Cheers to Jason Collins

[biggentleben]

I will say, I worry that this guy might not get a job next year because he's not a very good player and this effort on his part may be minimized. Or that he may not get a job because of talent but it will be perceived as reinforcing stereotypes.

 

He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.

[snepp]

We as a society are fine with homosexuals.

 

In your Utopia perhaps, but not in the real world.

[TheLeviathan]

He's 7' tall and plays solid defense. He won't have a contract if he doesn't want one, otherwise, he'll be playing.

 

Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.

[biggentleben]

Playing 9 minutes a game for one of the NBA's worst teams is hardly an assurance of a roster spot when you are 34. I hope he has a contract, otherwise I worry this might be mitigated.

 

Part of that was the team, though. He'd have had a lot more minutes with the TWolves, the Lakers, or any number of teams who didn't already have two guys with his basic skill set.

[mikecgrimes]

Yeah, that's not true at all. Not even a little bit. If society was fine with homosexuals, why are people up in arms about them getting married? Why do people protest their very existence? Why do politicians fight laws that deny employers the right to fire people based solely on sexual preference? If society was fine with homosexuals, no one would fire them for being gay in the first place.

 

And, again, if this is "no big deal", why is Collins the first active player in any major sport to publicly announce his homosexuality?

 

The law of numbers and the complete absence of other publicly gay active players dictate that this is a very big deal, whether you want to view it that way or not.

 

 

 

No, it shouldn't be a big deal. Collins should be able to go to awards ceremonies, dinner, team events, continue ad nauseum, with his partner, male or female and nobody should care.

 

What I find "self-serving" are the people who think that men like Collins should stay in the closet because gay people are icky. He has every damned right to live his life and be honest about it, just like everybody else.

 

When I say society I don't really care what people over the age of 55 think, and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best. Jackie Robinson didn't get to play the first 10 years as an unknown he was known to be black the day the first non-blind man saw him, and he was born into a very racist society. As for the whole religious and marriage debate, a true religion will never change views it may lose members but the moment it changes views it's done being meaningful, they will fight laws against their belief much more strongly then any other group. In the end who cares if the law changes now or in 2026 we know it's coming and it is legal to live a married life (I understand the critical exceptions).

 

I guess I'm just really bothered that a guy who has next to no chance of an NBA contract next year is doing this at this time. Essra Toualola and John Amechi have already done this, but they didn't do it in a self serving way.

[mikecgrimes]

I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.

 

Wait so I'm not aware of that? HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU BUT I'M NOT AN IDIOT.

[mikecgrimes]

Going into last year ESPN rated him the 391th best NBA player and falling. In the NBA there are 31 teams with 12 "ACTIVE" roster spots, Probably another 50 to 70 on injured reserve. This years NBA draft will add 30-40 players to NBA rosters not to mention other young players from prior drafts will be entering the league. To sat he is an active player or will easily sign with a team is just not true. The Stat wins above replacement assumes players who are better then Jason Collins, or in other words he is easily replaced.

[Brock Beauchamp]

and honestly if you think some old dude is going to sit in the 8th row behind the bench (again pretending we are actually talking about an active player) and yell slurs is stupid at best.

 

Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

 

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.

[mikecgrimes]

Are you honestly telling me that fans are not going to yell slurs at him on the road?

 

Have you seen a sporting event in a city like Philadelphia? They booed Santa Claus, for crying out loud.

 

I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up. The thousands booing Santa were having a good time anyone yelling a slur wouldn't have a good time, it's just not a realistic expectation. Sitting behind the Texas Rangers dugout last April a few months after his relapse I didn't hear one thing about Josh Hamilton's addiction issues. it's just not socially acceptable to make those kind of comments in a public place. It's barley socially acceptable to get on the refs or umpires to bad. If you aren't drunk, and very few fans are all that drunk, nobody is going to make that sort of mistake.

[biggentleben]

I'd boo to if my team was playing like crap and then they plucked some kid out of the crowd in a bad Santa outfit because the real Santa didn't show up.

 

That says it all. Thanks for clearing up any need to reply going forward.

