Buxton Has Setback

[Jham]

Buxton's range gets him to balls offers wouldn't catch which he's credited with by statcast, but it also allows Rosario and Kepler to get to balls other corner outfields wouldn't get to. Buxton makes the whole outfield better.

[ewen21]

I just looked up Buxton's fielding record.  In games where he recorded two putouts or less the Twins have been 29-12, 16-9 when he has one put out or less and 6-3 when he didn't make a single putout.

 

That said, I want him out there because he makes us better defensively.

 

HOWEVER, it serves to illustrate how talk of his glove meaning THAT much to the record the Twins have when he plays isn't a good measure of how much he means to the team. He is an important player, but in my opinion Nelson Cruz has meant more to this team than Buxton has this year and he doesn't even own a glove.  His bat and his professionalism makes him valuable

 

Defense matters a lot so I cannot be labeled as someone who doesn't care about defense.  The problem I have here is with the analysis.  Ted Williams never got to a World Series.  Dan Marino never won anything.  Mike Trout never won anything.  In fact the Angels are 6-3 without him this year and 58-69 with him.  What does that mean?  What are we supposed to glean from that?

 

Buxton wins us maybe two or three games a year with his glove.  There are a few other CFs in baseball who do that as well.  He has a great glove, no doubt....but let's not act like his glove cures cancer.

[ewen21]

Buxton's WAR this year (fangraphs)

 

He has played in 81 games and has made 215 putouts.  This falls in line with historical data of EVERY centerfielder in baseball during the modern era.  For all the great plays he makes we really need to stop assuming ONLY BUXTON can make that play.  Lots of players can make many of the great plays he makes and that makes just a fraction of his web gems that are unique to him.

 

I am not discounting defense.  I am just trying to understand how anything can think the W-L record is attributable to his glove.  We try to have serious conversations here.  How does this pass for serious? 

[ashbury]

HOWEVER, it serves to illustrate how talk of his glove meaning THAT much to the record the Twins have when he plays isn't a good measure of how much he means to the team. He is an important player, but in my opinion Nelson Cruz has meant more to this team than Buxton has this year and he doesn't even own a glove.  His bat and his professionalism makes him valuable

Few were more in favor of signing Cruz than I.

 

But Buxton's glove is what makes Buxton's bat important. We are blessed with some good bats who can fill in at CF in his absence. But to get a glove of his caliber means taking a serious hit on the offensive side of the game. We may look back later and see that Buxton's current .827 OPS wasn't sustainable. But if, on the contrary, it turns out this was the year he achieved his potential, a bat like his in CF (compared to his defensive peers) is perhaps greater than Cruz's (compared to his DH peers).

[ewen21]

 

Few were more in favor of signing Cruz than I.

 

But Buxton's glove is what makes Buxton's bat important. We are blessed with some good bats who can fill in at CF in his absence. But to get a glove of his caliber means taking a serious hit on the offensive side of the game. We may look back later and see that Buxton's .827 OPS wasn't sustainable. But if, on the contrary, it turns out this was the year he achieved his potential, a bat like his in CF (compared to his defensive peers) is perhaps greater than Cruz's (compared to his DH peers).

We won't find that out, will we?

 

There is the trouble I have with Buxton with all these injuries, mishaps and setbacks. His main talent is speed.  He isn't above average anywhere else.  He was billed as a five tool guy and he is missing two very important tools.

 

You know, Alex Ochoa was supposed to be a five tool player...…..

 

When we start talking about what we hope for and what could have happened it concerns me.  Am I wrong to be concerned about this player?

[prouster]

We won't find that out, will we?

 

There is the trouble I have with Buxton with all these injuries, mishaps and setbacks. His main talent is speed. He isn't above average anywhere else. He was billed as a five tool guy and he is missing two very important tools.

 

You know, Alex Ochoa was supposed to be a five tool player...…..

 

When we start talking about what we hope for and what could have happened it concerns me. Am I wrong to be concerned about this player?

Why on earth are you bringing up Alex Ochoa? This thread...

[ewen21]

 

Why on earth are you bringing up Alex Ochoa? This thread...

 

I am not doing an analysis it was a cautionary statement.  How long do we extend out the timeline for potential?  That is the question.

 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

[prouster]

I am not doing an analysis it was a cautionary statement. How long do we extend out the timeline for potential? That is the question.

What does Alex Ochoa have to do with any of that?

[ewen21]

 

What does Alex Ochoa have to do with any of that?

I would rather PM you than carry on a sidebar discussion with you here.

 

You OK with that?