Byron Buxton and the Trout timeline

[jokin]

I posted a video of Buxton's triple in the Buxton thread. He gets to third in 11 seconds. It's crazy.

 

The latest video from today's game on Buck's triple shows Buxton cruising in to thrid in just around 10 seconds.

And it looked like he was easing it back as he approached third. Unreal.

[Mike Sixel]

So, anyone care to explain why Buxton is not promoted? I continue to be amazed by the way Ryan is running this org this year.

[Oldgoat_MN]

So, anyone care to explain why Buxton is not promoted? I continue to be amazed by the way Ryan is running this org this year.

 

Given that I always keep in mind that a prospect is just a prospect and many have been moved too fast, I am usually OK with going slow.

 

There is a point, however, where it seems ill-advised to keep them at a particular level. Had he played for the Twins, would Pujols have had to wait until he was 23 to win ROY?

 

If Buxton struggles in A+, fine! Everything I read about this kid suggests he will bear down and make it work.

[howieramone1406390264]

So, anyone care to explain why Buxton is not promoted? I continue to be amazed by the way Ryan is running this org this year.

So am I. I can certainly see him winning the Baseball Executive of the Year in the next few years. Those who have studied the inevitable rebuilding process faced by most organizations over time, are witnessing a master at work.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Buxton is going to get promoted, I'm not sure why exactly people are getting their panties up in a wad b/c it doesn't happen on their timeline. Moving Buxton to Fort Meyers is going to involve making other moves as well. It's not as simple as just getting him a plane ticket. No doubt this will happen soon.

 

Also, if this is bothering Buxton, then we have much bigger problems here.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2nd to 3rd in what looks to be 9 - 10 steps and a slide

[Mike Sixel]

Nice personal attack......I thought this board was for discussing baseball stuff, good, bad, middle.....

[John Bonnes]

Nice personal attack......I thought this board was for discussing baseball stuff, good, bad, middle.....

 

Just a reminder to everyone - rather than comment on inappropriate posts, please notify administrators using the icon at the bottom of each post that looks like a triangle with an exclamation point it it. FWIW, mike wants wins did just that after his quote, but just a tip for everyone else.

[Mike Sixel]

sorry....

[jokin]

Buxton is going to get promoted, I'm not sure why exactly people are getting their panties up in a wad b/c it doesn't happen on their timeline. Moving Buxton to Fort Meyers is going to involve making other moves as well. It's not as simple as just getting him a plane ticket. No doubt this will happen soon.

 

Also, if this is bothering Buxton, then we have much bigger problems here.

 

Who said anything about promoting Buxton on "their" timeline? Using objective criteria for how and when Buxton should be promoted has been the point of this entire thread.

 

With a rarefied talent such as Buxton, the "other moves" machinations as an excuse for not fast-tracking is a flimsy one, at best. That Buxton hasn't been moved, what with the trading of the only 2 legitimate major league CFs and the resultant crying need for projectable CFers up and down the organization, it's just another par for the course example of the Twins slowplay, ala, Gibson, Sano. It's certainly not surprising, for the Twins organization, past is prologue, it's the reason I started the thread.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Who said anything about promoting Buxton on "their" timeline? Using objective criteria for how and when Buxton should be promoted has been the point of this entire thread.

 

With a rarefied talent such as Buxton, the "other moves" machinations as an excuse for not fast-tracking is a flimsy one, at best. That Buxton hasn't been moved, what with the trading of the only 2 legitimate major league CFs and the resultant crying need for projectable CFers up and down the organization, it's just another par for the course example of the Twins slowplay, ala, Gibson, Sano. It's certainly not surprising, for the Twins organization, past is prologue, it's the reason I started the thread.

 

I think you overreacting, which is my point. An extra week or two at CR is hardly going to hurt the kid's development, and as I said, if it bothers him, he has bigger issues, as in how is he going to handle real adversity when he eventually struggles?

 

Also, this org is hardly deft of CF talent. Even trading Span and Revere (and I'm not sure I'd call Revere a legitimate CF, but that's a different debate), they have plenty. Morales, Buxton, and Kepler all come to mind, and two of them are fairly high regarded prospects, and Hicks is a pretty decent prospect in his own right.

 

My concern with this "slowplay", is that I can find plenty of examples of what rushing a prospect does to their development, and most aren't good. Buxton is going to finish this season in Fort Meyers, and if he does really well, may start in NB. That's already pretty fast, and an extra week or two in Florida won't change that.

[jokin]

I think you overreacting, which is my point. An extra week or two at CR is hardly going to hurt the kid's development, and as I said, if it bothers him, he has bigger issues, as in how is he going to handle real adversity when he eventually struggles?

 

Also, this org is hardly deft of CF talent. Even trading Span and Revere (and I'm not sure I'd call Revere a legitimate CF, but that's a different debate), they have plenty. Morales, Buxton, and Kepler all come to mind, and two of them are fairly high regarded prospects, and Hicks is a pretty decent prospect in his own right.

 

My concern with this "slowplay", is that I can find plenty of examples of what rushing a prospect does to their development, and most aren't good. Buxton is going to finish this season in Fort Meyers, and if he does really well, may start in NB. That's already pretty fast, and an extra week or two in Florida won't change that.

 

Overreacting? Hardly. This thread curiously echoes the threads on Gibson and Sano. Your side keeps coming up with more admonitions to be patient, wait for more consistency to develop, defensive liabilities that need to be addressed, et al, ad infinitum.....blech! "Just a week or two won't make a difference" becomes a recurring pattern and theme, it was used in April, May and now, it looks like, June, as well. As has been stated elsewhere, similarly talented guys in other organizations are promoted on their own timeline, not a cookie cutter approach that appears to be the extent of the Twins thinking here.