[Guest USAFChief]

I hate to break it to you but 34 year old big men in the NBA are usually near the end of their careers unless they are of extraordinary talent and/or durability. Running up and down a hardwood floor for 10+ years tends to destroy knees, ankles, and backs on even the guards, much less the seven footers.

I think perhaps you're missing the point. A player at the point of his career where Collins is, is certainly not guaranteed a contract next year, it's an iffy thing. I don't know what his motivations were for publicly stating he's gay, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he thought it might help get another contract. It certainly crossed my mind. It's 2013, and if he doesn't get a contract, there will be those who will claim it's because he's openly gay, and it'll be big news, and not favorably. You can be sure the NBA, as an organization, is aware of that. It's been news that he is gay, it'll be news when he does, or doesn't, get a contract. Hopefully his contract for next year is decided based on his merits as a basketball player. But to think this couldn't possibly be a factor in him getting a contract is pretty naïve, IMO, and I think it's naïve to think it's not even possible that Collins considered that. It's possible.

[mikecgrimes]

That says it all. Thanks for clearing up any need to reply going forward.

 

If my team was able to ge the real Santa Clause to show up every year, and then this year they were playing so bad that the real Santa refused to show up, I'd boo the concept of a fake Santa. Kids know the difference between the real Santa and a fake one. The kid pretendin go be Santa understood. If anyone ever boos the real Santa I'll beat them up. Santa's my hero.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think perhaps you're missing the point. A player at the point of his career where Collins is, is certainly not guaranteed a contract next year, it's an iffy thing. I don't know what his motivations were for publicly stating he's gay, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he thought it might help get another contract. It certainly crossed my mind. It's 2013, and if he doesn't get a contract, there will be those who will claim it's because he's openly gay, and it'll be big news, and not favorably. You can be sure the NBA, as an organization, is aware of that. It's been news that he is gay, it'll be news when he does, or doesn't, get a contract. Hopefully his contract for next year is decided based on his merits as a basketball player. But to think this couldn't possibly be a factor in him getting a contract is pretty naïve, IMO, and I think it's naïve to think it's not even possible that Collins considered that. It's possible.

 

If you want to assume the negative of the situation, sure, I guess that's possible.

 

But what is more likely is that he's making a statement near the end of his career. He no longer has to fear facing hostile crowds for ten seasons and no longer has to fear teammates being unaccepting of his lifestyle. He's probably more comfortable with who he is as a person and his family is surely financially secure at this point. Doing something like this has to be scary as hell... I've known plenty of people who came out and it was terrifying for them and they didn't have to do it on the national stage and automatically become part of the civil rights movement because of it.

 

It makes all the sense in the world why he would do this as his career is nearing its end and I doubt it has much to do with "I want my contract extended" and more to do with "this is who I am as a person and after years of hiding, I want to be honest about it".

 

With Collins being a multi-millionaire with very little left to prove at this point, what do you think is the more likely scenario?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Kids know the difference between the real Santa and a fake one.

 

[mikecgrimes]

 

With Collins being a multi-millionaire with very little left to prove at this point, what do you think is the more likely scenario?

 

Whats the definition of multi millionaire? because one more veteran minimum contract will probably increase his net worth by over 10% and thats if he's been somewhat smart with his money. The norm for pro athletes is to be broke by age 40. Property taxes alone will do it once the money stops coming in.

[Guest USAFChief]

If you want to assume the negative of the situation, sure, I guess that's possible.

I'm making no more of an assumption than you are, all I said is it's possible. But if you get right down to it, if he "no longer has to fear hostile crowds (or)...teammates being unaccepting," he's more comfortable with who he is and financially secure, why would this be "scary as hell?"

[PseudoSABR]

I think it was important that he was a free agent, so he didn't force his former clubhouse to accept him out of hand. Maybe he is too old, of no use, but that's hardly the common narrative. Even the cynical narrative points to the fact that he had a fiance (/hattip Howard Kurtz) rather than the unlikelihood of his continuing NBA career as the nefarious spearhead to a self-serving admission.

 

Beyond all the gloss and the political proselytizing, there seems to be a convincing admission, which many within the game have real respect, and so very few seem to dismiss as anything less than legitimate.

