidence available to us showing what the injury is.  Buxton has been examined by team doctors and his body has been scrutinized for a solid month.  None of the expertise, advanced equipment, or experience in that medical staff can identify what the problem is.  The only thing we are going on is Buxton's account of a hip that is sore since there is nothing team doctors can give us.  This is a matter of trust.  You trust what Buxton is saying and that is fine and I do to a point.  I have no doubt he feels soreness, but I have no doubt he has trouble playing through soreness.  This is why I feel HE is the one who kept himself out of the lineup, not the Twins staff.  It has gotten to the point where they wait for him to say he's ready to go.  Diagnostic imaging techniques allow medical staff to the damage from an injury to ensure the diagnosis is accurate. These techniques include X-rays, computed tomography (CT) scans, and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans.  If any of these techniques yielded anything we'd have been informed.  Since you “pay attention” please direct me to something other than “sore hip” because that comes from the player, not the staff.

For one month hip soreness kept him out of playing meaningful baseball games.  He was put on the 10-day and yet again he mysteriously stretched it out.  Everyone is going on nothing other than what Buxton tells the doctors.  Again, I believe this is where you need to chime in and tell us what the injury is, or maybe you take a beat and ask yourself if you're giving this guy too much leeway?  

In my opinion, he chose to milk this soreness because he’s learned this behavior.  He played a game last week in St. Paul, struck out twice and got ejected in the 3rd inning. After that he complained of a setback and for a couple of days we had no timetable.  Now, magically, days later, he is good to go?  I am sorry.  I can't buy it.  He has a long, long history of injuries and many of them are headscratchers.  Does it seem at all curious to you why he suddenly is straight and the soreness is gone in the snap of a finger?

These are facts about Buxton that cannot be disputed:

He has never scored 70 runs, he has never driven in more than 51 runs, his lifetime average is .243, his lifetime OBP is .304.  He has gotten more than 84 hits just once, has had more than 308 at bats once, was put on a plan to play 100 games two years ago and I think he is still in that mindset because he has been allowed to do just that AND he has played more than 92 games once in his entire career.  These are all facts and it informs an opinion I have, which is this guy has a low threshold for pain.  Period. 

YOu can disagree with me if you want, but I ask that you refrain from the unnecessary insults.

The medical staff hasn't cleared him to play baseball. Your speculation about his injury is entirely useless. Forming an opinion off of such useless speculation is extraordinarily silly, bordering on intentionally oblivious.

You say there is "not a shred of evidence showing us what the injury is" - I've already called this entitled behavior out for what it is, however it's funny to me that you can't see the obvious hypocrisy in noting this and then immediately speculating as to the nature of his injury. They haven't given information (because you're not entitled to this), and yet you're spinning that as if it means he's perfectly healthy. Copy/pasting a definition you found online of diagnostic imaging isn't really an argument. A clean MRI does not mean he's healthy which, again, is why the medical staff didn't clear him to play baseball.

You have to understand how illogical that is. "I personally don't think he's hurt" could not be further from a fact, and it's honestly pretty funny you think it's smart to portray it as such.

Byron Buxton has a very unfortunate and frequent injury history which has prevented him from playing as much baseball as any of us would like - Byron Buxton most of all. Making that out to be some kind of moral failing is childish behavior, particularly when I have provided you with evidence that he spent 10+ hours in the training room daily for months simply to DH for the Twins last season. Saying he has a low threshold for pain with absolutely nothing to support that should be embarrassing. 

I haven't insulted you, I said your opinions are entirely baseless and objectively wrong given what we know for a fact about Byron Buxton's character. My characterization of your words is not an insult. You simply have not paid attention to that aspect of Byron Buxton's career and you are woefully uninformed to call him soft, or to say he's choosing not to play. That he's back in the lineup tomorrow is even more evidence that he isn't choosing to sit out, and yet you choose to spin that so that you can remain biased against him. That much is entirely evident.

