Half Measures

[yarnivek1972]

Not to be a grammar snob but it's "toe the line" (personal pet peeve of mine).

 

Anyway, what choice did they have with Jorge? Or are we talking about the old front office? Anyway, the mistake with Polanco was made 6-7 years ago in rookie ball. He would be out of options this season either way. It's such an old mistake it may have even happened during Smith's tenure (I think it did but don't feel like looking it up now).

 

I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, only that the Polanco mistake borders on ancient history.

I'm talking about Felix Jorge.

[Craig Arko]

 

This is one of those situations where I wish the front office would be a little more transparent. Just give us a single sentence about why Colon is starting games for this team in August. Maybe they have a legit reason. Maybe they don't. I'd just like to know a little more about their thought process.

Maybe Mueller can ask the grand jury to issue subpoena's.

[yarnivek1972]

There is also a difference between a spot start as part of a doubleheader and calling up a pitcher to take regular turns in a rotation. Huge difference.

They still had other choices. They chose Jorge. Twice. Anyway you (and the FO) spins it, it still indicates that they felt he was ready.

[Squirrel]

These same talent evaluators felt Felix Jorge was ready and that Byron Buxton was a good fit for the 3 spot. What makes their judgement beyond reproach?

If he were 'ready' I think he'd have been here for more than 2 spot starts.

[drjim]

They still had other choices. They chose Jorge. Twice. Anyway you (and the FO) spins it, it still indicates that they felt he was ready.

Ready for a spot start, and he did fine. Forced into a second start by some circumstances and predictably not good.

[drjim]

If Gonsalves was on the roster it probably would have been him.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I'm talking about Felix Jorge.

Oh, hahah, fair enough. Somehow I missed that entirely. Carry on.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

They still had other choices. They chose Jorge. Twice. Anyway you (and the FO) spins it, it still indicates that they felt he was ready.

 

They chose him twice due to no other options. Gonsalves isn't ready and isn't on the 40 man. Romero has been on a strict innings count.

 

Like it or not, the purpose of the 40 man is for those spot starts, and if they thought Jorge was ready, they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Colon and Gee. Those are stop gap measures.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If Gonsalves was on the roster it probably would have been him.

Then it's my opinion he should be on the roster. The team has a few guys they can jettison this offseason (Gibson) and Gonsalves isn't the type of guy you worry about with service time and he's old enough where if options become a problem down the road, then it's likely Stephen Gonsalves is a problem as well so you just move on from him. Gonsalves is just a month and a half younger than Berrios.

[yarnivek1972]

Ready for a spot start, and he did fine. Forced into a second start by some circumstances and predictably not good.

We have different opinions of what "fine" is. For his first MLB start, it wasn't abysmal. But I don't think it warranted another start with other choices available on a team that was still in first place at the time.

 

It all comes back to the lack of direction by the front office from day one. They literally didn't decide if this team was a contender or not until July 29. All season long they have made moves that if taken by themselves indicate trying to contend. But there were others, like using Jorge, that indicate a rebuild effort. There was no cohesive plan that they stuck to.

[yarnivek1972]

They chose him twice due to no other options. Gonsalves isn't ready and isn't on the 40 man. Romero has been on a strict innings count.

 

Like it or not, the purpose of the 40 man is for those spot starts, and if they thought Jorge was ready, they wouldn't have gone out and gotten Colon and Gee. Those are stop gap measures.

The Twins have shuttled guys on and off the 40 man all year. Jorge was a CHOICE.

[drjim]

Then it's my opinion he should be on the roster. The team has a few guys they can jettison this offseason (Gibson) and Gonsalves isn't the type of guy you worry about with service time and he's old enough where if options become a problem down the road, then it's likely Stephen Gonsalves is a problem as well so you just move on from him. Gonsalves is just a month and a half younger than Berrios.

Don't agree at all on that options analysis. He could very much be up and down the next three years and still provide value.

 

He's not so good that it's likely he's going to come up and dominate and not look back.

[drjim]

We have different opinions of what "fine" is. For his first MLB start, it wasn't abysmal. But I don't think it warranted another start with other choices available on a team that was still in first place at the time.

 

It all comes back to the lack of direction by the front office from day one. They literally didn't decide if this team was a contender or not until July 29. All season long they have made moves that if taken by themselves indicate trying to contend. But there were others, like using Jorge, that indicate a rebuild effort. There was no cohesive plan that they stuck to.