 

This guy is a very, very rare legitimate 5-tool, major-league-ready defender. He has been compared, not just by me, but by the reams of professional scouts, managers, pundits and evaluators, to the very best who play the game now, and the very best of all time. So again, who is overreacting here? The defenders of the FO of any move they make with their stultified promotion process?, or the statistical facts and video evidence presented in this thread, alongside the multitudes of outside, unbiased professionals who have tabbed both Sano, and now, even more so, Buxton as very special players deserving of being on a much faster track to the majors, alongside similarly talented peers who have made the jump from other organizations?

 

As far as CF organizational depth, you are probably the only person left who would still have Morales come to mind, Kepler probably ends up in a corner spot, and oh, we have already mentioned Buxton, why did you mention him again? So really, there's just Hicks and Buxton, and the jury is still out on Hicks. Given the rate of Buxton's current progression and the Twins history, sometime in 2016 is probably the absolute earliest that we can expect Buxton to become ensconced in the Twins' CF spot. When you consider how other organizations have handled such elite-level talent, it's really laughable to contemplate that likely reality for Buxton.

[jokin]

So am I. I can certainly see him winning the Baseball Executive of the Year in the next few years. Those who have studied the inevitable rebuilding process faced by most organizations over time, are witnessing a master at work.

 

If I didn't know better, this sure sounds like sock puppet theatre. I know you're not one, but some of your posts surely could have been produced at One Twins Way.

 

Having said that, I'm guessing that your "witnessing a master at work" line shows you simply aspire to satire.

 

I'm grateful that there are differences of opinions. If you are in fact, serious in your admonition, I'd be most interested in hearing the reasons and scenario you see that will play out your prediction. I'd also like to hear why you take such issue with those who don't see the need to have to wait until 2018 for Ryan to make himself worthy of the award.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Overreacting? Hardly. This thread curiously echoes the threads on Gibson and Sano. Your side keeps coming up with more admonitions to be patient, wait for more consistency to develop, defensive liabilities that need to be addressed, et al, ad infinitum.....blech! "Just a week or two won't make a difference" becomes a recurring pattern and theme, it was used in April, May and now, it looks like, June, as well. As has been stated elsewhere, similarly talented guys in other organizations are promoted on their own timeline, not a cookie cutter approach that appears to be the extent of the Twins thinking here.

 

I'm not sure you know what "my side" stands for. I think you are arguing against an argument that you think I'm trying to make. I have no doubt Buxton gets promoted, and I expect it, but worrying that hasn't happened today or tomorrow doesn't bother me b/c I know it will happen soon. It has nothing to do with defensive liabilities and what not. And in April, he had no business being promoted... same with May. There's this thing called a sample size, and if you've forgotten, he struggled a bit in May as the league adjusted. He clearly adjusted again himself, but that's a part of what this is about.

 

This guy is a very, very rare legitimate 5-tool, major-league-ready defender. He has been compared, not just by me, but by the reams of professional scouts, managers, pundits and evaluators, to the very best who play the game now, and the very best of all time. So again, who is overreacting here? The defenders of the FO of any move they make with their stultified promotion process?, or the statistical facts and video evidence presented in this thread, alongside the multitudes of outside, unbiased professionals who have tabbed both Sano, and now, even more so, Buxton as very special players deserving of being on a much faster track to the majors, alongside similarly talented peers who have made the jump from other organizations?

 

I suggest you spend some time reading up on minorleague ball and other sites. Lots of minor league players compare favorably to hall of famers as they come up... and then the year after, people compare the next round favorably to the HOF guys or that hot prospect from the year before. If you are advocating promoting him based on comparison, there's something seriously wrong with your approach.

 

I get that he's a 5 tool guy, and again, if you look around the minors you'll find that being 5 tool isn't exactly rare. They flame out all the time, one good example is some guy named Benson that seems rather famous around these parts.

 

As far as CF organizational depth, you are probably the only person left who would still have Morales come to mind, Kepler probably ends up in a corner spot, and oh, we have already mentioned Buxton, why did you mention him again? So really, there's just Hicks and Buxton, and the jury is still out on Hicks. Given the rate of Buxton's current progression and the Twins history, sometime in 2016 is probably the absolute earliest that we can expect Buxton to become ensconced in the Twins' CF spot. When you consider how other organizations have handled such elite-level talent, it's really laughable to contemplate that likely reality for Buxton.

 

You said centerfield depth. I listed 3 guys with a potential future and noted that two of the three were pretty decent prospects (and I'll give you a hint, but Morales wasn't who I was thinking about, it was Buxton and Kepler)... and added that the guy in the bigs right now is a prospect as well. Morales is exactly what you say this team is lacking... depth. He's still young enough to have the potential to be a prospect, and in AA right now, could factor as someone to help out next year should this recent improvement stick. And that's with me forgetting about Derek Rodriguez, who is also a CF. This team doesn't have a problem with CF depth in the minors, it has a problem with CF depth in AAA. There's a big big big big big difference. And when I consider other organizations, I see some that take their time bringing up prospects, and others like the Mets who rush them as you would suggest... How did that work out for Carlos Gomez again? He's on his 3rd team and finally this year having a sort of break out season, and for every Gomez, there's a guy like Delmon who was rushed and amounted to nothing. He'd have been much better served spending more time in the minors learning his trade.

 

As for the Twins' progression, you ignore history... Remember that elite kid named Mauer? He got up pretty quick. Garza? It happened. You forget that at the end of Ryan's tenure, they had a bad couple of drafts and had no one worth rushing.