[ewen21]

10 hours ago, stringer bell said:

I don't think any of us know enough about the condition of Buxton's hip to say that he should be playing. IMHO, a "clean MRI" doesn't mean he's not injured. I'm sure that BB doesn't want to go down the path of last year, when he was trying to play at considerably less than 100%. 

You’re free to feel that way, but after ten years we all know enough about HIM.  What we do know is he’s the only one reporting to anyone on the hip.  No one can find anything and the staff is going what Byron says.  At this point, one month for a sore hip is dubious to me.  I cannot give him the benefit of the doubt any longer since this kind of thing has happened over and over again throughout his ten year career.  You guys can give him the benefit of the doubt if you want, but can’t others question him?

 

Bud Grant once said, “availability Trumps ability”.  For all the praise Buxton has gotten here (and everywhere else) over the years his career numbers don’t warrant it, in my opinion.  I’ve seen comparisons to Aaron Judge here and, quite frankly, as a Twins fan I find the comparison embarrassing.  At this point he deserves to be criticized and questioned freely and I’m not the only one who feels this way.  For a guy who has had over 85 hits in a season only he sure has a lot of folks ready to write his sick notes for him.

After a while, the excessive time on the IL  is on him.  Patterns are sometimes hard to fathom but in this case we have nearly a decade of DATA and observation.  For him to say he’s too sore to go just days after that rehab game in St Paul and then suddenly decide “I’m good to go” a few days later is suspect to me.   

Im sorry, but the way this organization has treated him with kid gloves created a Frankenstein.  They set the bar so low with regard to his availability.  I’ve been watching major league baseball since 1972 and I’ve never seen a guy “load managed” in the way he’s been.  He’s been treated like he’s the Hope Diamond.  He’s just another ballplayer to me and all everyday major leaguers deal with soreness at this time of year.  Quite obviously he doesn’t very well at all and I think that’s soft.

[ewen21]

7 hours ago, CCHOF5yearstoolate said:

The medical staff hasn't cleared him to play baseball. Your speculation about his injury is entirely useless. Forming an opinion off of such useless speculation is extraordinarily silly, bordering on intentionally oblivious.

You say there is "not a shred of evidence showing us what the injury is" - I've already called this entitled behavior out for what it is, however it's funny to me that you can't see the obvious hypocrisy in noting this and then immediately speculating as to the nature of his injury. They haven't given information (because you're not entitled to this), and yet you're spinning that as if it means he's perfectly healthy. Copy/pasting a definition you found online of diagnostic imaging isn't really an argument. A clean MRI does not mean he's healthy which, again, is why the medical staff didn't clear him to play baseball.

You have to understand how illogical that is. "I personally don't think he's hurt" could not be further from a fact, and it's honestly pretty funny you think it's smart to portray it as such.

Byron Buxton has a very unfortunate and frequent injury history which has prevented him from playing as much baseball as any of us would like - Byron Buxton most of all. Making that out to be some kind of moral failing is childish behavior, particularly when I have provided you with evidence that he spent 10+ hours in the training room daily for months simply to DH for the Twins last season. Saying he has a low threshold for pain with absolutely nothing to support that should be embarrassing. 

I haven't insulted you, I said your opinions are entirely baseless and objectively wrong given what we know for a fact about Byron Buxton's character. My characterization of your words is not an insult. You simply have not paid attention to that aspect of Byron Buxton's career and you are woefully uninformed to call him soft, or to say he's choosing not to play. That he's back in the lineup tomorrow is even more evidence that he isn't choosing to sit out, and yet you choose to spin that so that you can remain biased against him. That much is entirely evident.

More later

[CCHOF5yearstoolate]

11 hours ago, ewen21 said:

More later

Seriously, don't bother with any more uninformed drivel. You have provided zero factual evidence, it is clear you just have a bias against Byron Buxton. To reiterate, this is embarrassing behavior for a supposed adult. 

You are not owed his medical information. The medical staff knows more about his situation than you could ever know and they only just cleared him to play. These are facts, a word which you clearly have a tenuous grasp on.

Your opinions on this matter are baseless, entirely uninformed and, frankly, worthless. Don't bother.