I don't really disagree on the lack of direction, been a scramble for pitching all year. But using Jorge for a spot start at that point made sense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Don't agree at all on that options analysis. He could very much be up and down the next three years and still provide value.

 

He's not so good that it's likely he's going to come up and dominate and not look back.

Unless I'm reading the tea leaves all wrong, I believe the Twins can call up Gonsalves without burning an option.

 

Paging spycake.

[Brock Beauchamp]

And that is correct. They won't burn an option unless they demote Gonsalves for 20 days.

 

Which would be quite the challenge, as the MiLB season ends in a month.

[drjim]

Unless I'm reading the tea leaves all wrong, I believe the Twins can call up Gonsalves without burning an option.

 

Paging spycake.

They can now call him up for the rest of the year without burning an option, but not for the spot start that Jorge made earlier in the year I was referencing.

 

I wouldn't be stunned if Gonsalves gets a handful of starts in September. Either that or he goes to Arizona (or possibly both). I'll be interested to see how the front office plays it out.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

And that is correct. They won't burn an option unless they demote Gonsalves for 20 days.

Which would be quite the challenge, as the MiLB season ends in a month.

Correct, today.  In the context of Jorge's MLB starts, which came a month ago, it was a little different.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen Romero.  His turn lined up for those 2 starts as well.  Where possible, prefer upside.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Correct, today. In the context of Jorge's MLB starts, which came a month ago, it was a little different.

 

Personally, I would have liked to have seen Romero. His turn lined up for those 2 starts as well. Where possible, prefer upside.

Sure, same here, in just not sure it mattered much. Either way, Romero wasn't going to play a key role this season due to innings.

[Kwak]

 

We have different opinions of what "fine" is. For his first MLB start, it wasn't abysmal. But I don't think it warranted another start with other choices available on a team that was still in first place at the time.

It all comes back to the lack of direction by the front office from day one. They literally didn't decide if this team was a contender or not until July 29. All season long they have made moves that if taken by themselves indicate trying to contend. But there were others, like using Jorge, that indicate a rebuild effort. There was no cohesive plan that they stuck to.

No, from the beginning it was stated that the Twins are rebuilding--but promises were made (owner directives).  There was to be nothing resembling a massacre, Molitor was to remain, and his concerns about "lack of leadership" (rookies) was addressed by the addition of cheap veterans to the roster.  It was the (inexplicable) combination of a solid start (W/L record) by the Twins and the failure of Cleveland (or Detroit, Chicago, or KC) to have a strong start that made it appear that the Twins were "competitive".  Conversely, it was (finally!) determined that the Twins weren't "competitive" until after the All-Star break when the Twins tanked and Cleveland and KC had winning streaks.

 

The Felix Jorge situation was discussed last year and it was decided to put him on the 40-man roster--not because he was "ready", but because the fear was that he would be snatched in Rule 5 draft.  Other pitchers (and correctly so) were deemed "not at risk" in the Rule 5 draft and thus not added to the roster.  The fact that they are not presently added to the roster can be easily answered--"Why bother ?".  Might as well wait saving said option because this team is not competitive.

[yarnivek1972]

It comes back to roster decisions made last November. Literally, the first decisions made by Falvine. The decision was to start the offseason with only 8 starting pitchers on the 40 man (counting May AND Duffey) who had ever pitched above AA. Santana, Santiago, Hughes, Gibson, May, Mejia, Duffey and Berrios. Given the health and performances of those 8 in 2016, that was shortsighted to say the least. Injuries and unexpected poor performance are part of baseball. Although, I don't consider the poor performances by any of the pitchers to be "unexpected". Point being if your plan is to only use guys from the 40 man to help, you better be sure those guys CAN help.

 

Like I said, no plan from day one.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Sure, same here, in just not sure it mattered much. Either way, Romero wasn't going to play a key role this season due to innings.

Romero could have played a role this season, in the bullpen (if not in spot starts prior to the bullpen assignment too).

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Romero could have played a role this season, in the bullpen (if not in spot starts prior to the bullpen assignment too).

Yeah, possibly, but I think he's probably the highest ceiling guy in AA. While the bullpen help would have been nice, I prefer to keep him in the rotation and get him ready for 2018.

 

It's not as if the Twins didn't have other options. They simply chose not to really try any of them, which is frustrating.