[Brock Beauchamp]

But if you get right down to it, if he "no longer has to fear hostile crowds (or)...teammates being unaccepting," he's more comfortable with who he is and financially secure, why would this be "scary as hell?"

 

Seriously. You didn't really just say that.

 

How would doing something like this not be scary? Should he just ignore right-wing nuts who say every awful thing they can about him during the 24 hour news cycle? Should he just ignore the hate mail that he is surely receiving at this point? Going from "mostly ignored veteran" to "ambassador of gay rights in 2013" is terrifying no matter how you look at it.

 

Just because it's easier to do this at the end of his career does not mean it's easy for him to do it.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Even the cynical narrative points to the fact that he had a fiance (/hattip Howard Kurtz) rather than the unlikelihood of his continuing NBA career as the nefarious spearhead to a self-serving admission.

 

I didn't realize he was engaged. In that case, I declare Occam's Razor.

[Guest USAFChief]

Seriously. You didn't really just say that.

 

How would doing something like this not be scary? Should he just ignore right-wing nuts who say every awful thing they can about him during the 24 hour news cycle? Should he just ignore the hate mail that he is surely receiving at this point? Going from "mostly ignored veteran" to "ambassador of gay rights in 2013" is terrifying no matter how you look at it.

 

Just because it's easier to do this at the end of his career does not mean it's easy for him to do it.

Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

[biggentleben]

Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

 

In the general populace, sure. In the confines of a locker room in a professional (or even collegiate) sport, not near as much. There's a reason that Brendan Ayanbadejo and Chris Kluwe get so much publicity. Not just because they talk about the issue, but because it's so incredibly rare that they speak out so strongly on the side that they do.

[Shane Wahl]

This thread got a bit wild. Not sure how anyone could possibly see this as self-serving. The dude isn't some dumbass looking for fame. He realized that he needed to be a leader since--other than Griner--no one had yet stepped forward.

 

The "league" doesn't find roster spots for players. Individual teams do. Collins is likely a 12/13th player, going back and forth between being active and inactive. But he will likely be on someone's playoff roster next year as a third center. Clearly OKC could use someone like him right now against Memphis.

[Shane Wahl]

Watch These Straight People Answer A Question Gay People Have Been Asked For Years

 

Good video.

[freshinthehouse]

I follow the Celtics, so I got to see Collins play a bit this season. Dude is no great shakes, but he is def going to be on a roster if he wants to. Plays good man to man on bigs, and he handled the Celtics team defense fairly well. By all account he was a good guy in the locker room as well. He'll end up on someone's bench.

[Mike Sixel]

If people don't think coming out is scary, read up on the losers in NY that beat the crap out of guys because they thought were gay after the Knicks game last week.......ya, being gay and out is no big deal at all.....

[biggentleben]

I follow the Celtics, so I got to see Collins play a bit this season. Dude is no great shakes, but he is def going to be on a roster if he wants to. Plays good man to man on bigs, and he handled the Celtics team defense fairly well. By all account he was a good guy in the locker room as well. He'll end up on someone's bench.

 

Exactly. No one is assuming he'll have a prominent role for a team, but he's absolutely got a job on an NBA bench if he wants it at this point in his career, especially on defense.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

Uh, yes? It's 2013. Rightfully so, gay rights have come a long way in a decade, and so has acceptance. There are hateful people in the world, some of whom will doubtless yell unkind things. Unpleasant, to say the least? Sure. "Terrifying?" I think that's overselling it by a large margin. Those people yelling those things are saying much more about themselves than about Collins, and I think a substantial majority of Americans would agree with that statement. Again, it's 2013. Times are a'changin.

 

People still get killed for being gay. Having a crowd scream slurs me would scare the hell out of me if I was in a similar situation. In general people are OK... groups? Not so much.

[mikecgrimes]

 

The "league" doesn't find roster spots for players. Individual teams do.

 

Just because something always has been true doesn't mean it will be true in this situation. I see it as very reasonable that every GM in the league will pass on him. As a borderline player who is capable of still playing some the league will do what is best for the league. If that means saying behind the scenes to a GM or two that they will pay his salary that is exactly what will happen. Two assumptions are in play, 1 every GM will pass on him, and 2 the league will want him on a roster enough to make that decision a no brainer for some GM.