The pursuit of a decent bullpen

[jimmer]

 

So, basically, management has however long it takes, and there should be zero expectation it takes less than 20 years?

 

Some of us think 5 of 6 years with 90+ losses is enough time.....some don't. The difference is, some are willing to set some timetable, and some seem to think the FO should have their job forever?

Hey, for me, it's 2025 or I'll start getting upset :-)

[Brandon Warne]

 

Kimbrel and Smith after the 2015 All Star game would have had the Twins in the post-season last season.

 

Assets?  Are you sure that those assets would have panned out?  I am not.  The Twins have a lot of "assets" who they hope to contribute some time tomorrow.  If you are working for tomorrow, you will never have anything today, other than "assets".  

 

Walker.  Melotakis.  Chargois. Reed. Meyer.   (Rosario.  Arcia.  Plouffe.  Dozier. Escobar)

 

Assets?

 

I'd rather have Kimbrel and Smith, thank you.

 

LOL. None of those guys have the kind of value needed to get Kimbrel. Or Smith, I would venture.

[Brandon Warne]

 

There were a number of Cishek proponents here, as well as Shawn Kelley.  I mentioned Benoit as a salary dump pickup; K-Rod was another.  Sadly I also mentioned Mark Lowe who currently sports a 10.71 ERA for Detroit, although his was a pretty modest commitment.  I believe MLBTR suggested Madson or Soria for us, both of whom proved to be expensive but seem to be settling in effectively now.

 

It seems those that focus primarily on Sipp and Bastardo were the ones who, like you, didn't think the pen needed much help -- the theory being that we had a lot of right-handers, and there weren't many good left-handers available.  But I think those that said we were shaky from either side have proven to be correct.

 

I was all in on Kelley. Cishek would have been fine, and I actually was hoping they'd have traded for him at the break last year. But even Cishek is up and down, with a ton of room for regression this season (walks, HR rate, BABIP AND strand rate). 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I was all in on Kelley. Cishek would have been fine, and I actually was hoping they'd have traded for him at the break last year. But even Cishek is up and down, with a ton of room for regression this season (walks, HR rate, BABIP AND strand rate). 

Cishek's BB rate is at his career average, and his HR rate is actually high this year, which might balance out some of his good BABIP/LOB luck.

 

And while he may not be perfect, he's helped Seattle and is an asset to them as they either hang in the race or look to sell. Which was exactly the stated goal for trying to find a quality veteran bullpen arm last winter.

[twinsnorth49]

Great idea. Give up your future for bullpen help on a team with a host of other needs for a team that still needs to grow-up a deep minor league system. Good god, no wonder some of you have problems with everything the FO does. I keep hearing the bullpen is not adequate for a contender. No $#!%. The problem with that logic is that this team was nowhere close to contending. Every sports writer who cared to predict the standings projected the team to finish last in the division. Yet, many of you want them to trade assets or commit to more long-term contracts. I repeat, no wonder you have a problem with every decision. You want it yesterday and rebuilding does not work that way unless perhaps you have a considerable revenue advantage.

Was trading Hu for Jepsen last season rebuilding or wanting it yesterday? I'm confused.

[alarp33]

 

Good god, no wonder some of  you have problems with everything the FO does.  I keep hearing the bullpen is not adequate for a contender.  No $#!%.  The problem with that logic is that this team was nowhere close to contending.  

 

April 4, 2016

 

“I do think we’re a playoff-caliber club,” Ryan said before Monday’s season opener at Camden Yards. “I don’t have any qualms to mention that. I just think this is a good ball club and we ought to be pointing toward that type of ceiling.”

 

“We need to go out and try to win this division,” he (Terry Ryan) said. “Not a wild-card spot. That’s dangerous. You’d like to make sure you at least get five games (in a playoff series) to go out and prove you’re that type of ball club. It’s a shame the (Pittsburgh) Pirates won 98 games last year and they were one and done.”

[Brandon Warne]

 

Cishek's BB rate is at his career average, and his HR rate is actually high this year, which might balance out some of his good BABIP/LOB luck.

 

And while he may not be perfect, he's helped Seattle and is an asset to them as they either hang in the race or look to sell. Which was exactly the stated goal for trying to find a quality veteran bullpen arm last winter.

 

Whoops, confused my regression(s) there on the HR rate. That would be, uh, a positive one. Still, for two years and $10 million I'd have given it a spin I think.

 

Edit:

Though, it's not like he put much of anything good together last year. Feels a little hindsight-y to me. 

[old nurse]

Cichek wanted to go somewhere where he could be a closer again. "We want you to be our closer" wins over "We want you to be our closer when Perk gets injured again"  Hard to fault the Twins on this one

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Whoops, confused my regression(s) there on the HR rate. That would be, uh, a positive one. Still, for two years and $10 million I'd have given it a spin I think.

 

Edit:

Though, it's not like he put much of anything good together last year. Feels a little hindsight-y to me. 

Of course Cishek scuffled last year.  That's why he was available for 2/10 in the first place.  He was a decent bounceback candidate, not old (just turned 30 this month), plus bonus "closer mojo."

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Twins had to sign a great reliever, coming off a definitively great season.  Just another higher-upside option to lessen our dependence on Perkins/Jepsen/May, and give us another potential asset if the we didn't contend this year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Cichek wanted to go somewhere where he could be a closer again. "We want you to be our closer" wins over "We want you to be our closer when Perk gets injured again"  Hard to fault the Twins on this one

Counting on Perkins to open 2016 was a pretty massive mistake on the Twins part.  If we liked Cishek, I absolutely would have given him the closer's spot to open the season if it meant landing him at the price the Mariners got him.  (In fact, many suggested that very option as it would have allowed Perkins to be a lefty setup option, if he rebounded, meaning we wouldn't need to sign Sipp/Bastardo or rely too much on Abad/Rogers.)

 

And of course, Cishek is just one of several examples of teams making modest FA reliever investments that pay off.  Pick a non-closer too like Kelley if you want.  The larger point against the Twins bullpen strategy remains.

[old nurse]

 

Counting on Perkins to open 2016 was a pretty massive mistake on the Twins part.  If we liked Cishek, I absolutely would have given him the closer's spot to open the season if it meant landing him at the price the Mariners got him.  (In fact, many suggested that very option as it would have allowed Perkins to be a lefty setup option, if he rebounded, meaning we wouldn't need to sign Sipp/Bastardo or rely too much on Abad/Rogers.)

 

And of course, Cishek is just one of several examples of teams making modest FA reliever investments that pay off.  Pick a non-closer too like Kelley if you want.  The larger point against the Twins bullpen strategy remains.

Would not argue that counting on Perkins would be a mistake.  It also wouldn't be unreasonable to think Cichek wasn't interested due to Perkins and being oblivious to injury history.